"Noor" wrote:

err hang one a minute, where have i said that? stop making stuff up. what i said was the idea that there has to be one khilafah and one amir in the ummah is a bidah. it has no basis in islam whatsoever.

A Khilafah would create unity and would be based on the Qur'an and Sunnah, so if re-establishing and having a Khilafah is a bidah, then isn't that the same as saying ruling based on the Qur'an and Sunnah is bidah?

When the Prophet (pbuh) established the Muslim state and was the leader, was there any other leader? Or when Abu Bakr (ra) or Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra) was the Caliph was there any other Caliph? No, there wasn't because there can only be ONE caliph. If it was a bidah and has no basis in Islam then why would the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) continue the trend. The Khilafah is not something ancient, it existed less than 90 years ago.

Btw is there a link to the lectures mentioned above?

Actually I found the article by Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. It was.... interesting to say the least. I bet that was where you got your info from. It contradicted certain things I read and heard but InshaAllah I'll look into them more.

For the people who normally don't like reading long post, please read this extract from the above Shaykh.

Quote:

[size=14][b]Islam is a complete code of life and, more than that, it is a complete system which has to be implemented. It prescribes the duties and obligations of all Muslims, the way they should relate to other people and groups, the rights of individuals and society as a whole, family law, criminal law including criminal penalties, civil law, public law, economic and fiscal law, and also the systems and establishment of the courts and institutions that are needed to administrate, implement and enforce these things. So Islam provides a complete code for each and every aspect of human life, both individual and collective. Historically speaking, Islam has always created complete societies and there are many places in the world today whose laws, commandments, instructions and guidance have been furnished by Islam. In such societies Islam does not only define internal laws but also defines the laws which govern their relationship with other nations: laws concerned with war, laws concerned with treaties, laws concerned with peace, and laws concerned with the right of the non-Muslim minority which live in an Islamic state. All of these things are defined by the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw).
All these laws need to be implemented, but implementation is not an individual matter and can only be carried out by an organised institution. This in turn necessitates the formation of such an institution to implement these rights and laws and this is known as Islamic governance. A form of governance has to be established in order to implement what has been revealed by Allah (swt), what has been communicated by the Holy Prophet (saw), and to fulfil all the various requirements of human society. This is the reason why the Holy Prophet emigrated to Madina. The thirteen years of his life as Prophet in Makka were spent in propagation, during which time he concentrated on preaching, spiritual training, spiritual purity, character building and preparing a community of strong believers. When, however, he migrated to Madina the first thing he did was establish Islamic governance.
This type of social organisation was needed to deal with matters of war. If an enemy attacks a Muslim community living in any place, they must be able to defend themselves and for this they need an army which must be organised and paid for. All these functions have to be carried out by a government and show the necessity of establishing such an institution. The same applies to all human communities. The establishment of a government is a common need for all societies whether Muslim or non-Muslim. So Islam also recommends, approves and agrees with this and recognises that Islamic governance is needed and also that there can be no Islamic state or Islamic government without a leader. The state and government needs a head who may be called by any one of many names as mentioned previously.
This whole phenomenon and philosophy is summed up in the hadith mentioned earlier, sometimes referred to as an athar (tradition), in which Sayyiduna Umar (ra) said, “There is no Islam without community (jama’ah), and there is no community without (Imarah) and there is no leadership (Imarah) without obedience (ta’ah).” The words “There is no Islam…” mean there could be no enforcement of Islam, no existence of Islam as a system, without jama’ah and jama’ah means a community and is in essence an organised society known as a state. It is an organised society fulfilling certain characteristics and conditions under the authority of a government. There is no true existence of Islam without this jama’ah.
The words “…and there is no jama’ah (community) without Imarah (leadership)…” mean there can be no organised society, no governance, without a leader. The community must be headed by someone: there must be someone working as the leader and head of the community. In the word jama’ah we find the concept of the Islamic state and in the word Imarah lies the concept of Amir or khalifah, the Islamic leader.
The words “…and there is no Imarah (leadership) without ta’ah (obedience),” show that Islamic leadership involves the obedience of the Muslims to that leadership. The leader may be called chief executive or Amir – as we have seen the name given to him is unimportant – but he is owed the obedience of the Muslim community. By definition he is the superior and the people are subordinate to him. There is a relationship between them of Hakim (ruler) and mahkum (ruled) but he will be asked about his people and his society because he is responsible for all their affairs.
This is the concept of jama’ah (organised society) in Islam and it protects the rights, benefits and interests of the whole community: the whole system provides a guarantee of the rights of all its members. The purpose of the whole thing is the harmonious cohesion of the political body of Islam. It says in the Qur’an in Surah al-Imran:

Hold fast to the rope of Allah (swt) all together, and do not separate. (3; 103)

This has two meanings. Firstly it is an instruction to the whole Muslim ummah to avoid splitting up and sectarianism and instead be united and remain a cohesive unit. The Holy Prophet said, “It is incumbent on you to be attached to the jama’ah and always avoid becoming separated from it.” In this hadith, the Holy Prophet is advising us to avoid being alone and not to get detached from the jama’ah, from the collective existence of the Muslim community. Indeed one of the primary concerns of the Holy Prophet was iltizamu’l-jama’ah – to maintain, protect and promote an organised collective society – and he consolidated this by establishing the Islamic state of Madina, giving it a written constitution called Mithaqu’l-Madina.
This constitution was given to Madina and the society of Madina was organised according to it and the Holy Prophet was declared to be its leader.[/b][/size]

"Noor" wrote:

now when you say there should be one amir, do you mean one amir for the entire ummah or for A khilafah?

I'll look into this more and will take the Shaykh's answer into consideration. There's some bits of the Khilafah even I'm unsure about.

I was @ the Romford rd. mosque yesterday, inshaAllah I'll pick it up.

The USA's National Intelligence Council (NIC), a CIA think-tank, has taken the idea of the restoration of the Caliphate seriously enough to include as one of four possible scenarios in its 2020 Project report, 'Mapping the Global Future.'

Quote:

A New Caliphate provides an example of how a global movement fueled by radical religious identity politics could constitute a challenge to Western norms and values as the foundation of the global system.

Quote:

The spread of radical Islam will have a significant global impact leading to 2020, rallying disparate ethnic and national groups and perhaps even creating an authority that transcends national boundaries. Part of the appeal of radical Islam involves its call for a return by Muslims to earlier roots when Islamic civilization was at the forefront of global change. The collective feelings of alienation and estrangement which radical Islam draws upon are unlikely to dissipate until the Muslim world again appears to be more fully integrated into the world economy.

Quote:

- A Caliphate would not have to be entirely successful for it to present a serious challenge to the international order. This scenario underlines the saliency of the cross-cultural ideological debate that would intensify with growing religious identities.
- The IT revolution is likely to amplify the clash between Western and Muslim world.
- The appeal of a Caliphate among Muslims would vary from region to region, which argues for Western countries adopting a differentiated approach to counter it. Muslims in regions benefiting from globalisation, such as parts of Asia and Europe, may be torn between the idea of a spiritual Caliphate and the material advantages of a globalized world.

Hmmm.... interesting. Very interesting indeed.

"Beast" wrote:

You forgot add the bit at the end.

Quote:

The proclamation of a Caliphate would not lessen the likelihood of terrorism and, in fomenting more conflict, could fuel a new generation of terrorists intent on attacking those opposed to the Caliphate, whether inside or outside the Muslim world.

Sorry, should have added this bit. The West would love this because they have attacked the Caliphate time and time again and they would use this as an excuse by arguing against a Caliphate. Call me ignorant but I learned this recently, that Al-Qaeda actually want a Khilafah. Good on them, but not sure about their tactics.

@Noor - I don't think attack is the right word to use, I'm actually grateful. Even if you don't believe in one Amir, you do believe that there should be a Khilafah?

"Noor" wrote:

we can come to conclusion that the concept of having one amir in the ummah has no basis in islam whatsoever.

As I said to you, I'm still unsure about this. But the Shaykh's answer seems to prove you right.

"Noor" wrote:

of course i believe that there should be islamic stateS but do i believe its fardh? no, the prophet saw left this matter to ijtihad and not with a time limit. that prophet saw also accepted the concept of types of governance other than khilafah, showing us that the basic purpose was to establish islamic governance regardless of the term used.

Whatever the terminology used, the basic concept of the Quran is that Islamic governence is established. So a state/nation/khilafah (whatever you want to call it) is ruled WITHOUT contradicting the Quran and Sunnah. I believe this to be the general consensus.

@Beast: I have asked the brother to provide me with all the evidence he can, to argue his case for a Khilafah with only one amir. The matter is out of my hands so I'll only post the evidence when I get it. Please be patient. I am also abit unsure like you are but I think the general consensus is what I said above.

Just to quote (again) the above Shaykh.

Quote:

[b]All of these things (laws) are defined by the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw).
All these laws need to be implemented, but implementation is not an individual matter and can only be carried out by an organised institution. This in turn necessitates the formation of such an institution to implement these rights and laws and this is known as Islamic governance. A form of governance has to be established in order to implement what has been revealed by Allah (swt), what has been communicated by the Holy Prophet (saw), and to fulfil all the various requirements of human society.[/b]

Another quote from the same Shaykh.

Quote:

[b]The establishment of a government is a common need for all societies whether Muslim or non-Muslim. So Islam also recommends, approves and agrees with this and recognises that Islamic governance is needed and also that there can be no Islamic state or Islamic government without a leader. The state and government needs a head who may be called by any one of many names as mentioned previously.[/b]

@Noor: What don't you understand?