This is not only a problem with Pakistan, people in Bangladesh are willing to kill someone or even die for their political party. Same with other places which I won't mention. If only people realised that having this western style of democracy won't bring peace.
If people could spent their time/effort and were willing to die for Allah (swt) cause. Which is to re-establish a Khalifah and live under rules which Allah (swt) has prescribed. We should be willing, and should [i]want[/i] to live under a Khalifah but people are busy with this so called democracy which the west has imposed in the Muslim lands.
[b]EDIT: Split from Pakistan/Benazir thread ------------ NewModOnTheBlock[/b]
you been hanging around with the ht crew msbro?
j/k
so how do we establish khilafah? by what means?
lesser? him and the intelligence people are resonsible for taking her out
they hosed out all the evidence with water and then later said it was a mistake....geniuses
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
You have been hanging around with them, haven't you? No j/k
Between Bhutto, Nawa Sharif & Musharaff... id rather vote for Musharaff. He's the only one whose not been accused of being corrupt. Nor has he stole from the nation. Even tho i may disagree with alot of his actions... id rather he was in power than either of the other two muppets.
Back in BLACK
Salam
Thats like saying President Bush was the only one supporting
human rights even though he tortured innocent
prisoners in American jails.
I rest my case.
Omrow
So people are happy with the current situation and are not willing to change it? They prefer to live under this so-called 'democracy'? They don't want to be governed under the rules Allah (swt) has set out. They don't want to be ruled over using the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Allah (swt) [i]wants[/i] us to re-establish a Khilafah, but alot of people think otherwise. They think they don't have to do anything because Imam Mahdi/Isa (as) will come and sort everything out. That's one of the biggest misconceptions.
Whos going to lead this khilafah?
In order to build a strong house you require strong bricks if you have weak bricks your house wont be very strong the same applies to establishing a khilafah.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
so how do we go about re establishing khilafah then? what can we do? everyone bangs on about it but whose doing anything to bring back khilafah? a few marches here and there is not gona bring back khilafah.
I agree with noor and whos going to lead this khilafah?
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Or maybe look at it this way.
First you build the house, then you lay the pipes, cables, then you bring the furniture in. The Ummah hasn't even established a Khilafah and you're thinking about who the Caliph will be.... it certainly won't be Hosni Mubarak or Pervez Musharraf.
Fact is, Allah (swt) has already promised us Imam Mahdi and that he will come after a Khilafah has been re-established and will be the Caliph. So isn't it our duty as Muslims to re-establish a Khilafah first? Even if we don't do anything (to re-establish a Khilafah) there will always be a group of people who are. So it doesn't matter to Allah (swt) whether we do or do not do anything because a Khilafah WILL be re-established. Thing is we need Allah (swt) but He doesn't need us. So before we are accounted on the Day of Judgement, we should do something, even if a Khilafah isn't re-established in our lifetime.
@You (and Beast) - InshaAllah I'll get you the Quranic verses and Hadith's.
@Noor - so we do nothing and expect a Khilafah will just miraculously appear?
What if the house is weak all the piping goes kaput, if the khilafah is weak how will it suceed and will muslims follow its ruling? I hear these HT ideas all the time and sometimes i dont think they think it through.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
you're not answering my question muslimbro. what can we do in order to bring back khilafah? you're saying how we should all work to bring back the state but what do you mean by work? do you mean by going on demos, marching, joining ht? i dont get you.
@Irfan - So what are you saying?
A Khilafah will not exist? A Khilafah shouldn't exist?
@Noor - Give me a few days to gather up the evidence (Quranic verses and Hadiths) along with what we should be doing and I'll give you a more comprehensive answer.
one question, have you been hanging around with the ht crew?
What im saying is that our current situation and time introducing a khilafah might not work because we as muslims are "all over the show", of course i want a khilafah what kind of stupid question is that? all im saying is that we need the muslims to strengthen to build a khilafah.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
I think he is Ht
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
Some things are for certain: the Muslim world should not be divided into nation states, each with its own corrupt leadership and social injustices. There should not be fighting between Muslims over political power and Muslims should not have greater loyalty to non-Muslims for political reasons: e.g. Bangladesh siding with India to fight against Pakistan or Saudi Arabia giving more money in aid to America after Hurricane Katrina than they did to the Muslim countries after the big Tsunami.
"Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith." (Muslim)
Don't just do something! Stand there.
Don't be silly. You don't have to be a member of HT to believe that a Khilafah has to be re-established.
Thing is there won't be unity between Muslims if there's several leaders, there should only be one. This has been said by the companions of the Prophet (pbuh).
there is not one hadith to say the prophet saw said that there can only be one amir for the world. during the time of the prophet saw there was another state as well as the state in madinah and the prophet saw accepted it (abu basir & abu jandal). during the khilafah of hazrat abbas ra, abu jafar al mansur established his own government. back in islamic history there were islamic states all over the world, in year 325 ah, abdar rahman was the khilafah in spain and at the same time, in baghdad, razibillah was the khilafah. islamic scholars have accepted all them to be proper islamic authorities. this idea of having one leader is the biggest bidah ever!
'if people starting making bayat with two different khilafahs kill the second to make unity'
note, in the hadith, does the prophet saw mention the whole world? the word world is not use nor is this hadith refering to the ummah. the hadith is refering to a situation where some have made bayat with one khilafah and some with another khilafah. this can be understood through another hadith, 'if someone comes to you and you have already agreed on the imarah of a particular man and have become unified through that, and he wants to create disunity in your jama'ah, you should kill him'. jam'ah and ummah are two separate things.
the prophet saw didnt say anything about being one khilafah n that if there is another, he should be killed. but if there is an amir and some comes and challenges this unity then one should be killed. when the prophet saw established the state in madinah, he didnt say i have established khilafah for the world.
if there ever was such a thing that there should be one amir for the ummah, wouldn't it contradict the hadith where the prophet saw says if there is 3 of u on a journey, appoint one as the ameer? the prophet saw allowed his ummah to establish imarah when there are only 3 people, so how it possibly be that the whole ummah of islam with a population of 1.25 b should be limited to one amir?
@ admin: can u create a separte thread plz. shukran.
Also, why does this Khilafah have to be all imperial looking?
If the OIC was given a little more power (like the EU) and renamed, would it suffice?
(Unlike others (which may or may not be), this is not a dig...)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Why would the Prophet (pbuh) say that? coz Islam wasn't as spread out as it is today. And fact is the Prophet (pbuh) was the ONLY leader.
I am shocked that you think creating unity among the ummah, and ruling based on the Quran and Sunnah is a bidah. May Allah (swt) forgive you.
In the meantime, please read this, or atleast the relevant bits.
[url]http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/images/DawahToIslm.pdf[/url]
Easy now. She never said anything about Muslim unity or ruling by Quran or Sunnah being bidah.
Do you have any none-HT sources?
i would suggest to those of you who can, listen to Shaykh ul Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir ul Qadris lecture called 'the islamic state' it is very comprehensive and will answer your questions. there is also a booklet that has been produced from those lectures called 'the islamic state-true concept and eradicating misconceptions', it is free and should be available from the nearest minhaj centre. both deal with what a khilafah is, its structure and many other issues in the light of the Qur'an and the Sunnah.
just quoting some parts of the booklet:
[b]it is narrated in tirmidhi, book of fitn, ch. of khulafah No. 2226. Musnad of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal vol. 5, pg 220 no 21816. Sunan of Abu Dawud, book of sunnah ch. khulafah no 4646
the Prophet
said: The khilafah in my Ummah will only last for thirty years and then it will become a mulk (nations/monarchy)[/b]
[b]Qur’an: ‘we have made you into tribes and nations so that you may know each other’[/b]
‘if anyone abandons ta’ah (obedience to the legitimate Islamic authority) he will go in front of almighty Allah on the day of judgement without any dalil (evidence from the shariah) and if he dies without bay’at, then his death will be a death of ignorance’ (Muslim)
‘There is a misconception amongst the muslim youth that there should be only one khilafah, a single leader of the ummah. This is in fact a misinterpretation of the Prophet
hadith. This hadith applies to any situation in which a group of muslims unite and appoint a leader as the Prophet 
said even if there are three of you one of them should be appointed leader. What this hadith means that if a number of muslims unite and agree on a leader and make a bay’at of obedience to the head of that grouping, regardless of its size, if any of them were to rebel against that leader and claim to be amir, that rebellion would amount to treason. It does not mean that it is not permissible to have two leaders. That only applied at the time of the khulafa ar rashideen. [b]There is no hadith stating that there should only be one amir in the whole world, from the east to the west and that there cannot be two.’[/b]
[b]‘if people start making bay’at with two different khalifahs kill the second one (to maintain unity)’ where is the word world mentioned?[/b]
'To cure sometimes, to relieve often, to comfort always'
Alexis Carrel (French Surgeon)
Does it not contain references to Hadith and Quranic verses?
Obviously not everyone agrees with the idea of a Khilafah.
Does it give both sides of the argument from a non-bias point of view?
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
There are many issues where the Muslim Ummah, including scholars differ. To give you one such example. Some say alcohol in cosmetic products is haram and wearing them would make your prayers void, and others say the opposite. The people (including scholars) who truly believe that alcohol would void your prayers, would they suddenly say that hang on, maybe it wouldn't void your prayers. They wouldn't give you both sides of the arguments would they. Same with the issue of music.
Thats not showing both sides of the argument is it? they could show both sides and then give a conclusion in favour of one side. Showing both sides of your argument doesnt mean being mediaocre in your view.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...
When I said in another thread that I had not read any scholarly opinions on the issue of the restoration of the Caliphate I meant I had not come across any non-HT opinions on the restoration of the Caliphate.
Some non-HT sources would be more convincing and credible. If you're relying solely on HT sources then there is an issue of bias.
BTW the pdf you linked to is about the HT take on how the Caliphate should be restored. It is not about why.
its not about agreeing or disagreeing about the subject for the sake of it. its about looking at both sides of the argument in the light of Qur'an and the Hadith. it is not only a matter of reading the translations of some Hadith and applying them to a subject, Usool ul hadith and usool of tafsir have to be used.
the lecture gives both sides of the argument, explaining references used by both sides. one can only make their mind up after listening to both sides, i should know my uncle is in the inner circles of HT (and is well versed in his argument) and i am a member of Minhaj ul Quran, therefore i listened to both sides of the argument with an open mind and made my own decision.
i am not against the concept establishing khilafah in every muslim state, i only disagree with the fact that khilafah does not mean that only one amir can be appointed as a global system. Also by establishing khilafah we can only establish the system, we cannot continue the khilafat of the khulafa e rashideen, as some people think.
'To cure sometimes, to relieve often, to comfort always'
Alexis Carrel (French Surgeon)
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