Assalamu Alaykum,

I was reading through this thread and I noticed that some of us kinda missed the point.

Nationalism is Haram for two reasons. The first is the Ahadith that refer to it and forbid it, and the second is from the very nature of current-day nationalism.

The Ahadith that forbid nationalism are many. The most famous of them (and the one most commonly used by scholars when referring to the group of Ahadith) is when the Ansaar (Al-Aws and Al-Khazraj) began bickering about who is better. This fighting was incited by one of the Munafiqeen (hypocrites) of the time.

Their bickering escalated until they even drew their swords. When the Prophet heard about this, he came running and was very very angry with them. He made them march for hours on end until they were exhausted. During this he gave them a very harsh lecture, in it he said (in translation of the meaning): "Leave it (nationalism), for it is filthy/rotten!" (in Arabic: Da'uuha, Fa'innaha Muntinah).

Now the proof that he was not simply referring to "racism" alone, is that they were both Arab tribes, and were the same color, language and race, but they were fighting over who was better according to their SIDE of the city: political division.

Therefore the Prophet forbade dividing ourselves according to political lines, and referred to the emotions that are drawn from these political divides (patriotism/nationalism) as "filthy/rotten", which indicate impermissibility (Haram).

As for the nature of these flags, I am surprised that it is not already blatantly obvious what is wrong with them. Who drew these flags? Who drew these lines? Was it not the likes of Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot (who formed the famous Sykes-Picot agreement that divided the Muslim lands)? If you don't know them...read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes-Picot_Agreement

These people, after destroying the Islamic State and destroying our unity completely, worked very hard to make the division permanent, which they achieved by creating national borders, national flags, and rediculous national anthems. And it worked.

We have killed each other over these lines. We have hated each other over these lines. We have abandoned each other over these disgusting and dispicable lines: Iraq and Iran. Pakistan and Afghanistan. Jordan and Palestine. Palestine and everyone. Algeria and Morrocco. Ethiopia and Sudan. Ethiopia and Eritrea. The list is almost endless.

These flags were drawn by our worst enemies. These flags are the very symbol of our division and our abandoning Islam.

The only flags legislated by Islam are the Raya and the Liwaa'. Both were used by the Prophet and are explicit in the Ahadith. The Raya is the black flag with white letters of the "Shahada" on it (for use during wartime), and the Liwaa' is the white flag with black text of the "Shahada" on it (for use within the State).

I hope this helps.

wal Salamu Alaykum.

Currently we do not need states to make us squabble.

Anything will do.

Let's keep talk of Nationalism in a diferent topic (start it if you must), and this one on flags/symbols.

Quote:

The only flags legislated by Islam are the Raya and the Liwaa'. Both were used by the Prophet and are explicit in the Ahadith. The Raya is the black flag with white letters of the "Shahada" on it (for use during wartime), and the Liwaa' is the white flag with black text of the "Shahada" on it (for use within the State).

That actually goes the other way as it shows flags being used, not being banned.

Nice to know they have names.

Assalamu Alaykum,

No one said that flags are forbidden. Who said that? Flags are explicitly used in the life of the Prophet (saw), the Sahaba, the Tabi'een, the Atbaa' At-Tabi'een, and the history of the Khilafah. They all used the same flags I mentioned earlier (Raya and Liwaa').

The question is the [u]content[/u] of the flags and the [u]content[/u] of the symbols.

If a mosque flys the flag of a certain country on it, the problem is what the flag represents, not the cloth itself.

Either I missed the point, or you did...lol.

wal Salamu Alaykum.

"Mazin" wrote:

No one said that flags are forbidden. Who said that?

The question is the content of the flags and the content of the symbols.

If a mosque flys the flag of a certain country on it, the problem is what the flag represents, not the cloth itself.

Either I missed the point, or you did...lol.

It is not a subject that really interests me too much.

I was originally arguing that one cannot say someone else should provide proof, then make a verdict yourself with no proof.

The actual topic was just a sideshow. One which would avoid hard feelings as none of us are auussies to my knowledge. Not that I got anything against them, apart from that terrible terrible accent