Arranged marraiges is legalised prostitution in my opinion. How far do you agree.
I was tempted to do my third year dissertation project on this topic. This is the way them.
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sorry dont agree..........if that statement is meant to apply that love marriages without parents consent is the only proper marriage, then it aint true
forced marriages - yes you can argue then
but arranged is different, an arrangement always requires two parties to agree.....you and ur parents
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
I disagree. In arranged marraiges the whole family is there and the girl is expected to do her thing-come dressed up serving the stupid tea and the boy makes the decision based on how she looks.
This is degrading. What is the difference between this and legalised prostitution?
Assalamu Alaikum,
I think you're confusing "arranged marriages" with "forced marriages".
"Arranged marriages" occur not just amongst asian people, but many other ethnic origins aswell. The parents/guardian act as a medium to arrange the wedding, and match couples together. Essentially it is up to the man and the woman to accept or decline. No one is compelled against their own wishes. In fact couples consent to this particular method of marrying. Nothing is done under duress. Sometimes a woman herself suggests a person she has in mind and the parents act as the middlemen if you like to arrange the meetings and if she wishes the actual wedding ceremony.
However "forced marriages" are those where the woman or the man is given no choice. It is easily mistaken for an arranged marriage, because it can start out under the guise of one. i.e the parents may tell their daughter we have a man we want you to meet. There's no pressure just see if you like him, we'll take it from there. The daughter agrees thinking she has a choice, only to later be emotionally blackmailed into accepting the match, or being literally forced. There is a clear difference although it may be very subtle to some individuals.
The arranged marriage is the method which has been sanctioned as the permitted way for believing muslim men and women to marry. To suggest it's tantamount to rape is a completely wrong analysis, and is highly offensive, to not only muslims but other races and cultures. i.e Aisha (ra) had her marriage "arranged". Khadijah (ra) may have instigated the proposal but she had her marriage arranged also. Our prophet
had all his marriages "arranged" via third parties.
I asked my parents to arrange my marriage. I suggested a few ppl and i was willing to meet anyone suitable they had in mind. I married using this method. It's a perfectly modest, and decent way to marry. How does rape come into it? They are just a few obvious examples.
Bottom line in arranged marriages no one is compelled to marry, in forced marriages they are there is a huge gulf between the two.
Ramz im struggling to make the connection that arranged marriages are same as legalised prostitution.
Legalised prostitution is when someone gives money to another for s##
Arranged marriages although flawed by pakistani cultural practices, is a perfectly legitamate form of marriage if conducted according to the rules of islam.
yes your right usaully the guy does make the decision based on how the girl looks but so should the girl, i mean attraction is a vital factor in a successful marriage. Although i personally think its the personalities that make a marriage successful attraction does play a big part.
Arranged marriages process is flawed in that usaully the women may not have much of a say, the marriage has to be between cousins/same caste/race so theres extra pressure ect, however this is not according to islam.
In addition i can see that there are not much subtitute to arranged marriage that are islamically legal, if for example someone is a orphan or does not have family ties or doesnt like their cousins or trust their parents choice , they are sometimes drawn to find their own wives or husband
if you do not agree with arranged marraige then what are the other options, dating, girlfreind, love marraige = does this really work, its a fact arranged marraiges last longer than love marraiges
Im sure it would make an interesting desertation but im sure you would fail to find evidence and state the claim that arranged marriage is legalised prostitution.
all these things about having to marry ones cousins, or same cast ,race, not being able to openly speak with the guy are aspects of cultural baggage. They don't actually have anything to do with the concept of arranged marriages as put forward in Islam. It's not arranged marriages at fault here once again it's cultural practises, lets be clear on that.
I actually got to speak to my husband to be, with one mahram present, not a roomful. So i was at ease. And i had more than just one meeting with him. So it wasn't as if i never knew him at all. Taking in tea all dolled up is something prevalent in indian communities, and has apparently rubbed off onto bengalis and pakistanis :?
Physical attractiveness is a factor in any marriage. Arranged or otherwise. I don't believe ppl like myself who have chosen to have arranged marriages chose our partners simply because of their outer appearances. Most ppl are not that shallow. Besides if it's arranged and the girl doesn't find the guy attractive she too has the right to reject him. One meeting in this manner doesn't mean you're obliged to marry anyone. It's just that a "meeting", not acceptance.
Those who have no family to speak of are supposed to seek out "guardians" such as respectable or pious ppl in the community to act as their mahrams. No ones saying this would be easy, but those who value their faith will do this. I know two girls who have mothers but no fathers. You often need a male guardian to arrange certain aspects of the wedding. So they had elders in the community take on this role. So it's not impossible.
Like nas said what other option is there for muslims. Dating is never an option.
I don't agree with that...and I can see why that would be degrading. But I didnt think this happened anymore..?
Only the other day my bengali mate told me that apparently in her family she's not even allowed to talk to prospective suitors in the prescence of family... :?
i've never seen Bengalis going in dolled up with tea trays. Much the opposite dolled up looking down. Not allowed to speak as you said. Except to confirm her name, village back home,education. small talk. In a room full of ppl, mostly men who she doesn't know.
They're all cultural aspects though. It really gets on my nerves how it's perceived to be part of an "arranged marriage" as dictated by our faith???!
When my husband to be came to see me with his family they gave me clothes and a ring. Well normally in bengali tradition you have to wear that stuff and come down to pose with modesty of course, head down :roll: But i refused to. I had taken time getting my headscarf and jilbab on. I simply said if you want me to wear those glitsy clothes my jilbab will still go on top of it, coz i'm not showing myself off to a room full of strange men. Have they all come to marry me? Some of the female family members were annoyed with me. But there were no complaints by the grooms side when i appeared in my regular clothing.
I may get attacked for this but i don't think, you can be forced in this country, i don't buy that argument anymore, do you? Had you been in india, pakistan, Africa etc, with none of your normal connections then i could see possibility for force. But in this country things have changed. Girls who stay quiet just to please their parents are doing no favours for their own happiness.
:shock:
there's a LOT of diff
what a weirdo :roll:
LOL, think u pretty much summed it up....What kinda retarded views has this lady got? legal prostitution? Wat a freakin joke
_____________- -SupeRazor- -_______________
Some ppl make their goals the stars.
They may live n die n never reach the stars,
but in the darkness of the night, those stars will guide them to their destination.
Becuz they made them in their eyesight
:roll: guys, come on, you're not helping here. :?
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
i kno there are a lot of things wrong with the traditional arranged marriage scene
and i also dont agree with being tarted up and serving tea to everyone
but comparing it too "legalised prostitution" is too much
i agree, but u should've said that the first time round instead of attacking Ramz.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
aye
with her rishta-seeking problem the 'desi' style, you can understand why she feels that way, even tho i dont agree
her personal situation shouldnt cloud her view on arranged marriages
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
'Dating' is abuse.
and love is an illusion.
your point?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
by saying someone has retarded views or that they are wierd is insulting rather than debating maybe you should avoid this roll ?
However It is known shias have a custom of repeatedly getting married or temporary marriage , e.g a shia man may marry a bride for say two weeks for a dowry then divorce her and get married again.
Also i know many a cases where a young girl from a poor family in pakistan marries a man about 30yrs older than her for a large dowry, it is not forced as she says yes to it, however theres extremem pressure on her.
Although i totally disagree with ramz statement as i said before, im interested to hear more to why you have come to such as a dramatic comparison ramz ?
i was gonna say that when i first saw the title of this thread i assumed it was going to be about Mut'ah, the shi'a practice of 'temporary marriage', because sunnis call it 'legalised prostitution'. but u have misconstrued it nas - the man does not divorce the woman, they have a nikah 'contract' like most stating the dowry, the major difference being that this contract also states how long they have agreed to be married for. :roll:
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
Salam
He is a victim of prejudice.
Naturally, he would never say that in a so called "love" marriage,
making your own selection can be seen as a private visit to the brothel.
That is exactly what people do there.
Omrow
woah thats bad :shock: and i can see why muslims may call it prostitution , im a little confused what if the contract is for say 1 month and the women gets pregnant will the father still leave after the month or is the contract void with children, otherwise they will be alot of shia fatherless children around :?
Thedivorce period is a minimum of three months... I assume that even in the shia mut'ah that would apply?
(and divorce period is extended till birth in cases of pregnancy in traditional divorce... again I would assume the same there...)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I think he's just confused full stop. Never heard such nonsense. MARRIAGE is not akin to prostitution.
The media, government, tried to blow us, but they can't out the flame, or doubt the name.
you mean SHE.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
she said sumin too huge to overlook
BEAR ppl get HAPPILY married via the arranged marraige process-IMO its just like a blind date
calling the girls who go thru this process as "prostitutes" (which she indirectly done) is WRONG :evil:
pagaaaaaaaaaaaaaaliiiiii
Learn To Love The People Who Are Willing To Love You At Present. Forget The People In The Past & Thank Them For Hurting You, Which Lead You To Love The People You Have Right Now..
Name calling aint appropriate Rubz you shud know better.
Even if the comment is as warped as that.
Marriage is like an institution that have to live in but want to leave. But people go into it with their own free will(or shud) anything... and if they get a little action thats a plus.
Back in BLACK
yea i think the minimum for a mut'ah contract is 3 months, not so sure about cases of pregnancy though, i can find out.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
So Sowi but thats the first word that came to my mind after reading the title and Im an open person I cant help it, sowi once again.
Learn To Love The People Who Are Willing To Love You At Present. Forget The People In The Past & Thank Them For Hurting You, Which Lead You To Love The People You Have Right Now..
Dont apologise RuBz
Live and learn
Change for the better
Back in BLACK
[color=red][/color]
This seems all very sad for the woman if she falls pregnant too, as the husband has no obligation at all to marry her!!!
As-Salaamu `alaykum wa RaHmatullaahi `Azzawa Jaal wa Baarakaatuh!
:shock: I also thought this might be a debate with regards to the rawaafidh Shi'ah mut`ah marriage! I think everyone here may possibly be a little confused about the mut`ah concept... By the way, you can chill out, I am not a Shi'i I am a Muslim of the Hanafi madhHab and reverted to Islaam around 3 years ago, al-Hamd-ul-Illaah! Since then, I have studied such a HUGE amount about Islaam that I NEVER thought it possible for a human to be able to learn so much, SubhaanAllaah!
Okay, let me attempt to clarify something here, insha'Allaah. mut`ah nikah according to the rawaafidh Shi'ah:
Mut`ah is a contracted marriage in which there is absolutely no divorce at all and this, as correctly stated by the sister in the forum, is due to the fact that the period of time the marriage will last is decided before the marriage takes place! Basically, many Shi'ah dispute the issue of mut`ah, but according to their most famous scholars and ahaadiith books such as al-kaafi by Ya'qub al-Kulayni they can marry from anything between 3 hours and 99 years. I can post a Shi'ah website link regarding mut`ah if you want to clarify this issue. I view mut`ah, the way the rawaafidh Shi'ah see it, as prostitution to the extreme. The ahaadiith of the rawaafidh Shi'ah and their scholars' writings state such things as "...the female in mut`ah is a commodity...", "...the woman is a property in mut`ah, to be enjoyed...", Astaghfirullaah!!! This is prostituion without a doubt! Their traditions and their scholars state such things as: when the couple engage in sexual activity the male must pay her for each encounter, and that when they have finished and make ghusul their sins drip away with each drop of water that runs from their bodies, Astaghfirullaah!!!
I would like to also add that the word "mut`ah" in Arabic means "pleasure", so "mut`ah nikah" means "pleasure marriage". However, it MUST be made absolutely clear that mut`ah as viewed by the rawaafidh Shi'ah and mut`ah as once allowed for only the 3 days of the battle of Khaibar by the Prophet, SallAllaahu `alayhi wa Sallam, are TOTALLY different and based on different matters of ijtihaad!
Mut`ah as once allowed by our beloved Prophet was a matter of ijtihaad and was only made permissible for specifically the SaHaaba who attended the battle of Khaibar and who approached the Prophet stating that they were so desperate to take a woman for their pleasure that they were even willing to castrate themselves for their fear of doing wrong and evil activities that would be hated in the sight of Allaah and in the sight of the Prophet. Based on this, the Prophet told them they may take a wife of the captive women of the Jews for their pleasure as long as she agrees to it and is paid her dowry. After the 3 day battle, the Prophet ordered those SaHaaba to release those women and if they saw fit, to pay them an extra dowry for the fact that they were releasing them from marriage. This may have been before the Prophet recieved revelation that the Muslims were allowed to marry those of the Jews and Christians that were not polytheists (not the trinitarian Christians, but the Ahlil-Kitaab Christians such as the Jehovas Witnesses today who don't say that `Isa - `alayhi Salaam - is God, Astaghfirullaah). Since the end of the battle of Khaibar, the Prophet made mut`ah haram for Muslims, NOT just mukruh!!! It may well have been at this point that the Prophet had recieved revelation that it is permissible for Muslim men to marry women of Ahlil-Kitaab (non-polytheist Christians as well as Jews), Allaahu allim - you should check SaHiih Muslim and SaHiih al-Bukhari accompanied by FatH al-Baari by ibni Hajar for the answers to this, insha'Allaah, along with the tafsiirs of the Qur'aan verses pertaining to this! It is vitally important that you never assume the meanings or even the current standing of even the SaHiih AHaadiith without checking such writings as FatH al-Baari, insha'Allaah, as this is a BIG mistake made by many Muslims today, such as many who follow the WaHaabi MadhHab (academically it is very easily arguable and easily proven that the so-called Salafi ManHaj is DEFINITELY a madhHab and is new and certainly NOT free of bid`ah and mistakes, hence my choice to adhere to the earliest fiqh system of Islamic history, al-Hamd-ul-Illaah).
We should all remember, insha'Allaah, that to become one of the ZaHaariyyah (litteralists) and with no knowledge of how to determine Shar'i rulings from Qur'aan and Sunnah respectively to the methodology of the famous 4 imaams, RadhiyAllaahu `anhum war-RaHmatullaah, and therby neglecting following ONE of the 4 is a VERY DANGEROUS move to make! NO scholar today can POSSIBLY even CLAIM to have more or even equivalent knowledge or piety to those 4, SuBhaanAllaahi `Azzawa Jaal!!! Any scholar who even claims so today is, in my opinion, a totally misguided and foolish, arrogant person who is calling people to his own misguidance, Allaahu allim - but I am sure this is true of a certainty!!! How can such people claim that taqliid means a'maa (blind)? How can they claim that it is haram to give taqliid (following) concerning one of the 4 original madhaaHib, yet they themselves give almost 100% a'maa taqliid to people such as al-Albaani and `Uthaymiin, who often fail to quote referrences, and other so-called scholars who say "Al-Albaani said this, al-Albaani said that......." with NO referrences to the original source nor to anything such as FatH al-Baari or anything even like it???????? What an outrageous and spurious claim to make, Allaahu Akbar!!! :shock: LOOOOL, sorry for suddenly changing the subject, but I really think this last part has huge relevance with regards to what I have stated in this thread!!! I hope I haven't offended anyone, insha'Allaah, I still regard WaHabis as my brothers and sisters in Islaam, but I am more than certain that the WaHabi MadhHab is unjustly named after the Salaf and that there are MANY huge deviancies within it with regards to the true Islaam and true Islamic attitude and stances! Anyhow, let me please end by stating, insha'Allaah, that I am shocked by some of the ludicrous remarks made by a minority in this thread so far (no names mentioned - lol) and really do suggest that this person/these people (you know who you are) seek/s some REAL Islamic knowledge. I will post some excellent links here now and in future, insha'Allaah, for all to click on and bookmark, insha'Allaah. One of these websites has Hanafi fiqh questions and the answers are made by a well known sufi (just to clarify: I am NOT a sufi, but do believe in the original and pure form of Tasawwaf), Shaykh Faraz Rabbani, but I do feel the need to clarify for those that are bound to think "Oh no, not one of those 'evil' sufis" (<--a very unjust comment to think or state) that the website is STRICTLY concentrating on issues of fiqh, etc. and has NOTHING to do with sufism! Shaykh Faraz Rabbani has avoided giving sufistic answers to questions posed and has stuck to a purely fiqh based approach with respect to the Hanafi MadhHab, Maasha'Allaah, al-Hamd-ul-Illaah, so anyone who thinks what I have stated may possibly be thought or said by weary characters should be aware of this! And by the way, I personally find that sufis are generally lovely people and think it is VERY UNJUST for anyone to call them evil as a generalisation! There are evil people EVERYWHERE in ALL walks of life, and I find that there is a lack of them in the sufi division of Muslims. They seem very nice, Maasha'Allaah, and I love them dearly as my Muslim brothers and sisters even though I have some issues about some of their beliefs! Just know this, insha'Allaah, I REFUSE 100% point blank to take that WaHaabi-"ALL WHO DON'T CALL THEMSLEVES SALFIS AND DON'T FOLLOW 'MANHAJ AS-SALFIYYAH ARE HERETICS AND ARE EVIL"-approach, Astaghfirullaah!!! :shock:
Anyone who harbours such thoughts is evil themselves as far as I am concerned, and they seek nothing but to cause fitnah and sew seeds of discord amoung Muslims! NO Muslim is perfect, and if we seek to pick faults in each other no-end it will only result in huge fitnah!
Remeber, insha'Allaah, that our beloved Prophet, SallAllaahu `alayhi wa Sallam, said "If you see an innovation in the people, first (attempt to) correct it with your hand (I think this means to give a practical demonstration accompanied by an explanation to the person innovating, but you should clarify this with FatH al-Baari and ijma' of the `ulaama, insha'Allaah) and if you cannot do this then correct it with your tongue, and if you cannot do this then keep it in your heart (not to do the innovation in question)", Allaahu allim, I may have slightly misquoted the beginning of that well known Hadiith, if so then May Allaah forgive me, Aamiin; and may you correct me in a post in answer to this, insha'Allaah!
As far as I can dtermine, this narration ends with the latter statement as a detterant of fitnah being a result of the helpful and friendly advice accompanied by daliil that you may be offering a brother or sister in Islaam! Insha'Allaah, I will research the points made of which I am not so sure, and if anyone can correct me in the meantime then please do. However, with some AHaadiith we can be absolutely sure of the meaning and/or implications without having read the explanations, but we should strive to read them and find out from `ulaama, insha'Allaah, just to make SURE that we are correct and to make sure that the Hadiith we are looking into isn't abbrogated by another Hadiith because even SaHiih AHaadiith are abbrogated by others. For example, there are some AHaadiith in SaHiih al-Bukhari which state that mut`ah is permissible. Then, there are many others which state that it was ONLY permissible during the 3 days I have mentioned above and ONLY for specific people due to specific reasons! These AHaadiith obviously abbrogate completely the ones that state it is permissible!!!
Shukran, al-Hamd-ul-Illaah, for taking the time and making the effort to read my very lengthly post, which has veered here and there according to the thread subject! LOL!
As-Salaamu `alaykum wa RaHmatullaahi ta`alaa wa Baarakaatuh!!!
:oops: Whoops! I forgot to post the link! Here's the general link to the Hanafi fiqh Q&A section of the website: http://qa.sunnipath.com/browse.asp?id=1
Regarding parents and arranged marriage: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=3175&CATE=10
Regarding a brother who was forced into an arranged marriage: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4513&CATE=10
Another VERY interesting link regarding arranged marriage: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2946&CATE=146
This is also an interseting Q&A, although it slightly veres, but has relevance to the subject at hand: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2937&CATE=205
EXCELLENT link for anyone of a similar situation mentioned within (since I did mention in my previous post that it is always best to avoid fitnah in issues of the Diin, insha'Allaah); have a peek, insha'Allaah: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2026&CATE=121
Good link: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2314&CATE=10
Great link too: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1869&CATE=100
AWESOME link: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=5125&CATE=239
Another VERY interesting link, which also makes mention of mut'ah: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4144&CATE=96
WOW, there are some really interesting Q&A's on this website! I told you I would not let you down with the links, insha'Allaah. I know all of these ones are essentially from the same website, but they are good links all the same: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=6104&CATE=3600
And this one is for all those who make claim that a huge walima is neccessessity and Sunnah: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2792&CATE=10
I am very happy that my walima was very simple indeed and there were rich and poor, friends, neighbours, etc. (although in all, quite few people) present, and that my intentions were pure and good in keeping it simple but nice! Al-Hamd-ul-Illaah, all I did was exactly according to the Sunnah and I didn't know for sure as I had never read these things, but I felt it was the correct thing in my heart to keep it simple! Allaahu Akbar, I LOVE Allaah, SuBhaanahu wa ta `aala, and our beloved Rasuul, SallAllaahu `alayhi wa Sallam!
Well, next time I will post various websites of interest, insha'Allaah, rarther than links to the same one but in different places!
Brother, in the future can you plase separate your paragraphs by pressing enter twice instead of just once. It makes it all more readable.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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