"Medievalist" wrote:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

will they serve me halwa?

loooooooooool and u say ur not a barelwi?!

go on a thursday and have a look, if not wait for them to do giyarween and then u can eat hawla till it comes out your ears!

how childish is that.
i thought this thread was about muhamamd bin abdul wahaab. you cant defend his errors , so you have to go running somewheer else. typical

"angel" wrote:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

i only said that coz i aint got the foggiest what halwa has to do with anything.

LooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

:roll:

Hayder if med says your a brelwi, you are a brelwi!!

Yeh i wana knw bout this silly halwa thing!

lol, ok im a brelwi....YOU GOT ME! :roll:

this halwa thing has no foundation, its only a food aint it? :shock:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

lol, ok im a brelwi....YOU GOT ME! :roll:

this halwa thing has no foundation, its only a food aint it? :shock:

nah its bidah or whatever, it aint food acording to med, we shouldnt eat it!

"angel" wrote:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

lol, ok im a brelwi....YOU GOT ME! :roll:

this halwa thing has no foundation, its only a food aint it? :shock:

nah its bidah or whatever, it aint food acording to med, we shouldnt eat it!

uh-oh.....ive commited Fitnah yet again, im gettin good at it!

this aint a case for the CBI......but nontheless.......quite funny comments. a food man, a food!! lol....eating donner kebabs is something Submitters do :shock:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

"angel" wrote:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

lol, ok im a brelwi....YOU GOT ME! :roll:

this halwa thing has no foundation, its only a food aint it? :shock:

nah its bidah or whatever, it aint food acording to med, we shouldnt eat it!

uh-oh.....ive commited Fitnah yet again, im gettin good at it!

this aint a case for the CBI......but nontheless.......quite funny comments. a food man, a food!! lol....eating donner kebabs is something Submitters do :shock:

omg seems like we cant eat anythin, guess we will have to make do with eatin dirt...

"kuri/19" wrote:

i was just asking my bro about this sheikh...my bro says what he knows of is him being a great sheikh

i dont believe half the things

our prophet pbuh did not have the knowledge of the unseen only when he was told.

to say ya muhammed ya rasoolullah aint allowed either only when u at his grave

what do you think knowledge of the unseen is? and who do you think gave that knowldege to the prophet (saw)? the prophet knew about things which werent seen, which werent known, things in the future and of course he knew this because of Allah (swt). The wahabbi doctrine is that ONLY Allah has the knowledge of the unseen and to believe that anyone other than Allah including the prophet has this knoweldege , then it is shirk!!!!!!
[b]
some evidence to prove the prophets knowledge of the unseen:[/b]

A. The holy prophet said: "As I see in front of me, so I see things clearly behind me." Sahih Muslim, vol.2, p. 116

B. the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "I saw Prophet Musa (alaihis salaam) in the valley of Azraq, while passing from Mecca to Madina. He was reciting Talbiah. On another ocassion, I saw Prophet Yunus (alaihis salaam) wearing a long woollen overcoat and riding a red camel." Ibn-i-Majah, pp. 20, 208

C. the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is described witnessing Paradise and Hell. Sahih Muslim, vol.2, p. 180

D. it is learnt that the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) knows each inmate by name going in the Paradise or in the Hell. Miskhat ul Misabih, p. 19

E. when a man enquired from the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) whether he would go into Jannah or Jahannam, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied without a moment's pause that, "You shall go to Jahannam." Sahih Bukhari, vol.3, p. 855

F. The prophet says: "My entire Ummah was presented before me with each individual's scroll of deeds, good as well as bad." Sahih Muslim, vol. 1, p. 207; Musnad-i-Ahmad; Ibn-e-Maja

G. In another hadith , the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said: "One night, my Ummah was presented before me at my Hujrah and I know each of them as clearly as anyone knows his colleague." Ref: Anba al-Mustafa, p. 19; ref: Tibrani

that should be clear that the prophet had the knowledge of the unseen, but the honourable muhammad bin abdul wahaab and the wahabbi doctrine is that anyone who believes that anyone than allah has knowledge of the unseen is shirk!

Everyone has their opinion on this matter. it is probably best to let it rest.

Not everyone is either a wahabbi/salafi or brelwi.

Lets leave all this sectarian accusations and stuff behind.

"angel" wrote:

If it was to do with the incident in the time of the Holy Prophet why did he the future tense " there' will appear"?

In arabic the present and future tenses are the same.

Quote:

Who says the prophet pbuh is still alive in his grave. In what sense is he still alive? have u got any concrete evidence to say that he is? Abu Bakr radiallah ahno himself refered to the quran when the Prophet pbuh passed away and said "Whosoever worshipped Muhammed, know that he is dead. But he who worships Allah know that he is alive and never dies"

Everyone dies. However those who die in the path of Allah are not deae. they are alive, but we do not understand how.

Quote:

to say Ya rasoolallah is implying that the Prophet pbuh is omnipresent like Allah Subhanuwatallah and can hear a person when he says it. We say Ya Allah because he is present everywhere, he is all hearing and all seeing. To say Rasoolallah can hear you say certain things amounts to shirk. Omnipresence is an attribute of Allah alone.

How does it imply omnipresence?

Regarding knowledge, The Prophet has the knowledge provided to him by Allah swt. None of have any right to judge how much that is.

salaam

for kuri19,muslimbrother1,
[b]
SAYING YA RASULLALAH/ OH MUHAMAMD[/b]

The utterance of the above words are indeed permitted and no person other than those who are misled would argue with it. For reference on this matter, we shall consult the following CLASSICAL SCHOLARS of Islam and their books.

I will now quote a Hadith, proving that it is permissible to utter YA RASULLALLAH. This Hadith has been certified authentic by the following great Scholars of Islam:

A. Imaam Nisaai (radi Allahu anhu),

B. Imaam Tirmidhi (radi Allahu anhu),

C. Imaam ibn Maaja (radi Allahu anhu),

D. Imaam Haakim (radi Allahu anhu),

E. Imaam Baihaqi (radi Allahu anhu),

F. Imaam ibn Hazeema (radi Allahu anhu),

G. Imaam Abul Qasim Tabraani (radi Allahu anhu),

H. Imaam Manzari (radi Allahu anhu),

I. Imaam Muslim (radi Allahu anhu),

J. Imaam Bukhari (radi Allahu anhu).

(1) All the above mentioned Scholars of Ahadith, narrate on the authority of Hazrat Uthman bin Haneef (radi Allahu anhu), that a Sahabi who was blind by birth was taught a special Du'a by the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), which he was to recite after every Salaah.

The Du'a is as follows: Allahumma Inni As Aluka Wa Ata Wajjahu Ilaika Binabiyika Muhammadin Nabiyyir rahmati [b]Ya Muhammadu[/b] Inni Ata Wajjahu Bika ila Rabbi Fi Haajati haazihi lituqda li. Allahumma Fashaf'fi'u Fiya. "O Allah, I ask from you, and turn towards you through the Wasila (Medium) of Your Nabi Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), who is indeed a Prophet of Mercy. [b]O Muhammad,[/b] with your Wasila (Medium) I turn towards Allah for my need so that it may be bestowed.
O Allah, accept the Prophet's intercession for me."

(2) Imaam Tabraani (radi Allahu anhu), in his "Muhjam" records the following incident:

A person in dire need visited Ameerul Mu'mineen Hazrat Uthman Ghani (radi Allah anhu). The Caliph was busy with some other work and he did not attend to his need. Thereafter, the person went to Hazrat Uthman bin Haneef (radi Allahu anhu) and complained about the matter. Hazrat Uthman bin Haneef (radi Allahu anhu) ordered the man to perform the Wudhu (ablution), enter the musjid and to offer two Rakaats of Nafil Salaah. He was then to recite the following Du'a:Allahumma Inni As Aluka Wa Ata Wajjahu Ilaika Binabiyina Nabiyyir rahmati [b]Ya Muhammadu[/b] Inni Ata Wajjahu Bika ila Rabbi Fayadiha Haajati wa tazkuru haajataka wa ruh illaya hatta arooha
ma'aka. "O Allah, I beg of you and I seek your assistance, with the Wasila (Medium) of your beloved Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) who is the Prophet of Mercy. [b]O Muhammad![/b] I turn to Allah with your Wasila so that my needs be fulfilled."

Thereafter, he was told to mention his need. On completion, he was told to visit Hazrat Uthman bin Haneef (radi Allahu anhu), so that both could visit the august court of Hazrat Uthman Ghani (radi Allahu anhu). When he presented himself in front of the great Caliph, he was not only shown great respect, but his need and wish were also immediately granted. The Caliph, then addressing the man stated: "In future if you require any favour, come immediately to me."

After they had left the court of the great Caliph, the man thanked Hazrat Uthman bin Haneef (radi Allahu anhu) for mentioning him to the Caliph, the latter clearly stated that he had not even approached the Caliph. He then stated: "By Allah, I saw the Holy Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) teaching the very same Du'a to a blind man. Miraculously, the blind man then approached us before we could even complete our conversation, and it appeared as if he had never been blind."

Imaam Tabraani and Imaam Munzari (radi Allahu anhuma) have both stated that this Hadith is authentic.

(3) Imaam Bukhari (radi Allahu anhu) in his "Kitaabul Adaabul Mufrad", Imaam Ibnus Sinni and Imaam ibn Bashkool (radi Allahu anhuma) have recorded that, Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Omar (radi Allahu anhu) once suffered from a cramp. Someone advised him to remember the person whom he loved the most. The great companion then proclaimed loudly, [b]"Ya Muhammadah."[/b] It is recorded that he was immediately relieved.

(4) Imaam Nawawi (radi Allahu anhu) in his commentary of the Sahih Muslim, including in his book, "Kitaabul Azkaar", records that some individuals were sitting in the company of Hazrat Abdullah ibn Abbas (radi Allahu anhu), when suddenly one of them suffered from cramps. The great companion advised the man to remember the person whom he loved the most. The man proclaimed, [b]"Ya Muhammadah." [/b]He was immediately cured. There are in fact many Ashbaab who narrate incidents of similar incident.

(5) Substantiating this, Allama Shahaab Khafaaji Misri (radi Allahu anhu) states in his "Naseem-ur Riyaaz" a commentary of the "Shifa" by Imaam Qaadi Ayaaz (radi Allahu anhu), that it is an established practice of the people of Medina Shareef to proclaim [b]"Ya Muhammadah"[/b] in times of difficulty and anxiety.

Hazrat Bilal bin Al Haarith Muzani (radi Allahu anhu) states: A drought which was known as "Aamur Ramadah" once occurred during the Caliphate of Hazrat Umar Al Farouk (radi Allahu anhu). His tribe the Bani Muzaina approached him and complained that they were dying of hunger, and thus requested the Caliph to sacrifice a few sheep. When he told them that there was nothing left of the sheep, they still insisted. After the sheep were cut and cleaned they noticed that only red bones were to be seen. Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu), seeing this state of affairs, proclaimed loudly, [b]"Ya Muhammadah"[/b], in grief and concern.

He was then blessed with seeing the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) in his dream, who informed him of future glad tidings which did occur later on.

(7) Imaam-e-Mujtahid Sayyidi Abdur Rahman Huzaili Kufi Masoodi (radi Allahu anhu), was the grandson of Hazrat Abdullah ibn Masood (radi Allahu anhu). He was also a very great Jurist and a Taabi'in of high rank. It is stated that he used to wear a long hat with the inscribed words, [b]"Muhammad, Ya Mansoor."[/b]

(8) This was also confirmed by Imam Hasheem bin Jameel Az Zaaki (radi Allahu anhu) who was among the great Ulema and Muhadditheen of the time states: "I saw him (ie, Hazrat Abdur Rahman Masoodi) place a long hat on his head, with the words inscribed, [b]'Muhammad, Ya Mansoor'[/b]."

AGAIN IT SHOULD BE MADE CLEAR THAT SAYING YA MUHAMMAD WAS ISLAMIC DOCTRINE TAUGHT BY THE PROPHET HIMSELF, PRACTISED BY THE SAHABAH AND THSI BELIEF EXISTE DAMONG THE CLASSICAL SCHOLARS OF ISLAM.
BUT HONOURABLE MUHAMMAD BIN ABDUL WAHHAB SAID THAT THIS BELIEF IS SHIRK!!!!

now you make your mind up who you want to follow.

also bare in mind that muhamamd bin abdul wahabbs view that tawassul is shirk goes against the majority of the classical scholars of islam. again who do you want to follow?

wasalaam

"Medievalist" wrote:

Laa ilaaha illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullahi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.

Muhtarama Kuri I congratulate you on having straight aqeedah on knowledge of the unseen. Only ALLAH knows the unseen.

People who are ignorant of religion use certain ahadeeth to make the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallama partner with ALLAH.

Who is denying that the Holy Prophet salallah alyhi wa sallam saw things others didnt?
Who denies Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam saw paradise and hell?

Those who have even a basic knowledge of aqeedah will know that ghayb refers to that knowledge which is exclusively with ALLAH. If knowledge which previously was ghayb is given to Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam and remained only between ALLAH and Rasul salallahu alayhi wa sallam, even then that knowledge is not regarded as ghayb knowledge.

Ghayb knowledge is only with ALLAH.

The people of ignorance feel no shame in granting qualities EXCLUSIVE to ALLAH to the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. Hence you will see they call Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam Alimul Ghayb when ALLAH ALONE is Alimul Ghayb.

They mock at us and are shocked that such beliefs that Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam is knower of unseen is shirk. These people make claims to tawheed?

That is amusement and its best.

Now that is the problem with definitions.

If you define ilm ul ghayb as knowledge only Allah knows, ofcourse only Allah will know.

However that is not the definition. It is knowledge not known/kept from normal beings. Now Allah can grant anyone asmuch knowledge as he wishes. We cannot judge such things.

"Medievalist" wrote:

[b]Misconception 1.[/b]
[i]Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab completely disregarded the earlier ulama and came up with his own ideas.[/i]

[b]Answer[/b].
It is established that Shaykh was a hambali, he followed by and large the fiqh of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal rahmatullahi ta'ala alayh. Shaykh was influenced by the writings and teachings of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, the majority of his views which are so wrong according to some are along the lines of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah. It is established that Imam Ibn Taymiyyah practices his own ijtihad in a number of issues and this was due to his immense knowledge. The objection to Shaykh's taking literal meanings is not valid academically because Imam Dawud az-Zahiri and his madhab which existed in the early formative years of the madhahib also took literal meanings; hence their name: The Literalists.

It can be seen that the Shaykh did indeed differ in opinion with some of the early scholars, but it is also seen that he followed some of the early scholars aswell.

[b]Summary[/b]
Shaykh followed Imam Ahmad, Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam Dawud az-Zahiri hence accusations that he was something totally new are barefaced lies. It would not be a lie to say that Shaykh was a muqallid of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah, it is established by the ulama that respect should be held for Imam Ibn Taymiyyah. In conclusion, Shaykh may have differed from early scholars on certain issues, but he was still following a scholar whose knowledge is immense. Some even say that Imam Ibn Taymiyyah is the closest to a mujtahid after the era of the Four Mujtahid Imams.

muhamamd bin abdul wahaab may have followed hanfi fiqh but rejected almost all classical scholars when it comes to [b]islamic doctrine[/b]. Yes he looked up to Imam ibn Tyamiyyah- who again majority o fthe classical scholars differ and sipute with. th ebig difference is that muhamamd bin abdulwahaab accused muslim so fshirk that no calssical scholar did, not even ibn taymiyyah.

muhammad bin abdul wahaab rejected and went against giants of islam on islamic doctrine like imam shafi, imam ibn hajr asqalani, imam suyuti, imam nawawi, imaam ibn kathir, imam ibn al abideen al shami, imam tabari, imam alusi, imam shawkani, imam qastallani and many others.
[b]
dont you think they had a better understanding of shirk and bidah than muhammad bin abdul wahhab?[/b]
and accusing people of shirk and bidah is a massive thing bro!!!!!! because the beliefs that these classical scholars had- according to muhamamd bin abdul wahhaaab- they had to be mushriks or bid'ati!!!! astagfirullah!!!! do you know what i am trying to say here. now do you understand why i am going in to extreme detail here? this is nothing persoanl bro, this is about imaan, kufr, shirk, bidah, jannah and jahannam.

this is about a man accusing the world, including classical scholars of shirk and bidah.

wasalaam

"Medievalist" wrote:

Laa ilaaha illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullahi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.

Muhtarama Kuri I congratulate you on having straight aqeedah on knowledge of the unseen. Only ALLAH knows the unseen.

People who are ignorant of religion use certain ahadeeth to make the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallama partner with ALLAH.

Who is denying that the Holy Prophet salallah alyhi wa sallam saw things others didnt?
Who denies Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam saw paradise and hell?

Those who have even a basic knowledge of aqeedah will know that ghayb refers to that knowledge which is exclusively with ALLAH. If knowledge which previously was ghayb is given to Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam and remained only between ALLAH and Rasul salallahu alayhi wa sallam, even then that knowledge is not regarded as ghayb knowledge.

Ghayb knowledge is only with ALLAH.

The people of ignorance feel no shame in granting qualities EXCLUSIVE to ALLAH to the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. Hence you will see they call Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam Alimul Ghayb when ALLAH ALONE is Alimul Ghayb.

They mock at us and are shocked that such beliefs that Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam is knower of unseen is shirk. These people make claims to tawheed?

That is amusement and its best.

astagfirullah!

bro Allah has knowledge of the unseen, and allah given this knowldge to who he chooses from amongst the prophets. this is basic knowledge bro.... i thought you knew something.

[b]The people of ignorance feel no shame in granting qualities EXCLUSIVE to ALLAH to the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. Hence you will see they call Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam Alimul Ghayb when ALLAH ALONE is Alimul Ghayb.[/b]

again rubbish!
Allah is alimul gayb. allah gives His knoweldge to whoever he wishes from amongst the anbiyaaa....do you question what Allah can and cant do? fear Allah!

its amazing how you ignore hadith after hadith....and then you call me jaahil. grow up for god sakes.

Way'd go Ed! Excellent posts and explanations. But I'm afraid people like Med can't take it, he thinks what he knows/learnt is a mark in the stone! Your posts clearly show hadiths but still the man won't listen. This is a typical response from the followers of Abdul Wahab. I personally have seen a few debates between scholars of alhle-sunna and Deobandi/Wahabis and believe me they can't take the truth! they start to shout and even go to PERSONAL insults! but the Ahles-sunnah scholars have given hundereds of hadiths to some of the posts Med has made above quiet clearly!

About Waseela is Shirk, can Med or his chums tell me why Allah(swt) sent Gabriel to the prophets and then the prophets gave us religion? Why couldn't Allah(swt) give it direct to his humans?

Regarding the Brelwi's, Brewli is a place in India and when there was no Pakistan/Bangladesh and the Brits ruled they tried to break and opress the muslims and the deobandi/Wahabis thought of the brits as there best friends.....to cut a long story short, Imam Ahmed Raza Khan (RA) was from Brelwi, hence the 'brewli'. He fought the opression and the wrong beliefs bought by wahabism and deobandis into Islam with the help of the brits in that time - read History if in doubt. He was a great reviver of Islam in that time and without him there wouldn't have been many Ahle-sunnah in the indian sub-continent. Brelwi is not a different sect but 'brewlis' are Ahle-sunnah (sunni) muslims who follow every step of the our prophet (Saas) to the way he (saas) dressed, lived etc. and to love and spread the word of Peace which Islam is about, and which the Wahabi's/Deobandis' have tarnished with all the fitna and suicide bombings in todays world.

I is VERY BORED can somebody say somthing controversial/rude/cheeky/dirty/immature/innapropriate/

if u isn't I IS!

i am NOT a follower of sheikh mohammed ibn abdul wahab

i am from the hanafi school of thought

but i agree with certain things sheikh has mentioned

nor do i like ppl abusing him coz i feel this is wrong....i defend him because i believe there have been vast amount of lies spreaded about his teachings and we do not know what the lies are.

im not here to argue but have a right to say what i think is right...just the way the rest of u do and i respect your views

i still believe our prophet did not have the knowledge of the unseen...he knew only what was revealed to him by allah taalah.The Prophet said in the h.adith: "I swear it by Allah! Truly I know nothing except what my Lord taught me."

In an authentic saying, the Prophet of Islam p.b.u.h. said: Whoever goes to a fortune teller (a soothe sayer) or a diviner and believes him, has, in fact, disbelieved in what has been revealed to Muhammad.
Thus Islam condemns magic- even what is called the horoscope or luck or reading one's palm to foretell the future is also prohibited in Islam. This is based on the belief that no one knows the future or the unseen except God almighty. That is why the Quran asserts that even Muhammad does not know the unseen. Concerning this, it says:

"If I had the knowledge of the unseen, I should have secured abundance for myself, and no evil would have touched me" (7:188).
Again, God is described in the Quran as the knower of the unseen and the manifest (6:73) and as the holder of the keys of the unseen (6:59).

Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. Quran 46 : 9
Say: "As to the knowledge of the time, it is with Allah alone: I am but a plain warner." 67 : 26

Say: "The Unseen is only for Allah (to know)..." 10: 20

Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden (unseen)...." 6 : 50

Who is more true in statement than Allah? 4 : 87

Two Hadiths from Sahih al-Bukhari:
Hadith 9:477 quoted below, tells us that the Prophet DID NOT have the knowledge of the UNSEEN…

Narrated by Masruq:
Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103)
And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: "None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah."

If all Muslims were to truly believe; Allah Alone has the knowledge of UNSEEN, some of the sub-Sects of Islam would loose their holds upon their followings.

as for the incidents u quoted ed...was the prophet still alive ...coz if he was then saying ya rasoolullah is permissable, otherwise u can only say it where hes present.

i only know of what i have been taught

"Umar" wrote:

Way'd go Ed! Excellent posts and explanations. But I'm afraid people like Med can't take it, he thinks what he knows/learnt is a mark in the stone! Your posts clearly show hadiths but still the man won't listen. .

both Mr Ed and Med are entitled to their views

the diff btw Mr Ed and Med is that Med insults and slanders

(slander in Islam which is considered worse then adultery)

if someone dont agree with Med's view they suddently become "graveworshipping-halwa loving-Brewli'"

even though not ONE of the members on this forum has admitted to being a brewli or being a halwa lover (even if they were it wouldnt be a big deal :roll: )

its intresting watching their debate-

i didnt know deobands were like this-

before I came to this forum I never had a negative opinion about them-

at least now I know what madrassers/teachers to avoid from now on

one does learn a lot from the revival

I think this thread perfectly describe the problem that we have today. The fact that people are so set in their way to misunderstanding what the other thinks. Med doesn't like when someone assume something about Abdul Wahaab but at the same time is only too happy to judge Imaam Ahmed Raza Khan. I highlighting Med here, but he not the only one to be guilty of this.

IMO both of these scholar were good people, I don't judge them on the people who follow them today, because I have seen first hand certain Brewalvi not follow the practices of Ahmed Raza Khan and I believe that the follower of Abdul Wahhab are being much more rigid then the scholar himself intented them too be. Too be honest people are working on hearsay too much here.

On lilsis question on Deoband, I wouldn't use one person to judge all deoband, I personally follow alot in their line of thinking as I do of Brewalvi and I do like halwa as well. I also seen that other deoband are here as well and they more then ok IMO. There isn't much of a difference as certain people from both sides try making out. It just misunderstanding IMO and the ego that has cause for there to be more of a drift then there needed to be.

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

lol lil sis...

duz da same rule apply to u aswell?

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

Yeah, but every group cuss other group, I haven't met one group who hasn't had a bad word about another group and I made a point of going to see nearly every group in th UK. It just that people don't like it when they the one getting cussed and so make a big deal, but be in no doubt they all do it.

"Judda" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

lol lil sis...

duz da same rule apply to u aswell?

I've never cussed Mr Wahab

why should I?

and I dont follow ANY group

I disagree with the extreme ones that make islam look bad

but i dont have a personal fav group-nor do i follow one (YET)

lilsis u cussed my brother exHT when he just merely pointed out that u shud not commit shirk.... okay he went a bit OTT but his intentions were not wrong....

"yuit" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

Yeah, but every group cuss other group, I haven't met one group who hasn't had a bad word about another group and I made a point of going to see nearly every group in th UK. It just that people don't like it when they the one getting cussed and so make a big deal, but be in no doubt they all do it.

yes but fighting based on FACTS is all good

slander is NOT

if I KNOW- cos I've seen that the HT and the MPAC lot a a bit full on and in ur face-I'll say so

if I aint come across this then I wouldnt DARE to slander them

same way unless extremists KNOW that we worship graves/are brewli's and love halwa-they have no right to slander

people may feel free to fight based on FACTS not heresay

"yuit" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

Yeah, but every group cuss other group, I haven't met one group who hasn't had a bad word about another group and I made a point of going to see nearly every group in th UK. It just that people don't like it when they the one getting cussed and so make a big deal, but be in no doubt they all do it.

I don't think that the 'groups' cuss each other. It's just a few members of groups who go around cussing everyone else.

I went to Eid namaz at a Salafi mosque once (don't ask :roll:) and the imam in his khutba advised the congregation against causing divisions and accusing others of not following Islam properly.

"irfghan" wrote:

"yuit" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

i couldnt care less if a person is a wahabi or a halwa eating brewli

IMO the only "group" that looks bad in my eyes is the one who lacks manners and cuss/slander others and their teachers

Yeah, but every group cuss other group, I haven't met one group who hasn't had a bad word about another group and I made a point of going to see nearly every group in th UK. It just that people don't like it when they the one getting cussed and so make a big deal, but be in no doubt they all do it.

I don't think that the 'groups' cuss each other. It's just a few members of groups who go around cussing everyone else.

I went to Eid namaz at a Salafi mosque once (don't ask :roll:) and the imam in his khutba advised the congregation against causing divisions and accusing others of not following Islam properly.

yea but they contradict the koran...

and hadith contradict each other....

no1 is happy....

every1 is fighting...

and....

Many people, however, are destined for retribution. (22:18 )

The Wahhabi have probably been hit with the most slander and hearsay then any other group, but they ain't really innocent their self. Also it hard when no one understand where the truth lies, so you can't really say that anyone in particular agrue with facts, because it different for everyone. What one person may consider as fact may be consider as slander by someone esle.

But I agree with Irfghan, it not normally coming from the leaders, it just based on over zealous members, and we really shouldn't judge a whole group on individual, but it a sad fact that we normally do.

"yuit" wrote:

The Wahhabi have probably been hit with the most slander and hearsay then any other group, but they ain't really innocent their self.

uv just contradicted ur self m8