User login
Author Information
Poll
Why have you visited this website?
To check for updates
11%
Read posts
39%
Contribute to discussions
6%
Share content
3%
Social media brought me here
6%
Tis fate
35%
Total votes: 633
Active forum topics
Recent blog posts
Upcoming Events
- 30 Nov 2024 - 11:30 to 16:30
- 30 Nov 2024 - 11:30 to 16:30
- 7 Dec 2024 - 11:30 to 17:00
- 8 Dec 2024 - 11:30 to 16:30
- 15 Dec 2024 - 11:00 to 16:00
Quick Links
Who's online
There are currently 0 users online.
u cant help but do that ESP since the one or two zealous members may be the ONLY interaction a person may ever have with the teachings frm that group
Why?
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
I've heard Sheikh Hamza Yusuf telling people not to waste time in MSA's (Muslim Student Associations, ie uni. Islamic societies) arguing about Islam e.g. Wahabi this Wahabi that. We are not qualified to have such debates, let alone get all hot and bothered about it.
Different strands of thought have always been around. It's nothing new.
tru... my brother is not nasty, he never cusses NE1... yet u still called submitters "wierdos"
u sed we shouldnt judge ppl from a few members yet u said whabis are not innocent....
u don't know every whabi so there is no need to be so steriotypical innit?
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
Not really, I sure many other on here follow deoband, but they tend to keep it low. I personally have alot of respect for the deoband teaching and do follow certain aspect, so even though a couple make all the noice it not what we really should focus on, take Minhaj if I was too take the whole minhaj group on two forum member and choose a certain outspoken two, it wouldn't really be fair on all the other members. There good in everything, you just need to look for it IMO.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
absoloutly!
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
diff of opinion never bothers me
its what that diff of opinion DOES to people which is worrying
when person becomes mean/harsh or stoops so low and begins to slander those who dont see eye to eye with him/her
that causes probs
Yeah u probably right, but I was just using it to illustrate a point. But yeah u right.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
Then you should focus on the person rather than their strand of thought.
how can u seperate the two when the "person" only speaks about what his/her school of thought preaches?
its too interlinked
i havent got the qualifications yet i've got the arrogence.... thats enough innit?
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
The school of thought comes from the imams and the scholars. Not the wierdo shouty person.
I'm sure there are 'in-your-face-loonies' in all traditions.
suppose so
but sumtimes the Imams/teachers are like this too
thats why they hand this style down to their students/followers
in many cases students pick up the habits/character of the teacher
scary but true... :?
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
Not really, as if I judge Dr Tahir Qadri on Susan and BB, you would argue the fact I wouldn't be fair on the rest of Minhaj, the same apply to every other group. There have their goods and bads, I have never heard one Deobandi scholar speak bad of any group. So it really down too the individual. There various place you can pick up these habit as irghan had indicated.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
Not all imams in that group will be like that.
Omar Bakri, Hamza Yusuf are one-offs. They have no serious scholarly backing.
We shouldn't be too quick to assume the worst.
deleted
BUT teachers DO have an infleunce
if a teacher preaches violence and justify's terrorism-then OF COURSE students will have same views
approach may differ tho frm student to student
e.g Dr Tahir ul Qadri beleives in Milad-SO do susan, BB, angel, my sister etc
but they all diff people-diff in their approach
Ofcourse teachers have an influence. But you can't make a be-all-end-all judgement based on one follower or one imam on a hundreds or thousands year old school of thought.
All traditions have their 'goods' and their 'bads', but they all manage to find some sort of justification or answer for the 'bads'.
More to the point, why would you need to make such assertions? Just stick to your own tradition safe in the knowledge that your tradition is the right one.
Yeah but as Susan and BB decide too attack all group and slander people angel and ur sis don't. But by ur account the teacher is influencing them but in this case it shows it ain't really the case.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
...so I know who to avoid and keep away frm
but i TOTALLY agree with u
ur a clever boy
I've pointed out above that they ALL share the same views cos they follow the same teacher
but I admitted that they differ in their approach cos they all diff people
nice topic.. cudn't help but feel a sense of deja vu..
and then remembered this:
[url=http://therevival.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display... it time to analyse the "Wahhabi" movement?[/url]
u know what though after all them years, Im still on decided wether he was a good man or a bad man.
to be perfectly honest, it doesnt bother me that much..
better to concentrate on the beliefs rather than the person; just because u may share one of his beliefs does not make u a follower.. or a 'wahabi'
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
astagfirullah!
how dare you call me a grave worshipper?
how dare you call most people on this forum , who diagree with your beloved muhammad bin abdul wahaab, as grave worshippers.
how dare you call me a mushrik
how dare you accuse others of this forum of shirk!
you will need to repent for this bro infront of Almighty Allah.
calling someone as a mushrik is a big claim.., i hope you can live that for the rest of your life...
i have made it crustal clear i have nothing to do with worship graves, do sajdah at graves, ask help from the people in the graves, or think that ppl in the graves can help me. i mentioned tawassul where i gave loads of evidence of quran, sunnah an dthe classical scholars, that is my aqeeda of tawassul. do you have no fear of God at all. this a classic sign of those who look up to muhamamd bin abdul wahaab, they are very quick to accuse muslims of shirk!!!!
this was just a cheap shot, to get a few more brownie points.....you cant take it that i have stated many hard core facts against your honourable shaykh na dhis creed, backed with quran, sunnah and ijma of scholars...so your only answer is to accuse me and others of being brelwi, eating halwa and being grave worshippers.how disgusting an dsad is that!
shame on you. i expected better from someone who is studying in a madrassa, obviously there is no difference from a student of islam and others.
in this thread have i called u a kafir, mushrik, bid'ati? have i ? u dissapoint me and i fear more ppl like u are being produced at institutes and will be future 'imams and scholars'. i know good brothesr from deobandi institutes, some good deobandi scholars, an dhave good deobandi friends, even a few of our sub editors and members of the revival editorial team are deobandi....but YOU let them down, let deobandis down, let TJ down..u give them a bad name. May Allah guide this ummah.
salaam
thank you for your post...
[b]
let me make the issue a bit more clear because i really think we believe the same, just some misunderstandings. [/b]
You see, "Ghayb" is that hidden thing which cannot be perceived by human senses nor can be known through human wisdom. Ilm-e-ghaib is called the knowledge of invisible things that cannot be known by human senses and can't be understood without arguments.
[b]The knowledge of the unseen is of two types
1- Personal and 2- Granted[/b]
[u]Personal knowledge of the unseen is specific to Allah Almighty [/u]as described in the holy Quran at many occasions: The Holy Quran has mentioned Ilm-e-Ghayb in several verses and has declared that this Knowledge is one of the Attributes of Allah.
"Say thou, (O Muhammad)! The Knowledge of Unseen belongeth unto Allah alone." (Surah Yunus, 10:20)
See also Surah Ana'm 6:59; Surah Baqarah, 2:33; Surah Hud, 10:31. [b]These verses indicate that the Knowledge of Unseen belongs to Allah Ta'ala Alone. Nobody on his own has this knowledge nor can anybody possess this Divine Treasure.[/b] However, these verses have nowhere indicated Allah Ta'ala to say that He does not grant this Knowledge of Unseen to anybody. The Prophet has the second category of the GRANTED knowledge of the unseen, not Personal:
[b]Allah Ta'ala says: "Allah Alone is the Knower of the Unseen. He never grants the Knowledge of his Ghayb to anyone [u]but to His chosen Messengers[/u] and appoints guard before them and behind them." (Surah Jinn, 72:26-27).[/b]
"And it is not befitting to the dignity of Allah almighty that O general people He let you know the unseen. Yes, Allah Almighty chooses from among His messengers whom He pleases."
(chapter 4, Surah 3, Verse 179)
[b]The Holy Quran has mentioned at various places that Allah Ta'ala has granted the Knowledge of Unseen to His exalted Prophets.[/b] See Surah Baqarah, 2:31; Surah Baqarah, 2: 251; Surah Naml, 27:16; Surah Ambiya, 21:74; Surah Yusuf, 12:68; Surah Yusuf, 12:96; Surah Qasas, 28:14.
The Knowledge of Unseen was also given to the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam).
So sister, everything that came to us from the prophet
consisting in news of the unseen is nothing other than the Divine disclosure to him as a proof for the actuality of his Prophethood and its truth.
[b]some more evidence on th eknowledge of the unseen of the prophet (saw)[/b]
Imam Ahmad and al-Tabarani narrated from Abu Dharr radyAllahu `anh who said: "When the Messenger of Allah left us there was not a bird that flies but he had informed us about it."1
Muslim narrated from `Amr ibn Akhtab [Abu Zayd] al-Ansari radyAllahu `anh who said: "The Prophet prayed fajr with us then climbed the pulpit and addressed us until the time came for zuhr, then he descended and prayed. Then he climbed the pulpit and addressed us until the time came for `asr, whereupon he descended and prayed. Then he climbed the pulpit and addressed us until the sun set. He informed us about all that was to happen until the Day of Resurrection. The most knowledgeable of us is he who has memorized the most."2
Al-Bukhari and Muslim narrated from Hudhayfa radyAllahu `anh who said: "The Prophet stood among us [speaking] for a long time and did not leave out one thing from that time until the rising of the Final Hour except he told us about it. Whoever remembers it remembers it and whoever forgot it forgot it. All those who are present know this. Some of it I might have forgotten, then I see it [happen] and remember it just as someone would remember a man who had been away and then appears before him and he instantly recognizes him."3
Muslim also narrated from Hudhayfa that he said: "The Prophet informed me of all that would happen until the Day of Resurrection and there was nothing of it except I asked him about it, save that I did not ask him what would bring the people of Madina out of Madina."4
Abu Dawud also narrated from Hudhayfa that he said: "By Allah! I do not know whether my companions forgot or pretended to forget it,5, but the Messenger of Allah did not leave out a single instigator of sedition until the end of the world, each with a minimum of three hundred followers, except he mentioned each one of them for us by his own name, the name of his father, and the name of his tribe."6
Abu Ya`la also narrated with a sound chain from Anas radyAllahu `anh who said: "The Messenger of Allah came out angry and addressed the people, saying: 'Today you shall not ask me about anything except I shall tell you about it,' and we truly believed that Gibril was with him. Whereupon `Umar said: 'O Messenger of Allah, only recently were we in a time of ignorance. We beg you, do not expose our disgrace! Forgive us, and may Allah forgive you!'"7
Abu Ya`la also narrated with a passable chain from Ibn `Umar radyAllahu `anhuma who said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'This clan (hayy) of the Quraysh shall remain safe until they turn away from their Religion into apostates.' A man stood up saying: `Messenger of Allah! Will I be in Paradise or in Hellfire?' The Prophet answered, 'In Paradise.' Another stood asking the same, whereupon the Prophet answered, 'In Hellfire.' Then [he said], 'Say nothing to me as long as I say nothing to you. Were it not for fear that you would stop burying one another (lawla an la tadafanu) I should certainly tell you about a great number of those who will be in the Fire and you would know who they are. If I am ordered to do it I shall certainly do it!'"8
NOTES
1 Narrated by al-Tabarani in al-Kabir (2:155 #1647) with trustworthy narrators per al-Haythami (8:263-264), Ahmad, Abu Dawud al-Tayalisi, Ibn Sa`d in his Tabaqat (2:354), al-Bazzar in his Musnad (9:341 #3897), al-Tabari in his Tafsir (7:189) Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Isti`ab (4:1655), Ibn Hibban (1:267 #65 isnad sahih), and al-Daraqutni in his 'Ilal (6:290 #1148). Cf. al-Haythami, Mawarid al-Zam'an (p. 47). Also narrated from Abu al-Darda' by Abu Ya`la in his Musnad (9:46 #5109 isnad sahih).
2 Thus narrated by Muslim and Ahmad.
3 Narrated from Hudhayfa by al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, and Ahmad; and from Abu Sa`id al-Khudri by al-Tirmidhi (hasan sahih) and Ahmad. Al-Bukhari narrated something similar from `Umar.
4 Narrated from Hudhayfa by Muslim and Ahmad with the wording: "until the rising of the Hour."
5 To prevent fitna. Al-Qari said in his commentary of al-Shifa': "to turn to what is more important."
6 Narrated from Hudhayfa by Abu Dawud.
7 Narrated from Anas by Abu Ya`la in his Musnad (6:360 #3689) and its narrators are those of al-Bukhari and Muslim according to al-Haythami (7:188). A longer version is narrated in the Sahihayn. The phrase "And may Allah forgive you" expresses thanks and good wishes.
8 Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Abu Ya`la in his Musnad (10:66 #5702) and, as part of a longer narration, by Ibn Abu Hatim in his `Ilal (2:256 #2262).
Alot more can be said on this topic but the evidence is before us all, so we bot really believe that real and ultimate, personal knowledge of the unseen only belongs to Allah. Also that it is up to Allah who he gives the knowledge of the unseen from his prophets as the Quran say. Allah has granted the knowledge of th eunseen to hsi beloved prophets.. Also that everything that the prophet
knew about the unseen was ONLY from Allah, he did not know anything from himself.Only Allah is Aalim-ul-ghayb.
[b]I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE ASWELL SIS. MEDIEVAL JUST LIKES TO STIR THINGS AND ACCUSE ME OF SHIRK![/b]
yes this is common sense and is the basis of Islamic belief. the very fact that Mr Wahab has produced the necessity to say this shows his shoddy intentions and the slow minds of his followers
no amount of belittling the Holy Prophet(pbuh) will satisfay them and they will continue to bring fitna as long as they have breath - this is the legacy of Abdul Wahab and the reason why he is abhorred by every sane Muslim who believes in the one God and Muhammed (pbuh) as the last Messanger
For the record, I have not pointed my finger at any1 specific in regards to the claim of graveworshipping.
Teachers.
I fully confess I am a sinner, an illiterate and a jaahil. I lack culture and am crude and crass in expression. My teachers have shown great love and affection for me but alas I am such a wretch that I have not benefited. My evilness and weakness is mine, my teachers are free from my evil and shall remain free.
On another point it is interesting that someone has stopped replying to another posts, to avoid fasad and fitnah, and in response the other person utters all sorts of things about the original person. For the record it will be noted that after someone accused me of worshipping TJ I have stopped responding to or bothering with that person. I dont see any point in it.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
im glad. you stop replying to me. and i stop replying to you. no point in replying to each other. but if you make an attack on anything i stand for i will definitely make my views clear.
i just hope u two havent got a grudge with each other coz of this thread..coz that was not the point of the thread
plz respect each others views
respect u both still.
It started earlier. I think.
its a personality clash. there will be fireworks.
popcorn time!
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Pages