I just want to state that I have already shown how you are twisting that narration.

I have told you previously that the prophet specifically asked to not be mentioned at the time of sneezing, soIbn Umar was not trying to prevent the praise of the prophet or prevent people from praising and sending peace upon the prophet except in a situation where the prophet specifically asked not to.

Now I have told you this before, but you have ignored that.

Which kind of shows who is twisting historical sources to suit their needs.

Besides, I doubt you have even read what you write.

You want people to stop doing nawaafil full stop.

Doing dua and sending salaam on prophets is allowed. You want to prevent this.

But i believe that if someone does this, it is a good thing. Do it regularly and it REMAINS A GOOD THING.

what hadith, all you do is say a hadith said this, a hadith saif that, even i can say a hadith says sufis are army of dajjal, but if a person was to look for that they wouldnt find it, same with you

The one you told me to ignore when discussing mawlid. Where the prophet stated that he fasted on Mondays and thursdays. He explained that it was because that was the day he was born and that was the day he recieved revelation. This has been mentioned multiple times now and you are clearly aware of it as you brought it up and I suggest that if you do look it up, you will find it as you are already aware of it. Please stop trying to hide this hadith because it forms a part of sunnah.

You continue to try to ignore the actions of the prophet and his explanation for his actions. When your preferred views contradict the explanation given by the prophet (saw), I suggest that you change your views.

new things that do not contradict the religion, such as new prophecies were completed, new babies were born, new caliphs came, calipha was destroyed, calipha will return, new people died, new countries were discovered, new coutnries were invaded, new swords were made, new houses were built, new glass and paltes were made

Bid'ah is not bid'ah if its inconvenient to your views. i see.

You ignore import duties, Caliph Umar (ra) introducing the import tax, stopping giving alms to a tribe that the prophet gave them to, the caliphs being selected in new and novel ways (and caliphs are religious leaders, so yes this DOES matter), the rules on Khums being changed, the sahabahs calling something bid'ah hasanah, Caliph Umar (ra) deciding on a test to clarify if someone is a male or female, Caliph Uthmaan putting people in power that the prophet and earlier sahabahs had kept away from power, all of these are significant things that have religious consequence and do not fit into your world views.

You have to ignore the salaf, the sahabahs and portions of teh qur'an and sunnah in order to support your stance.

The sahabahs used the word bid'ah hasanah. They did not mention allowing bid'ah in your terms.

I will take the words of the sahabahs. They considered something bid'ah, they considered it hasanah. and that seals the deal. it doesnt matter if you consider it bid'ah or not as they did. Their views are preferred over yours.

But i doubt you will, for you do not even take the word of the qur'an when it tells to celebrate the favours of our lord when it goes against your views.

So before you continue arguing, you need to consider why you are doing it. Is it due to ego? I suspect so, as you are rejecting Qur'an and sunnah in order to maintain your views.

These long posts discussing all aspects are slightly ignoring that while we can t and fro on many issues, there are others that we cannot.

For instance: The sahabah considered something bid'ah, they also considered it hasanah.

Now that is the people with the best understanding of sunnah.

They considered something bid'ah and they considered it hasanah.

That should be enough for most people to answer the title of this topic.

It does not matter if the forum topicstarter considered the matter bid'ah or not, as the sahabahs clearly did and are recorded as stating it so.

You wrote:

I just want to state that I have already shown how you are twisting that narration.

I have told you previously that the prophet specifically asked to not be mentioned at the time of sneezing, soIbn Umar was not trying to prevent the praise of the prophet or prevent people from praising and sending peace upon the prophet except in a situation where the prophet specifically asked not to.

Now I have told you this before, but you have ignored that.

no body cares about your explanation, its the real explanation given by the hadith is what matters and all scholars of today and past have made it clear what this hadith means, so again stop your twisted lies and accept the facts

the man started a bidah and ibn umar ra ordered him not to do this because it is not from muhammad saw but a innovation hadith is clear

everyone accept this everyone accept the ahlul bidah

Quote:

Which kind of shows who is twisting historical sources to suit their needs.

how many times have i caught you in doing this and now your trying to put me in this position show a single bidah i do while i can show a 100 you do

[/quote]

Quote:

Besides, I doubt you have even read what you write.

i do question is do you, because i have caught you in your twsiting my post trick, i think your very first mistake was inthinking i dont read your posts or remember my own posts which led to this

Quote:

You want people to stop doing nawaafil full stop.

i am the one who taught you  how perform the nawfal of duha is performed and you make this claim on me

Quote:

Doing dua and sending salaam on prophets is allowed. You want to prevent this.

i do not stop the salaam part, again i cath you in my lies go check my previous posts and see what i said i said so long as it is done on quran and sunnah theirs nothign wrong using bidah which muhammad saw said is harram thats whats wrong

the dua in salah allahumma swalliala muhammadiyu..... what does the dua mean send peace and blessings on muhamamd saw and family and also ibrahim as and his family

their are other duas from quran and sunnah related to this, if you use those method theirs no problem but use one that is not bases on quran and sunnah then it is a problem

Quote:

But i believe that if someone does this, it is a good thing. Do it regularly and it REMAINS A GOOD THING.

if thats the case a men will rape a women and say he had good intention to do that, so all your doing is opening mroe doors to harram

Quote:

 

what hadith, all you do is say a hadith said this, a hadith saif that, even i can say a hadith says sufis are army of dajjal, but if a person was to look for that they wouldnt find it, same with you

The one you told me to ignore when discussing mawlid. Where the prophet stated that he fasted on Mondays and thursdays. He explained that it was because that was the day he was born and that was the day he recieved revelation. This has been mentioned multiple times now and you are clearly aware of it as you brought it up and I suggest that if you do look it up, you will find it as you are already aware of it. Please stop trying to hide this hadith because it forms a part of sunnah.

i am not hiding it if i did i wouldnt post it, but what you remain deaf and blind of is what the hadith means the hadith means fast on those days does it say do a party on these day, if thats the case im sure you use the hadith of praying 5 times a day as a evidence to fast on 5 different times a day

Quote:

You continue to try to ignore the actions of the prophet and his explanation for his actions. When your preferred views contradict the explanation given by the prophet (saw), I suggest that you change your views.

new things that do not contradict the religion, such as new prophecies were completed, new babies were born, new caliphs came, calipha was destroyed, calipha will return, new people died, new countries were discovered, new coutnries were invaded, new swords were made, new houses were built, new glass and paltes were made

Bid'ah is not bid'ah if its inconvenient to your views. i see.

for someone who doesnt even know the meaning of bidah these are far beyond your capabilites to talk about i sugest you learn how not to be this:

Deaf, dumb and blind  they will not return [to the right path]. verse 2:18

Quote:

You ignore import duties, Caliph Umar (ra) introducing the import tax, stopping giving alms to a tribe that the prophet gave them to, the caliphs being selected in new and novel ways (and caliphs are religious leaders, so yes this DOES matter), the rules on Khums being changed, the sahabahs calling something bid'ah hasanah, Caliph Umar (ra) deciding on a test to clarify if someone is a male or female, Caliph Uthmaan putting people in power that the prophet and earlier sahabahs had kept away from power, all of these are significant things that have religious consequence and do not fit into your world views.

and you ignore the fatwa of ibn taymiyyah in which he used evidence from quran and sunnah that the tax have a minimum and maximum limit in which they can be increased and decreased depending on the situation

if umar ibn abdul aziz did this then umar ra for a while stopped following a fardh, the fardh of hudoon when did umar ra do this during the famine why because the scenario at that point made it valid for him to do this, this he did based on quran and sunnah not because of bidah but rather quran and sunnah explanation shows in circumstances like this its allowed so, no different to this umar ibn abdul aziz rh changed the tax because based on the quran and sunnah it allows this

but anyway i showed you the bin taymiyyah fatwa regarding the tax and that their is a mimimun limit and maximum to which the calipha can change it  so now my question you didnt bother thinking about that

if a new crime is done such as having drugs the caliph has the right to declare it harram halal and its punishment, such as drugs didnt exist in muhamamd saw time so according to your clueless view you will claim this isbidah, but when we look into quran allah confirmed anything that causes damage to health messes up the mind like alcohol is harram so drugs fits into this verse of quran making it harram, so this is not bidah rather quran ahs already declared this we jsut found out later but allah used the quran to let us know this in advance even when discovered later, so the umar ra uthman ra scenario fits into this, again as mentioned here when faced with new problems a sahaba ra or muslim can only use methods islam allow to use, umar ra wouldnt be allowed to create a way quran and sunnah forbids to do this action he can only use one that is allowed so again this doesnt proven anythign you claim rather proves yet another hadith of muhammad saw when calipha sees new evil he can use quran and sunnah to determine what to do here such as the scenario of cigerettes drugs and others

Quote:

You have to ignore the salaf, the sahabahs and portions of teh qur'an and sunnah in order to support your stance.

dont get me mixed up with you, for you need to sue your modern pirs to prove your view which isnt even based on quran and sunnah, i use verses of quran to prove my point and hadith this is why when i psot a hadith you need to hcange its meaning and fabricate it to suit your lies

your lie regarding salatul duha is a classic example of this and twisting my post of something linking it to mawlid when it wasnt even regarding to that

Quote:

The sahabahs used the word bid'ah hasanah. They did not mention allowing bid'ah in your terms.

no they didnt why are you lying for this is what the sahaba ra said:

http://ia801607.us.archive.org/16/items/SahihMuslim7Vol.Set/SahihMuslimV...

go to page number 51 and read in rabaabic does it say bidah hasanah?

Quote:

I will take the words of the sahabahs. They considered something bid'ah, they considered it hasanah. and that seals the deal. it doesnt matter if you consider it bid'ah or not as they did. Their views are preferred over yours.

they considered a sunnah hasanah a good start of practice not bidah hasanah as i said go to the link i provided above the page number and read in arabic what it says does it say bidah hasanah or what i say

Quote:

But i doubt you will, for you do not even take the word of the qur'an when it tells to celebrate the favours of our lord when it goes against your views.

yes so celebrate the invention of toilet that too is by the will of allah, celebrate your tree, the plansts you grew, celebrate the day you bought a new table you bought in your house, celebrate the birthday fo your pet cat, your animals, celebrate the day you planted your plants, and at the same time celebrate the birthday of your trousers on the day you bought it, make a eid for all your clothes, your carpet

Quote:

So before you continue arguing, you need to consider why you are doing it. Is it due to ego? I suspect so, as you are rejecting Qur'an and sunnah in order to maintain your views.

read the link i gave and we'll see whos speaking the truth

and then when you see the reality everyone will know why im doing this

You wrote:

These long posts discussing all aspects are slightly ignoring that while we can t and fro on many issues, there are others that we cannot.

For instance: The sahabah considered something bid'ah, they also considered it hasanah.

Now that is the people with the best understanding of sunnah.

They considered something bid'ah and they considered it hasanah.

That should be enough for most people to answer the title of this topic.

It does not matter if the forum topicstarter considered the matter bid'ah or not, as the sahabahs clearly did and are recorded as stating it so.

no they didnt check my reference above from sahih muslim its quoite obvious you have never read any hadith ina rabic if you did you would understand atleast the keywords, if you dont understand arabic atleast learn the basic words and important words like we all know what allahuakbar means learn other ones

anyway reference is in the above posts so anypone who wnats to see whether it says bidah hasanah or sunnah hasanah please check and see who correct my explanatio or his

the sahaba ra did consider it bidah but if the main member of the forum failed to research and read this matter first anbd like the salatul duha incidents made the members of this forum fall for this lie then he and only he is to be blamed dor he spread wrong knowledge

againt he hadith says whoever starts a good practice/good sunnah starts meaning one that is already a sunnah but that person starts it liek in a scenario of a poor man has no food and he starts the sunnah of zakah on him and others see him do this and also do it then it is considered a good start to practice or sunnah as the hadith states start a sunnah, not innvoate a new sunnha but start a sunnah that is a sunnah of muhammad saw

Wrong reference bro.

I was referring to the narration where the words Bid'ah hasanah arise from, namely the establishing of the taravih jama'ah by Caliph Umar. That was where Caliph Umar (ra) acknowledged something as bid'ah and also considered it hasanah. Now you may argue that it wasnt bid'ah, but Caliph Umar (ra) certainly considered it so and that is what matters.

I was not referring to the hadith about starting a new sunnah (which btw, you would consider a bid'ah as you have explained by way of analogy of doing dua for Prophet Adam (as)).

Either way, I guess we have discussed this enough. I wil try to refrain from posting more.

You wrote:

Wrong reference bro.

I was referring to the narration where the words Bid'ah hasanah arise from, namely the establishing of the taravih jama'ah by Caliph Umar. That was where Caliph Umar (ra) acknowledged something as bid'ah and also considered it hasanah. Now you may argue that it wasnt bid'ah, but Caliph Umar (ra) certainly considered it so and that is what matters.

I was not referring to the hadith about starting a new sunnah (which btw, you would consider a bid'ah as you have explained by way of analogy of doing dua for Prophet Adam (as)).

 

Either way, I guess we have discussed this enough. I wil try to refrain from posting more.

your understanding of hadith is as bad as your knowledge on a simple nawfal like salatul duha

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”

Offering Taraweeh prayer in congregation is something that is

established by the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah

be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)

stated the reason why he did not persist in offering this prayer in

congregation, which is that he feared that it might be made obligatory. This

reason cased to be applicable after the Prophet (peace and blessings of

Allaah be upon him) died, because when he (peace and blessings of

Allaah be upon him) died, the wahy (revelation) ceased and there was no

longer any worry that it might be made obligatory. Once the reason, which

was the fear of it being made obligatory, disappeared with the cessation of

the wahy, then the fact that it is Sunnah to offer this prayer in

congregation resumed.
 

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.

Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah.

So in other words it wasnt done regularly. Thank you for the clarification.

You use massive quotes to get past the problem that you have inherited that Caliph Umar (ra) considered it bid'ah and considered it hasanah.

Now you can quote all the people you like, shout that it wasn't bid'ah or anything else but you do not change the fact that Caliph Umar (ra) called it bid'ah.

Your word or his? Not a tough call.

I suspect that the issue is that you consider one definition of bid'ah, but then apply the rulings of another scholar who defined bid'ah differently. I posted a blog on this confusion the other day.

You wrote:

Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah.

So in other words it wasnt done regularly. Thank you for the clarification.

You use massive quotes to get past the problem that you have inherited that Caliph Umar (ra) considered it bid'ah and considered it hasanah.

Now you can quote all the people you like, shout that it wasn't bid'ah or anything else but you do not change the fact that Caliph Umar (ra) called it bid'ah.

Your word or his? Not a tough call.

I suspect that the issue is that you consider one definition of bid'ah, but then apply the rulings of another scholar who defined bid'ah differently. I posted a blog on this confusion the other day.

again the lame explanation

rasulullah saw only fasted for minimum 10 years people have done it for more then that as they started earlier and lvied longer so what are you gonna say now those who did fasts for 20-40 years they have commited bidah, or their extea fasting has become bidah, obviously your logic is illogical for it makes no sense like everything esle you say

if you read my previous posts regarding this you wouldve read this

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

the problem is you need to improve your reading skills

and the other probelm si since your aqeedah is flawed yor udnerstanding of everything is equally as flawed right from sufis claiming to be followers of hanafi fiqh to everything else because your main creed and fondation is not even their to start with

More obfuscation.

The prophet fasted in ramadan for the rest of his life. He did not deliberately miss a fast of Ramadan. Unlike how he deliberately missed a taraveeh.

Missing the taraveeh by a conscious decision is something that has weight. You cannot ignore that and pretend that it is nothing. It has value like all other actions of the prophet (saw).

If you follow the Ibn Taymiyyah view, then taraveeh is not bid'ah as it did not contradict the sunnah.

If you follow the Imam Shafi'i view, it is a bid'ah and it was called so by none other than the leader of the believers, the representative of the prophet (saw), caliph Umar (ra). However by it being bid'ah it was not considered a bad thing but an excellent thing. Because it did not contradict sunnah and it even strengthened it.

In the same way, import duties were implemented by amirul mu'mineen, but they did not contradict the Qur'an and sunnah.

New Amir ul Mu'mineens were selected in new and novel ways but once again as long as it didnt contradict the Qur'an and sunnah, it was considered allowed.

Even no longer paying alms to a tribe that the prophet gave alms to was seen as complying with the intention of the Qur'an and sunnah and not seen as a bad thing.

Changing the land tax rules for muslim owners of land in Mesopotamia was also not seen as contradiction with the Qur'an but a different understanding of the Qur'an and sunnah and it was considered allowed.

Caliph Abu Bakr nominated Caliph Umar (ra) and put a condition on having him as successor - namely the consquest of Mesopotamia will not be stopped (in the time of Caliph Abu Bakr (ra), the two had a different opinion on conquering Mesopotamia where Hadhrat Umar (ra) was not majorly in favour of it). This condition was a new thing, however it was not contradicting the Qur'an and sunnah, so it wasn't opposed.

Changing the capital of the Muslim world is also something which did not contraditc Qur'an and sunnah. Hence it was also allowed.

In the same way you can go through Muslim history and new and novel new acts (bid'ahs) were not opposed as they did not contradict the Qur'an and sunnah. One group called them hasanah, the other called them "only literal. they are not bid'ah in essence".

The same goes with modern weaponry by Salahuddin  Ayyubi and even the ottomans (though the Jannissaries considered guns bid'ah and long tried to stick to swords). As jihad is a religious act, these cannot be ignored. However they were not considered contradictory to the Qur'an and sunnah, so adopted.

The problem is when you get confused over differing definitions and try to pretend that the view of Imam shafi'i is other than it was - in the other topic I have linked to a printout of the page from his book as evidence that Imam Shafi'i did accept Bid'ah hasanah. Where you get confused is you start from "all bid'ah is against qur'an and sunnah" and then ask "can there be bid'ah hasanah" and you get all mixed up. adding to your confusion is scholars of the past not being in favour of new acts that others thought good (but they contradicted the Qur'an and sunnah). Those acts were condemned not simply for being new, but for being against Qur'an and sunnah. A modern equivalent would be "jihadi" groups that favour bombing markets or sending suicide bombers to kill other Muslims. They say the end result is good and useful and some people were taken in by this for a while. But over time it is shown how it is bad and should have been rejected from the start as it goes against Qur'an and Sunnah.

Not your fault that it all confused you as you are not a scholar.

the problem is you need to improve your reading skills

Like reading this:

“Innovated matters in religion (min Al-Umur) are of two kinds: 1) Whatever is innovated and contravenes the Book, or the Sunnah, or a narration, or Ijma‘ (consensus) – then that is an innovation of misguidance. 2) Whatever is innovated of [any and all good things [min al-khayr] and that does not contradict any of these – then this is a novelty which is not blameworthy. And ‘Umar (radiya Allahu ‘anhu) said concerning the night-prayer in the month of Ramadan: ‘ni’matu bida’at hadhihi‘ what a good innovation this is’ meaning it was innovated without having existed before and, even so, there was nothing in it that contradicted the above.”

It kind of kills your argument when the works of one of the Scholars you pretend to follow and sometimes give lip service to is a reply to the specific title of your topic.

You say that there is no bid'ah hasanah in Islam. Imam Shafi'i' (who you pretend is of the same opinion as you) writes in his book that there is bid'ah hasanah.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept your view in this matter.

If improved reading skills means ignoring the words of a scholar who I pretend to follow the views of, ignoring the hadith of the prophet on a specific matter and argue the opposite, ignoring the Qur'an when in it God sends peace upon a prophet (as) on the day of his birth, ignoring and mock the Qur'an telling us to proclaim and celebrate the favours and mercies that have been given to us, while stating that the prophet is a mercy to everyone, I am sorry but I would rather lack your elite reading skills.

You wrote:

the problem is you need to improve your reading skills

Like reading this:

“Innovated matters in religion (min Al-Umur) are of two kinds: 1) Whatever is innovated and contravenes the Book, or the Sunnah, or a narration, or Ijma‘ (consensus) – then that is an innovation of misguidance. 2) Whatever is innovated of [any and all good things [min al-khayr] and that does not contradict any of these – then this is a novelty which is not blameworthy. And ‘Umar (radiya Allahu ‘anhu) said concerning the night-prayer in the month of Ramadan: ‘ni’matu bida’at hadhihi‘ what a good innovation this is’ meaning it was innovated without having existed before and, even so, there was nothing in it that contradicted the above.”

It kind of kills your argument when the works of one of the Scholars you pretend to follow and sometimes give lip service to is a reply to the specific title of your topic.

You say that there is no bid'ah hasanah in Islam. Imam Shafi'i' (who you pretend is of the same opinion as you) writes in his book that there is bid'ah hasanah.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept your view in this matter.

If improved reading skills means ignoring the words of a scholar who I pretend to follow the views of, ignoring the hadith of the prophet on a specific matter and argue the opposite, ignoring the Qur'an when in it God sends peace upon a prophet (as) on the day of his birth, ignoring and mock the Qur'an telling us to proclaim and celebrate the favours and mercies that have been given to us, while stating that the prophet is a mercy to everyone, I am sorry but I would rather lack your elite reading skills.

its linguistic bidah you deaf dumb and blind

firs tof all imam shafi in the other quote said which is sahih then what are you gona do now, obviously you are the one who now is playing the fatwa shopping game, picking and choosing what suits you fo its one man with the 2 statement first is the oine you claim then theirs this

imam shafi ‘whosoeverdeclares something good has made it part of the sharee’ah,’ and he said

in Ar-Risaalah (pg.507), ‘declaring things good (istihsaan) is a form

of exercising desires’.

so now we have 2 statments by one scholar which do you follow and why, now from the begining i never relied on imam shafi i relied on muhamamd saw every bidah is harram  hadith, secondly i followed imam abu hanifa rh explanation of hadith follwoed by ibn taymiyyah and the rest

Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani that whenever the term 'bidah' is used

to refer to a praiseworthy matter it is being employed with its broader

linguistic meaning. Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Bari (Maktabah Salafiyyah print, 13/278)

وأما "

البدع " فهو جمع بدعة وهي كل شيء ليس له مثال تقدم فيشمل لغة ما يحمد ويذم ،

ويختص في عرف أهل الشرع بما يذم وإن وردت في المحمود فعلى معناها اللغوي

As for innovations (البدع), it is the plural of innovation (بدعة)

and it is everything which does not have any prior example.

Linguistically, [the word] encompasses what is both praiseworthy and

blameworthy. In the usage of the people of the legislation (i.e.

Scholars) it is specifically for what is blameworthy and if it is used in connection to what is praiseworthy, then it is upon its linguistic meaning.

Al-Bayhaqi, Ibn Hajar

and Ibn Taymiyyah (and others) have cited the statements of al-Shafi'i,

so we can document them here for the record. Al-Bayhaqi relates in

Manaqib al-Shafi'i (1/469) with his isnad that Imam al-Shafi'i said:

المحدثات

من الأمور ضربان: أحدهما ما أحدث مما يخالف كتابا أو سنة أو أثرا أو

إجماعا، فهذه البدعة الضلالة، والثانية: ما أحدث من الخير لا خلاف فيه

لواحد من هذا، وهذه محدثة غير مذمومة

The

newly-invented matters are of two types: The first of them is that

which has been introduced from that which opposes [something from] the

book, or [something from] the sunnah, or a narration, or [a matter of]

consensus. This is the misguided innovation. And the second is that

which has been introduced of goodness and there is no opposition to

anyone of these things [qur'an, sunnah, athar, ijmaa']. This is the

newly-invented matter which is not blameworthy.

Al-Mubarakfuri wrote in Tuhfatul al-Ahwazi (7/366):

 

فقوله صلى

الله عليه وسلم كل بدعة ضلالة من جوامع الكلم لا يخرج عنه شيء وهو أصل

عظيم من أصول الدين وأما ما وقع في كلام السلف من استحسان بعض البدع فإنما

ذلك في البدع اللغوية لا الشرعية فمن ذلك قول عمر رضي الله عنه في التراويح

نعمت البدعة

For

his saying (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam), "Every innovation is

misguidance" is from the concise, profound words (jawaami' al-kalim),

nothing exits from them, and it is a mighty foundation from the

foundations of the religion. As for whta occurs in the speech of some of

the Salaf of considering some of the innovations to be good, then that

is in relation to linguistic (usage of) bidah, not the Shariah (usage). From (the examples) of that is the saying of Umar (radiallaahu anhu) regarding the tarawih (prayer), "What an excellent innovation."

And Ibn Katheer said in his tafseer (Dar Tayyibah, 1422H, 1/398):

 

والبدعة

على قسمين تارة تكون بدعة شرعية كقوله فإن كل محدثة بدعة وكل بدعة ضلالة

وتارة تكون بدعة لغوية كقول أمير المؤمنين عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه عن

جمعه إياهم على صلاة التراويح واستمرارهم : نعمت البدعة هذه

And

bidah is of two types. Sometimes it can be a legislative innovation

(bidah shar'iyyah), such as his saying, "Every newly-invented matter is

an innovation and every innovation is misguidance" and sometimes it can

be a linguistic innovation (bidah lughawiyyah), such as the saying of

Amir al-Mu'minin Umar bin al-Khattaab, (radiallaahu anhu) about his

bringing them together for the tarawih prayer and their continuance upon that, "What an excellent innovation this is."

here learn the difference between the 2 term

a person reiving the wearing of trousers above ankles will be called bidah where it was never used but is this bidah? no this is bidah in the sense that it is newly revived and new in that place and newly taught thing

you dont just lack reading skills you lack in other departments aswell such as common sense

Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). Verse (2:18)

Re: bold ayah at the end.
How can people so easily use such verses against other Muslims?! This ayah is talking about hypocrites, people who have totally lost their way and now Allah is letting them do what they want, they will not be guided. How dare you put someone you don't even know into such a category?! Any one of us could be hypocrites but how can YOU say it to someone?! Please for your own sake, don't say anything else.

TPOS wrote:

Re: bold ayah at the end.

How can people so easily use such verses against other Muslims?! This ayah is talking about hypocrites, people who have totally lost their way and now Allah is letting them do what they want, they will not be guided. How dare you put someone you don't even know into such a category?! Any one of us could be hypocrites but how can YOU say it to someone?! Please for your own sake, don't say anything else.

not just hypocrites disbelievers and anyone who rejects the truth let it be quran sunnah etc

in this case i didnt say he is one of them rather a warning to not be one of them or act like one of them who sees the truth and yet reject it

If Allah wills, He can seal the heart from guidance. “All the hearts of the offspring of Adam are between two fingers of Ar-Rehman’s Fingers, as one heart. He turns it (in any direction) as He wills. Then Allaah’s Messenger said, “O Allaah! The Turner of the hearts, turn our heart towards Your obedience.” [Saheeh Muslim]

Asad
:
And so, the parable of those who are bent on denying the truth is

that of the beast which hears the shepherd's cry, and hears in it

nothing but the sound of a voice and a call. ¹³⁸  Deaf are

they, and dumb, and blind: for they do not use their reason.

Malik
:
The parable of those who reject faith is like the cattle which,

call out to them as one may, hear nothing but a shout and a cry

since they are unable to understand; they are deaf, dumb and

blind, and understand nothing.

Pickthall
:
The likeness of those who disbelieve (in relation to the

messenger) is as the likeness of one who calleth unto that which

heareth naught except a shout and cry. Deaf, dumb, blind,

therefore they have no sense.

Yusuf Ali
:
The parable of those who reject faith is as if one were to shout

like a goat-herd to things that listen to nothing but calls and

cries; deaf dumb and blind they are void of wisdom.  ¹⁷⁰ 

 ¹⁷¹ 

inshallah may allah guide us and carry on guiding us until death

hypocrite/rejecting the truth - it's still a very heavy (can't think of another word) ayah to use. And if u want to be a warning then they so - I'm not saying you weren't warning, I'm saying you should be clearer.

This method of warning really irritates me.

Don't worry he classes me as Muslim.

He quotes long texts but gets confused as to wha they mean and the masively long posts turn into obfuscating his confusion.

I have shown him how his views are incompatible with the qur'an, the sunnah, the sahabahs and the salaf through quotes and references to actual events.

So he calls me deaf dumb and blind.

Its his prerogative.

You wrote:

Don't worry he classes me as Muslim.

He quotes long texts but gets confused as to wha they mean and the masively long posts turn into obfuscating his confusion.

I have shown him how his views are incompatible with the qur'an, the sunnah, the sahabahs and the salaf through quotes and references to actual events.

So he calls me deaf dumb and blind.

Its his prerogative.

yes you sure done that usually they have the wrong meaning misquoted understood wrong

such as you claimed salatul duha was a innvoation when it wasnt you claimed tarawih in jamah is a bidah when muhammad saw led it on 3 occasions and then decided not to because he feared it would be made obligatory and in the jarir ra hadith rasulullah saw used a charity example to poor people and called that a hasanah and reviving something like that is sunnah hasanah as it is reiviving a sunnah but again you fail to udnerstand it any way putting that aside

i ask you a question a simple one

in umar ra caliphate some sahaba ra were saying muta is halal so umar ra said it is harram, after that some muslims claimed umar ra is innvoating a new action by prohibiting this, now did umar ra declare muta harram and innovate this

answer this

That is a simple matter.

Some did not know the hadith banning it. Hadhrat Umar (ra) did. Hence he was not innovating.

such as you claimed salatul duha was a innvoation when it wasnt you claimed tarawih in jamah is a bidah

The difference here is that I am ready to admit my errors and when you provided evidence suggesting that Salaatul Duha was actually not a new nafl ibadah, I accepted that.

Now compare this with God telling us to celebrate the favours and mercies from our Lord, which instead of saying "yes, its the Qur'an!" you decided to mock.

You on the other hand pretend that I am the one that came up with the word "Bid'ah" in relation to taraveeh by Jama'ah. They are not my words but the words of Caliph Umar (ra).

You wrote:

That is a simple matter.

Some did not know the hadith banning it. Hadhrat Umar (ra) did. Hence he was not innovating.

such as you claimed salatul duha was a innvoation when it wasnt you claimed tarawih in jamah is a bidah

The difference here is that I am ready to admit my errors and when you provided evidence suggesting that Salaatul Duha was actually not a new nafl ibadah, I accepted that.

Now compare this with God telling us to celebrate the favours and mercies from our Lord, which instead of saying "yes, its the Qur'an!" you decided to mock.

You on the other hand pretend that I am the one that came up with the word "Bid'ah" in relation to taraveeh by Jama'ah. They are not my words but the words of Caliph Umar (ra).

no different to how you have no idea about this scenario

It is proven in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in prayer (Taraweeh) for several nights, then on the third or fourth night he did not come out to them. When morning came he said: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.” 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1129. According to the version narrated by Muslim (761): “But I feared that night prayers would be made obligatory for you and you would not be able to do them.”

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 109

like those sahaba ra were not aware of this you are not aware of that hadith of muhammad saw and if you are then you are not aware of what it means

the scenario of those sahaba ra are similar to yours, they werent aware of the hadith, you are either not aware of the hadith or not aware of what the hadith means

so the matter with you is as simple as you state the sahaba ra scenario is

yes i did decide to mock you because you said this is a evidence to celebrate mawlid so i asked does that mean this is also a evidence to celebrate mawlid for plants, trees, fruits food, water and others

why did i say this because like those examples above muhamamd saw birth scenario is no different it is not a evidence to prove you can celebrate mawlid the term celebrate their is used in a different sense and not related to celebrating mawlid of muhamamd saw or mawlid of plants trees foods fruits water and every other good creation of allah

and i say to you for the sake of argument if they are of umar ra then it is muhammad saw we follow not umar ra, but in this case these are not the correct interpretation of the words of umar ra but rather its this as the scholars of the past said who understading of this hadith or narration is better then you

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 109 

After the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) prayed Taraweeh in small groups and individually, until ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) united them behind a single imam. 

It was narrated that ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadaan to the mosque, and the people were scattered, with one man praying by himself and another with a group of men following his prayer. ‘Umar said: “I think that if I gather them behind one reader, it will be better.” Then he decided to unite them behind Ubayy ibn Ka’b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were praying behind their reader. ‘Umar said: “What a good innovation this is. But the prayer that they forget about and sleep is better than the one they are offering.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1906. 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

You keep repeating the same thing over and over again. This does not change the words used by Caliph Umar (ra).

The bold bit you quotes shows how the prophet decided not to read it that night, breaking the chain.

Having the tarawih in congregation everynight was then not in accordance with this act.

The Prophet not doing something is significant and you cannot just ignore it.

However, praying it every night is not in contravention to the sunnah, so according to Caliph Umar (ra) it was bid'ah hasanah.

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah considers the acts not in contravention to not be bid'ah.

Please try to comprehend what I have wrote here, I have repeated it multiple times but you still dont seem to get it.

While there may be two differing views on bid'ah is, both opinions often call the same acts as bad and wrong and often approve the same acts. This is a dispute in semantics. It exists.

The issue occurrs when the non scholars then use these differing semantics and get lost in quotes that use the other semantic.

On the other hand you could accept that we will both continue repeating the same things, you will keep losing your temper and decide that you have had enough of pointless arguing. I doubt that though.

You seem to have access to a lot of texts but you dont seeem to sit back and contemplate over them, are argumentative over semantics rather trying to understand the meanings.

You wrote:

You keep repeating the same thing over and over again. This does not change the words used by Caliph Umar (ra).

The bold bit you quotes shows how the prophet decided not to read it that night, breaking the chain.

Having the tarawih in congregation everynight was then not in accordance with this act.

The Prophet not doing something is significant and you cannot just ignore it.

However, praying it every night is not in contravention to the sunnah, so according to Caliph Umar (ra) it was bid'ah hasanah.

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah considers the acts not in contravention to not be bid'ah.

Please try to comprehend what I have wrote here, I have repeated it multiple times but you still dont seem to get it.

While there may be two differing views on bid'ah is, both opinions often call the same acts as bad and wrong and often approve the same acts. This is a dispute in semantics. It exists.

The issue occurrs when the non scholars then use these differing semantics and get lost in quotes that use the other semantic.

On the other hand you could accept that we will both continue repeating the same things, you will keep losing your temper and decide that you have had enough of pointless arguing. I doubt that though.

You seem to have access to a lot of texts but you dont seeem to sit back and contemplate over them, are argumentative over semantics rather trying to understand the meanings.

thats because your brain doesnt have the cells to take it in or understand it

it shows how muhammad saw didnt want to pray because he feared it would be made obligatory

Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in prayer (Taraweeh) for several nights, then on the third or fourth night he did not come out to them. When morning came he said: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.” 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1129

at first i thought you were acting dead dumb and blind  but now your making it look as if you are truly those things

how many times have i told you to read before saying anything but you go on to make a mess out of everything because your not bothered to read what i post because their pasted and in doign this you fail to read the hadith or do any further research on it or them

so again read and use your intellect which allah has blessed you with not like the animal who has a brain but it cant think with it

rasulullah saw didnt say go pray by yourself either so the hadith doesnt show any evidence in to do that either, ehat ti shows is rasulullah saw not coming ojut for his fear of obligatory but told the sahaba ra to continue whichever they want which is either in jamaah or single alone in mosque or home whatever they want meaning he left it open to them but he muhamamd asw also said it is better to do tarawih in jamaah meaning a person who does all tarawih in jamaah is more rewarding how like this

al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

as i said do your research read and use your brain intellect otherwise you mess up

umar ra said ina linguistic term and even if he didnt the saying of muhammad saw takes power over umar ra someone who does mawlid doesnt even understand this one simple thing and would rather follow his flawed view and take a misnterpretated quote of uamr ra then a direct quote of muhammad saw, in this case why bother doing mawlid un nabi you should do mawlid umar instead with the joke of a view you have and the false love you always show for muhammad saw when you dont even follow his sunnah and twsit and fabricate hadith of his and his companions

this happends when individual give more preferense to scholars of today and weak and fabricated texts instead of quran sunnah and the first 3 generation and good classical scholars and their sahih work nto false thing attributed to them

atleast i read you dont have the ability  to do that because you prefare to be blind and just follow your whims and desires

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8MoSFO44k]

I am sure Caliph Umar was more aware of the sayings of the prophet than you or I.

and when he STILL considered it a bid'ah, I think you need to ask yourself who knows the life of the prophet better - you or Caliph Umar.

None of your posts can erase the words of Caliph Umar.

None of your words can erase the words of Imam shafi'i.

You wrote:

I am sure Caliph Umar was more aware of the sayings of the prophet than you or I.

and when he STILL considered it a bid'ah, I think you need to ask yourself who knows the life of the prophet better - you or Caliph Umar.

None of your posts can erase the words of Caliph Umar.

None of your words can erase the words of Imam shafi'i.

so did the sahaba ra who thought muta was still allowed until he was corrected, like that sahaba ra if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong, you use the mutah hadith and claim that sahaba ra was wrong and then corrected by the hadith that proves it was disallowed yet when umar ra is in the exact same position according to your logic then when another sahaba ra narrates a hadith which proves umar ra view is not correct as that hadith no different to the mutah view shows tarawih was done in jamaah tarawih in jamaah is more rewarding then single you reject it and it is not a bidah but sunnah

again this is nothing but following whims and desires

the imam shafi words are proven wrong by muhammad saw if again seen from your point of view and the view of other imams is stronger as its agreed by scholars such as ibn taymiyyah ibn kathir and the rest so again this proves nothing

this is why  like shias you are a fake ali ra said you say you love me but when the time comes you fail, you are no different you claim to love muhammad saw but when the time came in which muhammad saw forbided bidah said tarawih in jamaah is better and said he loves it in jamaah more you took preference to other people over him proving your all fakes, your love your obediance your so called celebration is nothing but a show and fake, for when real matters come you ignore it and choose others over muhammad saw

its funny how you ask me who knew muhammad saw life better me or umar ra when you yourself ignore this

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 109

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

again you think umar ra wouldnt even be aware of tarawih, when umar ra saw people reading tarawih he simply said why  are they doing it seperately which first shows he is aware of both tarawih and jamaah hadith of muhammad saw and then he revived it

but again jokers like you who are so blind would rather use this then the hadith of muhammad saw to match your desire, all of a sudden the very people who claim to follow muhammad saw start following someone else, rather then following the hadith of muhamamd saw regarding tarawih you twist umar ibn al khattab ra and take that, so waht happened to your blind love of muhammad saw it doesnt look like love to me since yo dont even want to follow his sunnah but want to  do bidah isntead, to me your nothign but a fake and so are the people like you who are sufis of this kind

all a bunch of fakes like the shias are fake to ali ra

you said none of those words can erase imam shafi or umar ra well no words can erase the words of muhamamd saw whether it be umar ra or imam shafi for we follow quran and sunnah not quran and imam shafi and umar ra

but again fakes like you wouldnt understand this

you say "i am sure caliph is aware...." then when the tarawih hadith is shown all of a sudden to you umar ra doesnt know this or ignored this or you ignore the hadith all together

and then when it is shows tarawih is a sunnah you say its a bidah, and when umar ra is aware of the hadith eh is aware of muhammad saw life you still claim he viewed it bidah now why would umar ra sonsider a sunnah bidah

this is illogical for umar ra to consider a sunnah fo muhammad saw bidah so again what logic are you using you say:

umar ra knew muhamamd saw life better then us, then natuurally he knows hte tarawih hadith

umar ra still viewed it bidah despite knowing this

now seriously what logic are you using do you even use your brain when posting or do you just blindly write what your pirs tell you?

now i think you need to ask yourself who knew the lfie and hadith and understood the religion better you or umar ra, and would he say stu[pid things that doesnt make sense liek you do such as umar ra knew the lfie of muhammad saw and kenw a sunnah and still called it bidah???? imagine umar ra calling the use of miswak bidah is that possible? no for its a sunnah same as tarawih its a sunnah so why would eh call it bidah

again what are you talking about

The disagreement over mut'ah is different - some sahabahs thought it still allowed, but other sahabahs (namely atleast Caliph Umar (ra)) corrected them.

Whereas in this matter you will find no quote in history from another sahabi, salaf saliheen or probably even any later scholar saying that Caliph Umar was wrong. I suspect that you are the first.

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

I do not think I can add anything after that.

Discussion over.

I haven't kept up with this discussion but 

ABUELA DID YOU SERIOUSLY SAY

Quote:

 if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

What the hell! How can we take you seriously, now?!

TPOS wrote:

I haven't kept up with this discussion but 

ABUELA DID YOU SERIOUSLY SAY

Quote:

 if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

What the hell! How can we take you seriously, now?!

havent you heard of the hadith in which ibn abbas ra during calipha of ali ra was saying mutah is halal and then ali ra corrected him it is not shocking to se sahaba ra getting things wrong at times they are human, but in umar ra case i am saying if he did not saying he did if he did which he didnt then it is muhammad saw we follow not umar ra such as ali ra said muhammad saw said mutah is harram to ibn abbas ra not he is saying it thats why it is harram in the end it is quran and sunnha we follow not quran and sahaba ra

now seriously hasnt "you" been teahcing you anything of value? or does he spend the whole time jsut talking about dhikr and whatever other thigns he does

second during fitna muawiyyah ra was in the wrong and ali ra on the right, sahaba ra are not infallible otherwise fitna woudlve never happened but again people like sufis misquote them such as ibn umar ra saying do not say that dua after sneezing and " you" what a name he kept for himself says it means soemthing else when the hadith is clear he was reffering to  the dua but he lies and makes something else out of it

TPOS wrote:

I haven't kept up with this discussion but 

ABUELA DID YOU SERIOUSLY SAY

Quote:

 if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

What the hell! How can we take you seriously, now?!

It was narrated from ‘Ali that he heard Ibn ‘Abbaas permitting mut’ah marriage, and he said, “Wait a minute, O Ibn ‘Abbaas, for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade it on the day of Khaybar and (he also forbade) the meat of tame donkeys.”

Narrated by Muslim, 1407.

You wrote:

The disagreement over mut'ah is different - some sahabahs thought it still allowed, but other sahabahs (namely atleast Caliph Umar (ra)) corrected them.

Whereas in this matter you will find no quote in history from another sahabi, salaf saliheen or probably even any later scholar saying that Caliph Umar was wrong. I suspect that you are the first.

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

I do not think I can add anything after that.

Discussion over.

that is because they all said this you blind deaf and dumb how many times do i need to post it

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 10 al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

now tell me when muhammad saw said this how is it a bidah you blind in the eyes and brain

the similarity between this and the muta is the sahaba ra wasnt aware and the hadith of rasulullah saw was their to prove him wrong same here if umar ra said what you claim then muhammad saw hadith is available to prove what is correct regarding this

but agian from above we can see umar ra was aware of this aswell

The sahabah's can correct each other, but you can't correct them.