TPOS wrote:

The sahabah's can correct each other, but you can't correct them. 

im not muhammad saw is with his sayings and allah is when he says obey me and my prophet in the quran

allah doesnt say obey me and the companions of my prophet

I understand why You kept replying to you.

TPOS wrote:

I understand why You kept replying to you.

because his understanding of hadith is as clueless as you

you claim to follow muhammad saw yet when the time comes you prefare to do your bidah over him

such as muhammad saw says

al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of
Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

and you the guy claims it is a bidah when hadith of muhammad saw proves its not and he uses umar ra as a excuse

here you have muhammad saw and yet he says umar ra say  this clearly proves how much he loves muhammad saw theat he owuld prefare sahaba ra over muhammad saw

second his quote of umar ra is misquoted like yuor explanation of the hadith was grossly minsterpretated

umar ra was aware of the tarawih cas eof muhammad saw and he said lets do it like that again and he said bidah meaning new in his era, such as a person giving a book a person never read before regarding islam and he says that person is doing something bidah meaning something new thats how umar ra meant it and the hadith and umar ra response of knowing tarawih prayer clearly shows this yet his rpeferance is bidah not muhammad saw stating what he did in the hadith i posted above

i always knew sufi lvoe for muhammad saw wa sfake didnt expect it to be this fake

Caliph Umar (ra) had a better understanding of the sunnah than any of us. If other sahabah disagreed with him, there would be record of dissent. Either provide dissenting voices from the sahabah or shut up.

You state that there is no bid'ah hasanah as suggested by the words of Caliph Umar (ra) and fatawa of Imam Shafi'i, you state that there is no room for manouvre in the hadith about bid'ah and it talks about them all, thus rejecting the view of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah stating that some bid'ahs are lughwiyyah (which often probably Imam shafi'i's classification as hasanah), and then you make your own distinctions allowing new things when it suits your argument - distinctions net present in your translation of the hadith.

If you consider Caliph Umar (ra) wrong, end of discussion - it doesn't matter what logic you try to use after that. You are probably the first person to ever call Caliph Umar (ra) wrong on this matter, your views are not in accordance with the qur'an, sunnah, actions of the sahabah, the salaf, Imam Shafi'i or even Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah.

Please stop talking and contemplate your words:

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

and realise the absurdity of your position.

Go away.

You wrote:

Caliph Umar (ra) had a better understanding of the sunnah than any of us. If other sahabah disagreed with him, there would be record of dissent. Either provide dissenting voices from the sahabah or shut up.

If you consider Caliph Umar (ra) wrong, end of discussion - it doesn't matter what logic you try to use after that. You are probably the first person to ever call Caliph Umar (ra) wrong on this matter, your views are not in accordance with the qur'an, sunnah, actions of the sahabah, the salaf, Imam Shafi'i or even Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah.

So goodbye. Please stop talking.

Go contemplate your words:

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

and realise the absurdity of your position.

listen liar who narated this?

and read my posts i was never in the view of umar ra being wrong i said if we use your logic the that would be the case but my view is that umar ra meant the linguistic term which all  scholars agree on so thats my view so dont try to use your typical sufi game on me, for i know your games you draw people in your game and then defea them to prove yourself correct again i will post my view below but first

al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

the sahaba ra did which shows they were aware of the tarawih and umar ra doing this is also from this thats why their was nothing to disagree with who narrated the hadith above your great grandfather or something or was it a sahaba ra and this scenario below

al-Bukhaari (1129) and Muslim (761) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed one night in the mosque, and the people followed him in prayer. Then he prayed the next night, and many people came. Then they gathered on the third or fourth night, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not come out to them. The next morning he said: “I saw what you did, and nothing kept me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.” And that was in Ramadaan.

now that was  a major event was umar ra unaware of this or not?

After the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) prayed Taraweeh in small groups and individually, until ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) united them behind a single imam. 

It was narrated that ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadaan to the mosque, and the people were scattered, with one man praying by himself and another with a group of men following his prayer. ‘Umar said: “I think that if I gather them behind one reader, it will be better.” Then he decided to unite them behind Ubayy ibn Ka’b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were praying behind their reader. ‘Umar said: “What a good innovation this is. But the prayer that they forget about and sleep is better than the one they are offering.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1906.

again hadith shows sahaba ra continued to rpay tarawih in both jamaah and alone in this mosque

so umar ra was aware of the tarawih and it being done in jamaah by muhammad saw and revived it so again if i have this view how can i be in the view of umar ra being wrong here? answer this

both to you and tpos

abualabbasassaffah7 wrote:

You wrote:

The disagreement over mut'ah is different - some sahabahs thought it still allowed, but other sahabahs (namely atleast Caliph Umar (ra)) corrected them.

Whereas in this matter you will find no quote in history from another sahabi, salaf saliheen or probably even any later scholar saying that Caliph Umar was wrong. I suspect that you are the first.

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

I do not think I can add anything after that.

Discussion over.

that is because they all said this you blind deaf and dumb how many times do i need to post it

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

 

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 10 al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

 

now tell me when muhammad saw said this how is it a bidah you blind in the eyes and brain

 

the similarity between this and the muta is the sahaba ra wasnt aware and the hadith of rasulullah saw was their to prove him wrong same here if umar ra said what you claim then muhammad saw hadith is available to prove what is correct regarding this

 

but agian from above we can see umar ra was aware of this aswell

to everyone this is my view regarding umar ra and tarawih case, not what you was trying to take me towards its te above view not the other which i used as a example of his logic and then using hadiht of muhammad saw  

but the psot her eis my view

abualabbasassaffah7 wrote:

You wrote:

The disagreement over mut'ah is different - some sahabahs thought it still allowed, but other sahabahs (namely atleast Caliph Umar (ra)) corrected them.

Whereas in this matter you will find no quote in history from another sahabi, salaf saliheen or probably even any later scholar saying that Caliph Umar was wrong. I suspect that you are the first.

if umar ra did call it bidah then he made a mistake and was wrong

I do not think I can add anything after that.

Discussion over.

that is because they all said this you blind deaf and dumb how many times do i need to post it

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, when refuting the view of those who quoted ‘Umar’s words “What a good innovation this is” as meaning that innovation (bid’ah) is permissible: 

With regard to qiyaam in Ramadaan, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) introduced this to his ummah, and he led them in prayer for a number of nights, because at his time they used to pray in congregation and individually. But he did not persist in leading them in one congregation, lest that be made obligatory for them. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, sharee’ah was established (and would not change after that). When ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) became caliph, he united them behind one imam, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, who united the people in one congregation on the orders of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the way of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me; cling tightly to it.” So what he did was Sunnah but he said, “What a good innovation this is,” because it was an innovation in the linguistic sense, as they were doing something that they had not done during the life of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), i.e., gathering to do this, but it is Sunnah in the shar’i sense.”  

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 22/234, 235

Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of. Nothing stopped him from doing it regularly except the fear that it might be made obligatory upon his ummah. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was kind and compassionate towards his ummah. ‘Umar knew from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the obligatory duties would not be increased or decreased after his death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he revived this practice and enjoined it upon the people. That happened in 14 AH, and ‘Umar has the honour of being the one who revived this Sunnah.  

 

Al-Tamheed, 8/108, 10 al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”

 

now tell me when muhammad saw said this how is it a bidah you blind in the eyes and brain

 

the similarity between this and the muta is the sahaba ra wasnt aware and the hadith of rasulullah saw was their to prove him wrong same here if umar ra said what you claim then muhammad saw hadith is available to prove what is correct regarding this

 

but agian from above we can see umar ra was aware of this aswell

to everyone this is my view regarding umar ra and tarawih case, not what you was trying to take me towards its te above view not the other which i used as a example of his logic and then using hadiht of muhammad saw  

but the psot here is my view

Peace be upon both of you.

The things you two are discussing are becoming pathetic and the way you debate about such things is even more pathetic. Just stop even if you think you're right. Labelling someone who disagrees with you with words such as scum, liar and blind, is extremely childish. It would really be appreciated if both of you say, we disagree with each other but because this thread is going around in circles we will stop discussing such topics and leave them as they are. No one seems to be benefitting.

Just remember, you don't always need to have the last say. Just because one of you decides to refrain from posting and commenting does not mean you don't have anything to say. It simply means I am wasting time and I have gained an insight into making better use of my knowledge elsewhere, and i have done my part and said what I need to and now I will stop. That's all. So I would suggest one of you, if not both of you, acts upon what I have said, inshaAllah.

Hummus.

Hummus wrote:

Peace be upon both of you.

The things you two are discussing are becoming pathetic and the way you debate about such things is even more pathetic. Just stop even if you think you're right. Labelling someone who disagrees with you with words such as scum, liar and blind, is extremely childish. It would really be appreciated if both of you say, we disagree with each other but because this thread is going around in circles we will stop discussing such topics and leave them as they are. No one seems to be benefitting.

Just remember, you don't always need to have the last say. Just because one of you decides to refrain from posting and commenting does not mean you don't have anything to say. It simply means I am wasting time and I have gained an insight into making better use of my knowledge elsewhere, and i have done my part and said what I need to and now I will stop. That's all. So I would suggest one of you, if not both of you, acts upon what I have said, inshaAllah.

Hummus.

i didnt call him that because he disagrees with me i said that because he is attributing words to me which i never said something he has done on more then one occasion now so obviosuly he fits in to them because wehtehr he is doing it intentionally or unkowingly he is still claiming i said somethign which i didnt which is a typical sufi game all of them play

as sheikh abu abdis salam said they try to suck people in their game then ebat them at it by changing the whole discussion

Moved to here:

http://www.therevival.co.uk/forum/general/10842

If you dont want me to respond to this topic, please stop posting in it.

I have moved your post to a new topic. Link in in the post above.

Topic locked.

this forum belongs to you i cant tell you to psot in my topic or not its upto you brother

jazakallahukhair for creating a topic for that