Are we allowed to Dance?

[quote=Lilly]Yeah Feef!! do your homework; instead of revivaling..tutut!!!
Guess where i am? :p[/quote]
At least i'm at home unlike you, revivaling from college! :O

What can i say? Guilty as charged 😃 im a revival otaku 😃
now im in the bus on my way home..

[quote=Lilly]I thnk im gona change my name now... :doubt:
loool what language is that in Seraphim?? Yeah Feef!! do your homework; instead of revivaling..tutut!!!
Guess where i am? :p[/quote]

Why u gonna change your name? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[quote=Lilly]What can i say? Guilty as charged 😃 im a revival otaku 😃
now im in the bus on my way home..[/quote]

Be careful you don't tramp any pedestrians.

[quote=zdc][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I don't understand why people are ganging up on zdc for saying he wants to see his wife pole dance :/
Although thats a private matter and doesn't/shouldn't be discussed with the whole world
But if he was talking about Lilly being a potential partner and asking her to pole dance...that's just SO wrong. :|[/quote]

lol?
Am i missing out on something here????
:O[/quote]

People around here are starting to think I wanna marry Lilly and make her pole dance..... stupid is'nt it, lilly could'nt do that to save her life.

Besides Lilly and me??

Actually I could sing a nice song about her,
Lilly Oh Lilly! You make me so Dizzy! Lilly Oh Lilly! You make make heart go all Fizzy, Lilly Oh Lilly, people think I am so silly, Lilly Oh Lilly! you are still my Lilly!!

Hey Lilly, what you think about this?

L - Little
I - Irresistable
L - Lady
L - Looking
Y - Yummy

Nice Huh? I am thinking of putting it as my sig!![/quote]

Omg! I can not believe it!
zdc complimented, I can't say it, a WOMAN!

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=zdc][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I don't understand why people are ganging up on zdc for saying he wants to see his wife pole dance :/
Although thats a private matter and doesn't/shouldn't be discussed with the whole world
But if he was talking about Lilly being a potential partner and asking her to pole dance...that's just SO wrong. :|[/quote]

lol?
Am i missing out on something here????
:O[/quote]

People around here are starting to think I wanna marry Lilly and make her pole dance..... stupid is'nt it, lilly could'nt do that to save her life.

Besides Lilly and me??

Actually I could sing a nice song about her,
Lilly Oh Lilly! You make me so Dizzy! Lilly Oh Lilly! You make make heart go all Fizzy, Lilly Oh Lilly, people think I am so silly, Lilly Oh Lilly! you are still my Lilly!!

Hey Lilly, what you think about this?

L - Little
I - Irresistable
L - Lady
L - Looking
Y - Yummy

Nice Huh? I am thinking of putting it as my sig!![/quote]

Omg! I can not believe it!
zdc complimented, I can't say it, a WOMAN![/quote]

when did zdc say that?! i completely missed that!
i dont know if you're being REALLY evil or nice.
Either way...it feels wrong... =/

[quote=Lilly][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=zdc][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I don't understand why people are ganging up on zdc for saying he wants to see his wife pole dance :/
Although thats a private matter and doesn't/shouldn't be discussed with the whole world
But if he was talking about Lilly being a potential partner and asking her to pole dance...that's just SO wrong. :|[/quote]

lol?
Am i missing out on something here????
:O[/quote]

People around here are starting to think I wanna marry Lilly and make her pole dance..... stupid is'nt it, lilly could'nt do that to save her life.

Besides Lilly and me??

Actually I could sing a nice song about her,
Lilly Oh Lilly! You make me so Dizzy! Lilly Oh Lilly! You make make heart go all Fizzy, Lilly Oh Lilly, people think I am so silly, Lilly Oh Lilly! you are still my Lilly!!

Hey Lilly, what you think about this?

L - Little
I - Irresistable
L - Lady
L - Looking
Y - Yummy

Nice Huh? I am thinking of putting it as my sig!![/quote]

Omg! I can not believe it!
zdc complimented, I can't say it, a WOMAN![/quote]

when did zdc say that?! i completely missed that!
i dont know if you're being REALLY evil or nice.
Either way...it feels wrong... =/[/quote]

I wouldn't be evil! It's genuine shock horror. He's usually babbling on about his dislike of the woman race.

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=Lilly][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=zdc][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I don't understand why people are ganging up on zdc for saying he wants to see his wife pole dance :/
Although thats a private matter and doesn't/shouldn't be discussed with the whole world
But if he was talking about Lilly being a potential partner and asking her to pole dance...that's just SO wrong. :|[/quote]

lol?
Am i missing out on something here????
:O[/quote]

People around here are starting to think I wanna marry Lilly and make her pole dance..... stupid is'nt it, lilly could'nt do that to save her life.

Besides Lilly and me??

Actually I could sing a nice song about her,
Lilly Oh Lilly! You make me so Dizzy! Lilly Oh Lilly! You make make heart go all Fizzy, Lilly Oh Lilly, people think I am so silly, Lilly Oh Lilly! you are still my Lilly!!

Hey Lilly, what you think about this?

L - Little
I - Irresistable
L - Lady
L - Looking
Y - Yummy

Nice Huh? I am thinking of putting it as my sig!![/quote]

Omg! I can not believe it!
zdc complimented, I can't say it, a WOMAN![/quote]

when did zdc say that?! i completely missed that!
i dont know if you're being REALLY evil or nice.
Either way...it feels wrong... =/[/quote]

I wouldn't be evil! It's genuine shock horror. He's usually babbling on about his dislike of the woman race.[/quote]

NOT YOU! zdc...

U completely missed the entire point of what I just wrote

[quote=Lilly][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=Lilly][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=zdc][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]I don't understand why people are ganging up on zdc for saying he wants to see his wife pole dance :/
Although thats a private matter and doesn't/shouldn't be discussed with the whole world
But if he was talking about Lilly being a potential partner and asking her to pole dance...that's just SO wrong. :|[/quote]

lol?
Am i missing out on something here????
:O[/quote]

People around here are starting to think I wanna marry Lilly and make her pole dance..... stupid is'nt it, lilly could'nt do that to save her life.

Besides Lilly and me??

Actually I could sing a nice song about her,
Lilly Oh Lilly! You make me so Dizzy! Lilly Oh Lilly! You make make heart go all Fizzy, Lilly Oh Lilly, people think I am so silly, Lilly Oh Lilly! you are still my Lilly!!

Hey Lilly, what you think about this?

L - Little
I - Irresistable
L - Lady
L - Looking
Y - Yummy

Nice Huh? I am thinking of putting it as my sig!![/quote]

Omg! I can not believe it!
zdc complimented, I can't say it, a WOMAN![/quote]

when did zdc say that?! i completely missed that!
i dont know if you're being REALLY evil or nice.
Either way...it feels wrong... =/[/quote]

I wouldn't be evil! It's genuine shock horror. He's usually babbling on about his dislike of the woman race.[/quote]

NOT YOU! zdc...[/quote]

oh, lol, right.
Sorry.

:S

This has turned into a dumb thread.

[quote=s.b.f]:S

This has turned into a dumb thread.[/quote]

I agree.
Was a good q though.

[quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=s.b.f]:S

This has turned into a dumb thread.[/quote]

I agree.
Was a good q though.[/quote]

I came on here to say the same thing! (The 'it's turned into a dumb thread' thing not the 'it was a good q' - that wouldn't be very modest would it? =P )

[quote=Truth's_Razors][quote=Isha Al-Maghribi][quote=s.b.f]:S

This has turned into a dumb thread.[/quote]

I agree.
Was a good q though.[/quote]

I came on here to say the same thing! (The 'it's turned into a dumb thread' thing not the 'it was a good q' - that wouldn't be very modest would it? =P )[/quote]
oh lol, yeah!
Didn't realise you came up with it.
Still a good q though....

[quote=You][quote=zdc]Geez, you're really messed up. Dance in the mosque of the prophet?? Please provide proof? Geez, I think you're jewish. I am quite sure like with everything else you will come up with nothing but garbage.[/quote]

Careful with your fatwas there - some will get really offended at you calling ahadith garbage for it indeed is an offensive thing to say.

From here:

Imam Ahmad reports the following narration in his Musnad :

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏عَبْدُ الصَّمَدِ ‏ ‏قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏حَمَّادٌ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏ثَابِتٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَنَسٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏كَانَتْ ‏ ‏الْحَبَشَةُ ‏ ‏ يَزْفِنُونَ ‏ ‏بَيْنَ يَدَيْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَيَرْقُصُونَ وَيَقُولُونَ ‏ ‏مُحَمَّدٌ ‏ ‏عَبْدٌ صَالِحٌ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏مَا يَقُولُونَ قَالُوا يَقُولُونَ ‏ ‏مُحَمَّدٌ ‏ ‏عَبْدٌ صَالِحٌ

Anas ibn Maalik (radhiya Allahu ‘anhu) said that the Abyssinians danced in front of Rasulullah (SAWS) (sallalllahu ‘Alayhi wa Sallam) while saying “Muhammad is a Righteous Slave” (in ethiopian) upon which Rasulullah (SAWS) (sallallahu ‘Alayhi wa Sallam asked, “What are they saying?” And they responded in Arabic, “Muhummadun ‘Abdun Saalihun”.

Shaykh Shu’ayb Al Arna’ut states in his ta’liq of the Musnad Ahmad, “It is authentic, and all of the men are the two Sahihs except for Hammad ibn Salamah, and he is from the men of Imam Muslim.”

This narration is also reported from our mother ‘Aa’ishah (radhiya Allahu ‘anhaa) as follows,

قَالَ ‏ ‏حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ دَاوُدَ ‏ ‏قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ يَعْنِي ابْنَ أَبِي الزِّنَادِ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِيهِ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَائِشَةَ ‏ ‏قَالَتْ ‏وَضَعَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏ذَقْنِي عَلَى مَنْكِبَيْهِ لِأَنْظُرَ إِلَى ‏ ‏ زَفْنِ ‏ ‏الْحَبَشَةِ ‏ ‏حَتَّى كُنْتُ الَّتِي مَلِلْتُ فَانْصَرَفْتُ عَنْهُم

“‘Aa’ishah stated that Rasulullah (SAWS) put her cheek on his shoulder while looking at the Abyssinians dance…”4

The narration of Imam Muslim, however, has the words, “…on the day of ‘Eid in the Masjid…”. These narrations are proof that the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) allowed dancing in his presence. It further proves that one can dance while performing worship with the tongue and heart, as the Abyssinians were chanting “Muhammad is a Righteous Slave”, which is affirmation of the Prophethood, as well as the testimony of faith.

A hadith referenced in there I think is this, from a translation of Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Once I saw Allah's Apostle at the door of my house while some Ethiopians were playing in the mosque (displaying their skill with spears). Allah's Apostle was screening me with his Rida' so as to enable me to see their display. ('Urwa said that 'Aisha said, "I saw the Prophet and the Ethiopians were playing with their spears.")

So please be careful with your words when you call something garbage.[/quote]

I got a reply from mufti regarding the above ahadith, it has got nothing to do with dancing.

Bismihi Ta`ala

Haamidan wa Musalliyan

Respected Brother in Islam

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuh

Your email refers

The hadeeth in question does not refer to dancing. Rather, these Abyssinians were practising warfare using spears etc. To the onlooker their motions and movements seemed to be dancing and thus interpreted as dancing whereas in reality it was not. (Refer to Sharah of Imaam Nawawi on Saheeh Muslim). Understand it through the example of a mother who is rocking her child to sleep. To an onlooker who is not familiar with such a scene the motions and movements of the mother will seem to be dancing and jumping. Likewise, take the example of someone who is unacquainted with karate. He will misinterpret the motions of the individual to be some type of dancing but in reality these are motions and strategies that are required at the time war and combat. The ability of striking the swords in different postures and similarly defending oneself when being struck by a sword also require different motions. Similarly, shooting an arrow or throwing a spear requires a particular posture. These postures in Arabic were interpreted as raqs. One who is not familiar with the usage of the Arabic language will understand the word raqs as dancing whereas in reality the meaning is quite different. Similarly, there are several other words that may have variations in their meaning and explanation. E.g. the word zann, sometimes it could refer to a mere suspicion and at times it could refer to conviction. One who is not familiar will obviously misconstrue these woirds.

And Allah Ta`ala knows best

Mufti

It was dancing - a wardance. People can try to hide from that because it does not fit their culture, but that does not xhange the hadith.

The example of the rocking mother does not hold up as she would not be doing as a form of celebration in putting on a show for the onlookers. Nor would it be synchronised.

So no, that explanation is not valid.

What you can say is that it was not illicit in any way and such displays are not to be done in public, but dancing as a whole is allowed.

[quote=You]It was dancing - a wardance. People can try to hide from that because it does not fit their culture, but that does not xhange the hadith.[/quote]

Ok, mufti, please yourself. For you is your religion and for me is mine. May allah guide you. Ameen.
You have lost all credibility in my eyes.

I thouht I didn't have any in the first place?

Crying wolf too often makes such claims to be less weighty.

I do think you taking the info I resented to a scholar for verification was a good thing though - shows a mind willing to learn.

[quote=You]I thouht I didn't have any in the first place?

Crying wolf too often makes such claims to be less weighty.

I do think you taking the info I resented to a scholar for verification was a good thing though - shows a mind willing to learn.[/quote]

You just lost what ever little teeny weeny amount you had, right now, you are pretty much level to the gravel.

I have a habit of letting the scholars interpret hadith and give tafseer of quran. I don't regard myself as learned to make such conclusions.