Assalamu alaikum,
Anyone seen this documentary on 4od, i came across it today:
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=img45feWCdQ]
Apparently concerns mostly Pakistanis, but also effects Bangladeshis and some of middle eastern dissent.
To tell the truth i thght bangladeshis had removed themselves from marrying cousins, and if they did it was not first cousins. Least thats how it is in my family and those around me none of us married cousins and ppl i know who have have married distant cousins, sadly against their wishes.
Islam permits cousin marriages, but in interests of health i have always been against first cousin marriages, its not like there are a shortage of suitable partners to go around. it seems more of a cultural practice. Is that right? Or do some ppl think its a religious requirement??
Just about to watch it now.
The very first statement in the documentary however is incorrect... its not "he was born with it because his mother and father are first cousins" but that is not a certainty - the condition was a hell of a lot more likely due to that, but it can still occur if they were not as closely related.
Another thing to consider is I was reading the other day that in some european country, there was a study done on deformities in asian/pakistani kids, and even in non-first-cousin-marriage cases, the likelihood of disability or deformity was 7 times more than average (rising to 11 times the average in cases of first cousin marriage).
Watching that is painful though.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
All those morons 15 minutes in talking about the benefits of cousin marriage "it increases the love" etc between siblings etc if their kids get married... wait til one fails and the shit hits the fan.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Found the link and it is about Norway. Then again it is focussed on a specific type of disorder, a brain disorder.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i dont understand why nearly everyone even new generation of muslims are in denial. I cna understand ppl of my mothers generation being in denial, many of them are illiterate in their own mother tongue, forget genetic reasoning. But younger muslims i can't understand them. Especially that first imam, he was adamant there was no link, and even though he said he'd look at the evidence, he didn't contact the journalist with a reply.
Also the young mother with the single son, with liver problem deteriorating, he could die any day, as it is not known how long his liver will hold up? She even said since chance of genetic disorder is 1 in 4, theres 1 in 3 with no problem, like it was no big deal there was a huge chance there would be no issue.
The first family were the saddest, i was in tears over that. I felt so sorry for the older boy. Can any of us imagine having sight and losing it? He sits there crying coz he wants to drive, he will never be able to. Yet the parents are in denial. i have feeling the mother is open to fact it is a genetic issue, but its the men of the family who control their thghts. i mean her husband was very matter of fact that his wifes sister married his brother and they had 5 kids without any problems. But he doesn't seem to accept that he himself and his wife were both carriers of a genetic disorder, whereas his brother and his wifes sister were not?
I really didnt know there were such devastating disorders related with first cousin marriages. i thght the main issue were blood problems like thalasemia, nothing as major as liver problems, blindness and shorter life expectancy.
The only person who made an intelligent honest reply was the very last imam, and it was good to see him raising the issue with the congregation in the masjid, because elders in particular are more likely to listen and believe him, rather than medical professionals or even their own kids.
Do you think the government or councils are making it a religious issue? Or is the asian community just being hypersensitive and/or using the religous issue as a scapegoat to not admit there are problems? I think it's the latter...
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
That was painful to watch.
No idea. It could just be people getting their guards up. At the same time I have not really seen it discussed (mostly because I do not engage with people in the real world), so don't really know. But there was tht one imam guy who was willing to talk about it, so it may not be as bleak as it is portrayed.
One thing that I did notice was that... some people saying that cousin marriages were a century old tradition... others saying that there was a rise in it over the past few decades... them two do not add up. I would think that cousin marriages were not as common as some will suggest they were when making their point... jsut like people 50 years ago were not all saints praying in the mosque 24/7 either.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
"More than half of British Pakistanis marry their their first cousins" - Wow, did not know that.
I've got a Pakistani mate who is going back home in October to marry his cousin. Why do alot of Pakistanis marry their cousins... is it coz they find their cousins more attractive.. or pressure from parents.. or some other reason I'm unaware about.
Any people here intending to marry their cousins?
Let me start by saying that I'm not.
well im married to my first cousin
been almost 7 years
2 healthy and great kids
i think all my relatives that i know apart from a brother have all married first cousins...i dont know of hardly any deformed kids
the issue is yes marrying cousins is allowed islamically but my view is once the gene becomes very thin eg grandparents, parents, you have married cousins and if my kids married their cousins thats when the risk IS HIGHER and a HIGHER CHANCE their kinds will be disabled- now do i want to risk that? nO!
Most cousin marriages are like this:
your parents tell you who u will marry and they expect a yes... even if you say yes gradually.
today with 2nd generation parents there is no real reason to marry cousins, our parents did it for comfort, help out their brothers n sisters etc if u WANT to marry a cousin , fine... but parents should let you choose as long as he/she is good/compatible etc...
if there is a higher risk then its best to avoid it, isnt it?
Having watched that show, I found myself getting sadder and sadder and then angrier at the morons who ignored the evidence that was straight in their face!
No it is not against Islam to marry cousins, it is also not against Christianity or whatever else I can think of. But modern science has shown that a limited gene pool causes unhealthy genes to pass along more frequently and so marrying relatives and then having children is raising the stakes of having babies born with defects.
And for anyone who encourages the practice I say shame on you!
You do realise that the show was not a scientific experiment?
Its aim was to highlight an issue and it did just that.
The first Imam guy I feel a little sorry for - his view that "once I look at the evidence, I will decide" was jumped on by the presenter. It did not matter if there was reams of evidence infront of him, as long as he had not had a look at it and had probably not consulted others on the evidence, his position was the logical one of seeing the evidence first before jumping into a condemning role.
But the presenter needed to show how people are ignoring the evidence in front of their face and he was her mark. Poor show there.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The Imam is an idiot! A man who does not know a thing about science, yet takes the position that the scientists are not quite truthful. And worse of all this man has "authority" to tell people how to live their lives.
This show did not need to be a scientific experiment. Every genetic scientist will tell you that limiting the gene pool is a bad idea, so will any doctor. The data has already been accumulated from years of research and evidence.
Take a look at this article for starters
That Imam reminded me of the idiotic Imams in northern Nigeria who issued fatwas against the polio vaccine, saying it was a Zionist plot to sterilize the Muslims. Thanks to that fatwa, hundreds of Muslim children are now paralyzed from polio.
Actually, no, that was not his position. He did not attack the science at all. He simply stated that he did not know.
he may very well be an idiot, but here the presenter was simply out trying to prove a point instead of being useful.
he may also not have had the cojones to discuss it with others and tell them about it, but that is separate from denying the science, which he did not do.
The data may have been accumulated for years as evidence, but until someone sees and reads it, they cannot give a real answer as to what it says.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sounds like a good watch. Will have to give it a try when i have a chance.
You're right, the Imam did not state his position (he dodged that question). That was someone else in that documentary. But the Imam still ignored what the reporter was telling him and simply kept saying "I don't know" and then stating the obvious "Islamically, there is nothing wrong with cousins marrying" :!:
LOL. I think it's more to do with making the parents happy!
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Assalam alaikum,
I watched this and like others I was distressed by watching the families with the disabled children.
I am not shocked at all by the high number of cousins marriages in the Pakistani community. The main reason this has happened in the past is that our parents were pressured by their siblings in Pakistan to bring over their kids, so it was an easy route to a British passport. And if they did not want to marry then there was emotional blackmail to force them to marry.
This approach has allowed many pakistani boys and girls to come over to the UK, but in many cases it has caused many problems between the couples and then to the wider family.
My hope is that the 2nd generation of Pakistanis take a more sensible approach and allow their kids to have at least some say in where there want to get married, instead of forcing them to marry their cousins.
The reason no-one wants to discuss this subject in the community is that the elders are still set in their ways, and want to bring more boys and girls over from Pakistan, and therefore don't agree with allowing kids to choose their spouse. Hence pleading ignorance and all denial of any medical proof.
I mean if an ugly guy finds a beautiful girl attractive, its most likely that they wont marry. However if the beautiful girl happens to be their cousin then it seems that its easier to get married to them. Use the excuse of making the parents happy to marry the beautiful girl.
Same applies vice versa; ugly girl with the handsome guy.
you guys are scaring me! i dont think im going to watch it! =/
In my family hardly anyone marries first cousin. coz we hang around so much when we're young...i just dont see myself guetting married to first cousin.. (well there is THIS cousin...but lets not GO there...)
out of all my first married cousin. Only one got married to a Mauritian dude. I have a turkish, french, algerian, cousin in-laws. My mum is expecting different ethnicities for her sons and daughter in law.
But i think this is just my family...
Widening the gene pool much? I think yes...
COMMON COUSINS GET MARRIED ALREADY!! I wanna taste new food!!!
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Oh, so you have thought about marrying your 1st cousin.
How old is he?... How does he look?... I wanna know all about him :twisted:
No you dont!
(and i was thinking about writing that bit in the smallest font available...)
Crossed out of the list as we are related on both side (NOT 1st cousin marriage, more like inter-generation marriage, which is more headachy)
and he's bad bad bad. Shave his beard, Cut his hair different length, Listen to music out loud in the car. <--see convinced myself pretty well didnt i?
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
dark knight bangladeshi elders used to do it for the same reasons to get their kids over from bangladesh, but im pretty sure any cousin goes for them, not necessarily 1st cousins. although they may have preferred closer cousins. But it's a dying trend now, although there are a few cases ive heard of generally they prefer to marry kids outside family to avoid the headache. I mean as long as the bride or groom is a good looker and wealthy i don't think they care, wealth means a great deal to them.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Looks = fair skin
It could be like a bollywood film.
You convince yourself that his going to change so you reject other proposals and wait for him. You lock yourself in your bedroom and cry and hope that he changes one day.
When the day comes that he actually changes, you have a song and a dance in the rain and get married.
Happy Ending.
You watch too much TV...
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
LOL MuslimBro!
And yes lilly we want to know more about this cousin of yours!
Oh and i do NOT intend to marry a first cousin...or a cousin. Good thing i don't have any potentials either
Well none that i know of, and if i don't know them them then they're might aswell be called strangers so its ok.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
NO! FEEF!! you need to support me!!!
I should edit the post that started this whole thing so you'll all look foolish!
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Cmoon Lills u can tell ME about this guy.
or you'll look like you're trying to hide something. and why would u want to hide anything? hmm *dodgy*
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
So no-one here intends to marry their cousin... except Lilly ofcourse
When marrying cousins, do people normally go back home or marry a cousin from the UK?
I can understand the advantages of marrying a cousin from the UK. But marrying a cousin from back home and bringing them here - they don't know British culture, can't speak English properly, not to forget the additional headache with the paperwork. Just the lack of English would put me off.
So a perfect helpless slave you can keep under your thumb...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
Here's a case which happened last year.
last year. That case was made into a forum topic, i think.
I think it would be harder for the couple if one was from uk and the other from overseas. Then again pakistani's and are becoming more and more "modern" these days.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
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