If you have a situation where someone has disproportionate power over another (without oversight -be it comunal/family or legal), it is inevitable that someone will try to abuse it. Maybe even human nature?
I agree with this. But is it not the case that in any form of Islam the genders have disproportional power?
It would follow from what was quoted that any religion or ideology which does pronounce disproportionate power would inevitably lead to abuse.
My view is that this would not be a good thing and furthermore points to an error in the religion/ideology.
Islam propogates that both Women and Men alike, are equal. Though scientifically and biologically, Men have a physical superiority which they unfortunately use to their own advantage, to the detriment of the opposite sex. This is a problem within Islamic societies, though domestic abuse is rife in the Western world, more namely Britain.
In short, sexism - or the abuse of women by those more powerful (more often Men, though this thread relates to the domestic abuse - in-laws)- is not limited to one select religion or culture.
We had to do an essay on a question like this
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Oh come on now, I'm not new to Islam, don't try to pull a fast one on me. Unless you mean a form of equality completely different to the Western understanding of the word. (Yes, I've seen the sura about Mohammed saying you should hold in high esteem your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your mother.) The greatest equality Muslimahs have is in the West, not in any Sharia-based Muslim country.
In any case, let's put equality to one side; my question is about disproportional gender power in Islam. Is it incorrect that men and women have different power in Islam?
Perfect time to cut and paste it if you want.
As for the issue of equality, it is equality *in the sight of God* which means in actions pertaining to religion.
In life though Islam proposes a model of equivalence/fairness as opposed to equality.
The thing is the Islamic way is to work in all times - the good and the bad.
While in the good times some of the rules may sometimes to some people seem extra, they are necessary when things go wrong.
Islam offers extra protection for the womenfolk and in the current climate in the UK that may not seem like it is needed, go to other parts of the world and it is (I will accept that it is also required in most of the Muslim world, and the protections there are also not always accurately resembling the requirements to put things lightly.)
Without specifics to discuss, this will come across as extremely wishy washy, so are there any specific issues?
(I can think of finance, travel and marriage as being three big topics people would want to discuss but I do not want to make this into a me topic. I want to hear what others say and think too.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I agree with that, In the Uk it may not seem neccessary but elsewhere it is more than neccessary.
Marriage bieng based on fairness. A woman's views should be given before anything takes place. But in many cultures that may not be and isn't the case eventhough islam says differently.
What has islam got to say about finance and travel in relations to equality in the sight of god? Maybe something i'm going to research into.
Marriage based on fairness? I don't get that comment.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
i don't think its meant to say fairness. my brother wrote it.
(next time get him to sign off "Exceptions Bro" or something just to make things easier if he does not want his own account.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
will do
islam is not about equality. as you said we are equal in the sight of God in terms of religious acts. But in biological, physical sense we are not equal. We are unique individuals with different and even complementing traits. I think it is a complete lie created in west that men and women are equal. how many years has it been since the suffrage movement. Why is it that women are still not paid the same wage for doing the same job as a man? Why is that women are constantly degraded by being portrayed as nothing but sexual beings. In ads to sell just about anything from a bar of chocolate to a sports car. In magazines, on billboards, sexual harassment at work is huge problem in west. I could go on and on. I don't think equality exists.
I do agree muslim women currently have more freedoms in west. But that is not because Islam is lacking that is because those claiming to be ruling by Islam are not ruling justly. They are allowing cultural values to be mixed with Islamic ones.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Women and travel - I did not want to have this whole conversation in this topic, so I have been quiet on this while looking for the topic.
On the issue of money, women inherit half that of men, and there are two women required in cases of financial testimony in the place of one man.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
But is that not an example of fairness?
Women in jobs where they are asked to specify what they want to be paid generally ask for less than their male counterparts, so that is not due to inequality but due to asking for less.
Besides, men cannot bear children so any financial liability due to such circumstances will not exist and that does make a difference (but for most jobs where the salary is specified, men and women will earn equal. It is mostly the ones where there is not fixed salary where such things can happen.)
As for modeling, who wants a fat hairy guy selling chocolate to the masses? I think the Cadbury's Milk Tray man (of olde) has been one of the few men selling chocolate. Otherwise it is women, but I do not think it is to titillate - the target audience is also women and they want to show chocolate as being something luxurious.
(I hope you do not think/feel I am always attacking you. It is just that you are one of the few who dare to post things of substance, so it gives me a chance to be ... contrary. I do value your posts and insights even when I disagree - after all I probably disagree with most of humanity on most things.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
" ‘Equal but different.’
Discuss how adequately this sums up the relationship between males and females in Islam."
Or
"Explain why there are different understandings of the role of women in Islam (30 marks)"
Which is more appropriate?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Either?
(I assume you will post it as a blog post now?)
Or that can be the first line in the post with a different title altogether, such as "Islam and Equality" or unequal equals or the usual suspects or whatever. (the last suggestion was just random and it is unlinked)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
@ Tread Softly, difficult question. Theology teaches that men and women are equal in the sighgt of God. The Prophet Muhammad SAW taught that men and women ar equal in worth and rights. However He SAW also taught and recognised that men and women are different and so they have some identical rights AND some different rights.
The principle is always equality. No right which outwardly accords more benefit to a man than a woman is intended to lessen the woman before the man and no right which outwardly accords more benfit to the woman is intended to lessen the man. Where rights differ it is in respect to the different functions within society and innate differences. If those rights are felt to abuse an individual then one should question the obediance of the society to the Islamic social contract. Or in other words, is it possible that certain groups select which parts of Islam to follow so as to better themselves?
This reply is getting to long for me to maintain any coherance, so to summarise: Woman is equal to man, but she is not identical to man. To treat her differently is as abhorent as to treat her the same.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
i dont agree with anything you said You about my post. women used for example in choc ads as u suggested not there to excite men, but women alike. sorry but women in like a night negligee or sitting in a bath having a bar of flake crumbling down her mouth, is not to excite a woman unless it is the lesbian kind. it is more so for the male audience. women may not see the sexual side so much they may focus on the comforting nature of having choc unwinding in bubble bath. guys however will see something else, since their minds are limited, sorry wired differently.
Now that Yorkie campaign not for ladies, not for your handbag. that is targetted at women evne though sounds anti. i love yorkie always have, and defiantely buy it even when husband chuckles over it.
As for pay perhaps in some jobs both genders are asked what pay they want. But generally speaking ppl are not asked. they are told this is the annual salary, may be open to discussion after a year any questions? So i dont agree that women decide their own wage, and thus its their fault if they get less than men.
p.s no im not offended by you analysing my posts. least i know someone is listening even if not agreeing thts cool.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]