I am writing from America. I am not muslim but I am looking for advice and maybe some answers. I am a student working on my masters degree. I have been dating a Saudi guy for the last year and I am very much in love with him.
When we first started dating I heard that alot of people were saying its strange that he would date me, that he is religious. He follows Islam in every way other than the fact he is with me.
He recently came to me and said that he cannot deal with himself in this anymore. That he goes home and sometimes cries after being with me because it is Haram, but he does not want to leave me.
He has asked me to go with him to the Mosqe and marry. I am not ready for marriage and it is not in my culture to run out and get married quickly. So its not a leagal US marriage just in the mosqe so it is no longer haram for him to be with me. I love him I am willing to do this for him but I am a little scared.
First of all I want to know what your opinions are about the situation in general. Further I want to know what to expect. What happens in these ceremonies? What does being married in Islam mean for me?
If you want to know what happens in the ceremonies, that is easy - all that is required is in front of witnesses both of you accept marriage.
That is the only requirement. He may want more or less, but everything else is extra. (it does not have to be in a mosque)
There may be a meal too and he may have two halls if he wants (or rather his parents more likely) the women and the men to not mingle. but this is not necessary - the only necessity is the accepting of the marriage in front of witnesses.
Further, if you do marry him, MAKE SURE IT IS REGISTERED as a legitimate marriage and not just a religious ceremony that is not a valid civil marriage too. (so this will require a visit to the registry office or where ever such things are recorded in the US.)
Are you sure you know what marriage entails?
Any future kids he will want to be brought up as Muslims. You he may also want to convert to Islam (and this should ever be done for a dude, but rather if you actually believe). How will he want you to behave after marriage? like you are now or like some "good arabian wife" ?
If you are not willing to go the whole hog, dump him. it is the only way to not be cruel to him or to you.
That is where it is. Him dating you was wrong and he also was probably less than truthful with you over his intentions - you were his play thing. Now you may mean more to him, but does that mean he will want you to remain as you are , or would he want you to adapt to his expectations of what a wife is?
Then there is his family. I am not sure what that will be like but chances are you are not just marrying him, but his whole family (metaphorically) - they will then become involved in your life and have expectations of you.
If you can live with that, great. If not, dump him.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Hi,
I don't think that you should marry him just because you love him - i mean it always helps but in this case, you need to look past a couple of months, perhaps fast forward to a couple of years down the line.
Being married to a Muslim will mean changes for you, (i don't think you specified what religion you are) sometimes it'll be things like the way you dress other times it'll be what you eat/drink or even say and overtime these will most probably start to unnerve you and will lead to arguments and considerations of divorce (i have seen it happen, one too many times unfortunately).
Additionally, it has only been a year that you have been with him, and although you think you might know each other completely, this is never the case. sooner or later you will find yourself hating (or at least disliking) certain things about him that you might have once loved(and vice versa unfortunately) or even things like leaving his socks lying around or a wet towel on the bed. This is the reality of a marriage, and not just a muslim marriage either. Make sure you're looking at the reality aspect of marrying him (and marriage in general) not just the idealised 'love'/hollywood aspect.
However, what i have read of the guy (of course i don't know the whole picture), he seems like a good person who wants to do whats right. I think it's a good sign that he cries about this, because he fears/loves God. Perhaps ask him to do the Istikhara prayer (A prayer that will guide him i.e. if marrying you is the best thing).
That is not to say however that the road (what ever it is) will be easy, it really won't but InshaAllah (If God wills) you will be rewarded for your struggle. Additionally, thank God for the turn out because only He truly knows what is best for us, even if it isn't the answer we hoped for.
I really hope this helped
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
@Truth's_Razors: its not "only a year" - a year be a long long time.
If she can live with what it entails, then great.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
A year is never enough because even after this period of time, you'll find something about them that you never knew before. On the other hand you actually might know them completely but it is important to remember that people change with new experiences, and marriage is most definitely one of these.
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
yes, but people in marriage will grow together.
one day, one month, one year, one lifetime - there will always be new things and a part of it is to trust the other person. there is no such thing as too short a time (while there is too long a time as things can make people grow apart).
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
In some cases, yes. But in general, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
probably.
(how dare you show wisdom!)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Oh I'm sorry! knocked you off the top slot have I?
(AmeriBlue - my sincere apologies for deviating away from your original post!) =S
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
Yes.
I think it all is linked - including whether it is too short a time or too long a time.
She needs to talk to him too - an honest conversation over what they both expect and about the realities of the world instead of some daydream conversations that are not about this world that we live in.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I feel that what I am about to write will come across as pessimistic, but at the end of the day, it seems that however honest one tries to be, the other person is never 100% honest and even if they seem like they are, you can never be sure of it. This however, is not to say that all people are liars but instead, sometimes people won't tell you the truth because it hurts (hence 'Truth's Razors').
Although i agree with what you (You) said (if I understood correctly)that the conversations shouldn't only be about this world, but also about the next but these conversations will only happen if both parties are interested in this, if not it's rather pointless.
Sometimes one has to just be ready for the worst (or something bad) so that when it happens, you're not hurt as much or even better, try to see the good in it, I'm sure theres blessings in it somewhere because it's all one big test from God (Allah).
As Native Deen says:
It's tough, trust me I know that it's rough
But after pain comes ease and you'll be blessed from above
I hope when the time for my test comes along I will cope and I'll find I'll be blessed when I'm strong
So my people, when life is a mess
You gotta focus and realize, this could be your test.
----
(I think I strayed away (again) from what you (You) originally said) =S
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
That is too deep for me.
I was saying that the conversations need to be practical instead of "lovey dovey".
and no, you cannot know everything. There is a matter of trust involved and that would happen in any situation whether the people had spent a long time together beforehand or not.
As for whether marriage here is a good idea or total separation is... I cannot say and that would probably require for the Original poster to reply to the specifics in the comments.
(I had assumed that she wasn't muslim, but that may be an incorrect assumption - it was simply not mentioned.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You're right:
- Trust is important, but don't be overly naive either (that is to everyone not just females)
- She isn't Muslim, I think she mentioned she wasn't..
and finally
- Yes she needs to reply, AmeriBlue: Please reply
- (disagree with me if you want!)
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
I've got no answers for you, only questions that you need to be asking.
What does he intend to do after studying?
Where would he want to live after marriage?
What changes would he expect you to make after marriage?
What changes would he expect you to make after marriage, that he's not telling you?
As to your question about what Islamic married life is about, ideally, its when both partners prefer to fulfil the rights of their spouses rather than demand their own, and where deference and mutual dignity are cherished qualities. In reality, you would do well to suss out his culture and all the strings attached. I don't mean to make out that he's bad, but these are the critical issues.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Sorry it took me so long to reply, Ive been in class all afternoon.
yes I have been with him just a few weeks shy of a year.
No I am not Muslim. Honestly Im not really religious. I was raised Christian, but I have a hard time believing in a bible that has been re-written countless times by Roman and Dark Aged rulers who wanted to use it to scare and rule people. I do not appreciate the hypocrisy of the church...so I no longer believe in it. I do believe in God, but not the church. For this reason the religious differences are not an issue for me. I respect his religion and the fact that he has so much faith in it.
As far as what this marriage would mean, but my choice it would be rather informal. As I said I am not ready for a social civil marriage. I am only 24. We have only been together for a year. I know many people in the Islamic tradition will marry quickly but this is not how I was raised or what I am comfortable with. YET I am willing to get married with him in the Mosque in his religion and be his wife in that sense to make him comfortable with being with me. I know that sounds silly to be willing to be married in the eyes of God (Allah)...and yes I do believe I would be married in the eyes of God...I do believe in God (just not the church) and Allah and God are one in the same under different names. So doing this would be a marriage in that way. I am just not ready to socially marry him.
I think I probably just confused you all more.
would he accept keeping the religion bit informal?
If what you say of him being religious to some extent is true, then I cannot see how he will accept that.
You seriously do need to have a real conversation with him and decide what things mean.
If it will be informal, I think clean break is better for you. Short term emotional turmoil that will eventually heal.
Is he willing to accept religion to be informal? if that was the case, he would not be pushing for a religious marriage IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Hi, regarding your question above, the following link should be useful: Rights & Responsibilities Of Husband and Wife (it is a short, concise, easy read)
However, the saudi man may not follow this article, and have his own ideas about marriage (also marriage can differ from culture to culture so find out what is in his culture).
Its perhaps best to ask him direct what do you expect of me? and (tell him) what you expect of him? tell him what roles you will/can fulfil and what responsibilities you will/can take on as a wife, and the same for him as a husband: in a marriage relationship as a husband and wife.
communicate with him about the marriage proposal and be honest and truthful to each other about your intentions.
hope that helps and makes sense.
God willing things will work out for the best for both of you.
you could even say to him i will consider marriage to you after my masters is complete.
This will give you time to think rather than make quick and perhaps the rong decision.
i think marriage is a big and important decision one makes in his/her life so one should take time to accept or reject the proposal.
x
Since you asked for an advice, here it is - brutal and honest:
Leave him. He is bad apple.
Do not marry a Wahhabi.
They are bad news. Hypocritical muslims.
You boyfriend will desert you, dump you, and betray you.
Wahhabis have already betrayed their God and His Prophet Mohamed.
I can go on but I think this should be sufficient for an intelligent lady.
Omrow
Hello...who ever you are miss America...please don't be so naive about Arabs, in this world now what good have they done in public eyes? Just like the wild boar even the Holy Quran was in Arabic. They don't care now what was important was to enjoy life for everybody knowing lifespan was short. I don't think of a girl from US what so called the most Democratic(as you claimed) would fall into this trap. If not of the Kaabah in Mecca were in the Saudi Arabia who would like to be there? Those Arabs could easily be loitering around in Thailand bars, discos and brothels just to keep busy with their lust. True. Some places as beach in Pattaya Thailand will put sign there that Says "Arabs Are Not Wellcome Here". Really. That's a big blow for us in Malaysia coz we were the Thais neighbour. What to do...it was all means Sign of the Last Day. Sorry if I hurt your feeling.
Hey Little girl don't walk so fast...once you're married that was your last...before you're confused make sure you leave him fast.
Sorry...I do love reggae
If you aren't ready then perhaps you should wait a while, take some time apart. I appreciate the fact that you said you are willing to get married (for his sake), but many people I know, who were in very similar situations, seem to find themselves feeling as though they have ‘sacrificed’ more than the other person and so sometimes regret their decision. I don’t agree with what the guy said about Arabs being lalala because he generalized the Arab population and the guy that you’re with may not be like that (although Allah knows best) as well as the fact that there is not perfect race/nationality since there are corrupt people everywhere.
What you need to figure out is: are you acting for your present or for your future. If it’s for your future, sit and contemplate, taking all factors into account. Do this for as long as you need (he should understand if this is a serious issue for him) because at the end of the day it’s going to impact the rest of your life.
Jihad of the Nafs (The Struggle of the Soul)
They can always backout if that turns into the situation - divorce is an option.
You have to be in it to win it.
She may not be Muslim, but for an Islamic society to function, Marriage has to be given a lot of importance - you try after you buy.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I agree with Truth's_Razors, it seems Ameriblue is doing this more for her boyfriend than for herself and doesn't seem completely comfortable with the idea of marriage but thinks if it helps to keep their relationship then great. However that's not not a good cuz u have to feel ready for marriage as its a very big step and if she knows she isnt ready but goes ahead with it its probably only gna lead to heartache. yes divorce is an option but prevention is better than cure
... did i even make sense? :S
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Well the two *real* options are to dump him or to go the whole hog (including teh civil marriage, not just the half hearted one). She needs to decide where she stands and may reject both options.
When you date for longer than many marriages last, how is that prevention?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
huh?
:S
il just say its not.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
@ Omrow & Mohammed-
Yes many Americans are scared of/dont understand Arabs/Muslims. But notice that I am dating and car deeply for one. I do not believe in stereotyping or the kind of hatred you are speaking. Everybody is differnt. Yes culture plays alot into the creation of a personality, but there are many other factors that affect how a person develops and behaves. So sorry but I will not be taking your advice into account.
@ Everyone else
Yes divorce is always an option, but I hope to never have to get divorced. I do not want to enter into a marriage thinking of divorce as a possible outcome or option.
Thank you all for your input you have given me a lot to think about.
True. its like bolting before you even try.
But as mentioned, the main thing is you will need to talk to him and find out what this will mean for you. Actual conversation where you actually talk about real nitty gritty stuff of what he sees this as achieving and what it means going forward too.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Heres a brainwave.
Why dont you just talk to him? Sit down and ask him realistically speaking exactly what he would expect from you 'if' you agreed to get married? What it would involve you doing.
anything else is just pointless natter.
Back in BLACK
First of all in islam a muslim is allowed to marry the people of the books meaning christians and jews, but we muslims we still prefare to convert the women first then get married as it feels awkward to marry a nonmuslim.
Secondly the brother i can see why his guilty, you said his practising in islam commiting adultery means death penalty, since islam isnt what it used to be his lucky he isnt being punnished yet, and im 100% sure he knows that, and perhaps because of this his regreting even more.
you said your 24 hey my friend got married at 16 if you think your ready go for it, and well i guess its ipto you now what you want to do, islamically you have 2 choices:
1) get married to him as a christian (even though no muslim man would wanna do that)
2) convert to islam and marry him
adultery? he's unmarried, the punishment is lashings i think (zina).
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