ameriblue, i'm not muslim, but i would offer this advice: think of your potential children first and only. there are other factors but the "children" factor outweights all the others put together.

AmeriBlue wrote:

Thank you all for your input you have given me a lot to think about.

To Everyone: I think this means we've given enough input

To AmeriBlue: I wish you the best!

what if he wants wife number 2/3/4 later on?

Noor wrote:

what if he wants wife number 2/3/4 later on?

As has been mentioned - they need to talk frankly and honestly with each other. (and playing for time or not playing for time will neither provide any answers.)

Tread Softly wrote:

adultery? he's unmarried, the punishment is lashings i think (zina).

zina doesnt just mean man cheating on his wife, their are different types of zina such as zina of the eye which means man looking at women, physical zina which is the one the brother here has been commiting, zina of the ear which is commting by listening to romantic words and many others.

To ameriblue how about you both stay away from eachother until you actually make a decision on what you want to do

hudhafah wrote:

Tread Softly wrote:

adultery? he's unmarried, the punishment is lashings i think (zina).

zina doesnt just mean man cheating on his wife, their are different types of zina such as zina of the eye which means man looking at women, physical zina which is the one the brother here has been commiting, zina of the ear which is commting by listening to romantic words and many others.

Stop trying to hustle your way out of where that person caught you out.

Even if there are different versions... none of those you listed there have the death penalty as punishment. You made a mistake. it happens. accept it and move on.

(More, some scholars have argued that the death penalty was actually used in cases of rape and not consensual adultery, but that is a different issue.)

i dont agree with ppl converting to islam just to get married to the guy or girl they were dating. Without having an ounce of belief in the religion, your intentions are disingenuous, just uttering the words will not render you a "muslim".

If ameri knows anything about islam and truly wants to revert great. But if she is being urged to convert just to get married, and has no intentions of following any of the practices then she should not go ahead.

As for marrying this guy as a non muslim, i don't think you should. Why because he is feeling guilty? Faith will definately come into play after marriage if you have children. in dealings with his family in many areas, think about all of this are you ready for the demands?

You wrote:

hudhafah wrote:

Tread Softly wrote:

adultery? he's unmarried, the punishment is lashings i think (zina).

zina doesnt just mean man cheating on his wife, their are different types of zina such as zina of the eye which means man looking at women, physical zina which is the one the brother here has been commiting, zina of the ear which is commting by listening to romantic words and many others.

Stop trying to hustle your way out of where that person caught you out.

Even if there are different versions... none of those you listed there have the death penalty as punishment. You made a mistake. it happens. accept it and move on.

(More, some scholars have argued that the death penalty was actually used in cases of rape and not consensual adultery, but that is a different issue.)

first of all anyone with common snese couldve known which one i was reffering to when i said zina here, its like some saying this person commited zina by listening to the words......, as you can see in that sentence anyone who;d read this can tell the zina im reffering to is the zina of the ears, just like that if you look at my sentence above you can tell my one is reffering to physical zina, secondly theirs a hadith where muhammad SAW punnishes 2 couple who commited zina with eachother just incase i need to spell it out for you physical zina, they were not married to anyone else jsut 2 ordinary people commited zina and muhammad SAWpunnished them by giving them death penalty, so as you can see in this hadith the punnishment is defentely death penalty, true lashes is one of the punnishment but depends on the situation, so as usuallll i know what im saying in both the sense of your reply, in terms of me making a mistake well in issues like this i double check before replying knowing the issue here is a serious one, maybe you should start doing this aswell.

I have shown you again both evidence and common sense as usual

you also mentioned the death penalty, so it was not a slip of the tongue. (and then you decided to complicate things by mentioning other things etc...)

There is no shame in admitting that you can be wrong. If I am wrong - which has happened, I (sometimes?) accept the errors of my ways as I think that is the best way for me to behave.

secondly theirs a hadith where muhammad SAW punnishes 2 couple who commited zina with eachother just incase i need to spell it out for you physical zina, they were not married to anyone else jsut 2 ordinary people commited zina and muhammad SAW punished them by giving them death penalty, so as you can see in this hadith the punnishment is defentely death penalty

Link? Why did the Imams not follow this? If the Imams did not accept this, how is it "definitely"? and then why did you decide to backtrack with the whole "other forms of zina" speech you gave that was totally unrelated to the issue at hand?

I have shown you again both evidence and common sense as usual

Actually, you have done neither.

You wrote:

you also mentioned the death penalty, so it was not a slip of the tongue. (and then you decided to complicate things by mentioning other things etc...)

There is no shame in admitting that you can be wrong. If I am wrong - which has happened, I (sometimes?) accept the errors of my ways as I think that is the best way for me to behave.

secondly theirs a hadith where muhammad SAW punnishes 2 couple who commited zina with eachother just incase i need to spell it out for you physical zina, they were not married to anyone else jsut 2 ordinary people commited zina and muhammad SAW punished them by giving them death penalty, so as you can see in this hadith the punnishment is defentely death penalty

Link? Why did the Imams not follow this? If the Imams did not accept this, how is it "definitely"? and then why did you decide to backtrack with the whole "other forms of zina" speech you gave that was totally unrelated to the issue at hand?

I have shown you again both evidence and common sense as usual

Actually, you have done neither.

theirs no shame in being wrong but their is a problem when people accuse you of being wrong at something your not,

and what imams are you talking about? as for other forms of zina its to let you know which one i was reffering to when i was peaking their since no one seemed to understand i was reffering to physical zina either due to my sentence or because they didnt know the different types of zina.

Lastly when i find that hadith i'll post it as soon as possible inshallah.

Glad I stayed out of this. Good luck AmeriBlue whatever happens now.

Well done on making a solid decision, i hope it's the best one

Joie de Vivre wrote:

Glad I stayed out of this. Good luck AmeriBlue whatever happens now.

Now that you are in it, it would e interesting to hear what your opinions were.

You wrote:

Joie de Vivre wrote:

Glad I stayed out of this. Good luck AmeriBlue whatever happens now.

Now that you are in it, it would e interesting to hear what your opinions were.

I know that but nothing here seemed to call for an opinion from me so I don't have one and there was plenty of advice. If there were some complicating factor I might have been interested but "should American I marry a Muslim Saudi guy" isn't giving me that kind of info. :?

Just best wishes for the future.

the evidence "you" wanted

second aprt of the hadith: In Sahih Muslim 4205

Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you; go back and beg forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance. She said: I find that you intend to send me back as you sent back Ma'iz. b. Malik. He (the Holy, Prophet) said: What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah's Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death.

Is there commentary on it - was she married etc and what the scholars aid she was punished?

(also, can I have a full reference as the hadith is something that takes place over a period of years...)

You wrote:

Is there commentary on it - was she married etc and what the scholars aid she was punished?

(also, can I have a full reference as the hadith is something that takes place over a period of years...)

the main point of the hadith was repentence so even if you do here this hadith in lectures it would be used for the repentence bit.

besides do some research yourself im not here to spoonfeed you

Omrow wrote:

Since you asked for an advice, here it is - brutal and honest:

Leave him. He is bad apple.

Do not marry a Wahhabi.

They are bad news. Hypocritical muslims.

You boyfriend will desert you, dump you, and betray you.

Wahhabis have already betrayed their God and His Prophet Mohamed.

I can go on but I think this should be sufficient for an intelligent lady.

Omrow

LOL! i can only hope you are joking..

Omrow wrote:

AmeriBlue wrote:

I am writing from America. I am not muslim but I am looking for advice and maybe some answers. I am a student working on my masters degree. I have been dating a Saudi guy for the last year and I am very much in love with him.

When we first started dating I heard that alot of people were saying its strange that he would date me, that he is religious. He follows Islam in every way other than the fact he is with me.

He recently came to me and said that he cannot deal with himself in this anymore. That he goes home and sometimes cries after being with me because it is Haram, but he does not want to leave me.

He has asked me to go with him to the Mosqe and marry. I am not ready for marriage and it is not in my culture to run out and get married quickly. So its not a leagal US marriage just in the mosqe so it is no longer haram for him to be with me. I love him I am willing to do this for him but I am a little scared.

First of all I want to know what your opinions are about the situation in general. Further I want to know what to expect. What happens in these ceremonies? What does being married in Islam mean for me?

Since you asked for an advice, here it is - brutal and honest:

Leave him. He is bad apple.

Do not marry a Wahhabi.

They are bad news. Hypocritical muslims.

You boyfriend will desert you, dump you, and betray you.

Wahhabis have already betrayed their God and His Prophet Mohamed.

I can go on but I think this should be sufficient for an intelligent lady.

Omrow

i wouldve given a destructive reply now but i did say im not gonna do this this time