Islam is not the problem. Muslims are.

Published by rakibm on 28 January, 2010 - 21:35
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Submitted by Tread Softly (not verified) on 30 January, 2010 - 09:10

NB: I am against a veil ban. I understand that wearing the veil is a personal and spiritual choice and in many/most cases in the UK a non-coerced choice.

The picture does sum up one of the (ridiculous) arguments for a veil nicely though!

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 13:50

Your telling me that someone that wants to blow themselves up has no control whether they want to or not?

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 13:55

No, can you not read? I have said that, if a headscarf ban would take place then that would be a step too far.Am not bothered about the Veil, i would support the Ban. The veil has nothing to do with Islam. It is something that was adopted and something non - muslims wrongly associate with the oppression of women.

Q. What are the requirements for Muslim women's dress?

A: Rules regarding Muslim women's (and men's) attire are derived from
the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and the traditions (hadith) of the
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In the Quran, God states: "Say to
the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their
modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their
gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty
and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they
should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty
except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)"
[Chapter 24, verses 30-31] Also, "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and
daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer
garments over their persons...that they should be known and not
molested." [Chapter 33, verse 59]

In one tradition, the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying: "...If the
woman reaches the age of puberty, no part of her body should be seen but
this --- and he pointed to his face and hands."

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.

There are similar, yet less obvious requirements for a Muslim male's
attire. 1) A Muslim man must always be covered from the navel to the
knees. 2) A Muslim man should similarly not wear tight, sheer,
revealing, or eye-catching clothing. In addition, a Muslim man is
prohibited from wearing silk clothing (except for medical reasons) or
gold jewelry. A Muslim woman may wear silk or gold.

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 13:58

If the ban takes place, then go to a so called "Islamic" Country then and wear it freely their. How about Saudi Arabia? I heard that men and women are treated equally there! LMAOO.

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 14:00

Yes. Because the Muslim Ummah is one. If their is a problem within the Ummah, then the Ummah can only truly can fix it.

"shows how easily you give in ....why not fight for something u want such as the viel and the headscarf ... why give in so easily ...why should we muslims have to fix this ..is ot our fault ...should we take the blame on behalf of other muslims who have blown themselves up .... let the goverment deal with getting better security in place...and not its not being lazy its doing whats right."

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 14:03

lmaoo, you obviously can not read. Someone else picked at my spelling mistake first, 2 can play at that game. Please check before you read so u don't sound like an idiot.

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 14:04

hahah! you really are pathetic! your the one that picked my spelling error up! "sheesh"!

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r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 14:04

Suhail wrote:
rakibm wrote:
you laugh at that you pathetic little boy. well you can't spell CLEVER! "celver" ! honestly!

Your telling me that if something is a threat to national security then that thing will not banned?

pathetic little boy....just stop being immature about it now sheeesh and yh i was typing fast and made a mistake its called a 'typo' woooo im such a bad speller now ini lol

hahah! you really are pathetic! your the one that picked my spelling error up first! "sheesh"! lolz.

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r@I

Submitted by Suhail (not verified) on 30 January, 2010 - 14:09

rakibm wrote:
Yes. Because the Muslim Ummah is one. If their is a problem within the Ummah, then the Ummah can only truly can fix it.

"shows how easily you give in ....why not fight for something u want such as the viel and the headscarf ... why give in so easily ...why should we muslims have to fix this ..is ot our fault ...should we take the blame on behalf of other muslims who have blown themselves up .... let the goverment deal with getting better security in place...and not its not being lazy its doing whats right."

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 14:19

Tread Softly wrote:

The covering of the entire body...does it not attract more attention to the Woman? Would more people not be STARING at her?

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r@I

Submitted by TPOS on 30 January, 2010 - 19:19

rakibm wrote:

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.


Did u not notice those words? MINIMUM requirements therefore covering your face would go to the next level, something "extra", not wrong.

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

P.S Love the pic lol

—

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 21:37

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

I thought one of the ideas of wearing the veil, is so you don't attract attention to yourself.

Yeah i know. But I posted that for the reason because some [if not most] of the women that wear the veil, thinking that you HAVE to wear it, when you clearly don't.

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r@I

Submitted by You on 30 January, 2010 - 21:44

rakibm wrote:
I thought one of the ideas of wearing the veil, is so you don't attract attention to yourself.

That is not entirely the case - the muslim dress code can also be... symbolic or recognisable.

[qs:33:59] (hover over it to read)

This verse mentions recognition (as Muslims) as a reason for covering.

The normal covering argument given by Muslims can nuance of argument and even be circumspect sometimes because if you do look at women in the middle east, I have heard that many veiled or covered women there do get harassed even though they may be veiled.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 21:51

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
rakibm wrote:

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.


Did u not notice those words? MINIMUM requirements therefore covering your face would go to the next level, something "extra", not wrong.

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

P.S Love the pic lol

This is what, I think, is the absoloute requirement for a Muslim Women. "The Essence of beauty, lies in modesty" these women look very "beautiful"

or even..dare i say it...

HOWEVER..this is a...STEP TOO FAR.

—

r@I

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 21:52

For the headscarf, yep i know!!

And tbhh, i think we all know what the veiling is a SYMBOL of.

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r@I

Submitted by Noor on 30 January, 2010 - 21:56

rakibm wrote:
or even..dare i say it...

HOWEVER..this is a...STEP TOO FAR.

in your opinion.

Submitted by Noor on 30 January, 2010 - 21:57

rakibm wrote:
And tbhh, i think we all know what the veiling is a SYMBOL of.

i don't.

enlighten me.

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 22:00

wow. you should get out more. i'll leave the enlightening for you to find out.

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r@I

Submitted by Noor on 30 January, 2010 - 22:01

rakibm wrote:
wow. you should get out more. i'll leave the enlightening for you to find out.

Sad

Submitted by malik on 30 January, 2010 - 22:28

rakibm wrote:

No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims

No but these civilised societies would want to still
waterboard people because they are victims of a beard.

Very civilised indeed. Lanat on them all.

—

Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".

Submitted by rakibm on 30 January, 2010 - 23:03

malik wrote:
rakibm wrote:

No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims

No but these civilised societies would want to still
waterboard people because they are victims of a beard.

Very civilised indeed. Lanat on them all.

You know why i chose that example? Because i was talking about Saudi Arabia. The Land of the Prophet, the Birth place of ISLAM, the cradle of our religion.

And yet..look at the state of it.

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r@I

Submitted by RI_RS on 31 January, 2010 - 15:22

Islam is not the problem. Muslims are not the problem.

YOU are.

So what if people want to wear it, so what if they don't?

Forcing them either way is oppressing them by not allowing people freedom to dress how they want.

P.s though, fair enough some islamic literature supports it, but i don't like the argument that they cover themselves up because men are 'perves' and 'desperados' because frankly

It generalises women as though everyone's automatically desired by everyone
What about women's sexual desire? That would mean men would should cover up for women too
even if men were uncontrollable, why should women have to cover up, why can't they learn some self discipline? Many do.
It generalises men in a very negative way
The prophets (pbut) were men.

So tbh that imo is only good enough to MAYBE be a weak SUPPORTING argument, but a few of you are using it as your main argument and i don't think it should hold at all.

—

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Submitted by You on 31 January, 2010 - 16:04

MakeMeRawr_6TeenF wrote:
So tbh that imo is only good enough to MAYBE be a weak SUPPORTING argument, but a few of you are using it as your main argument and i don't think it should hold at all.

I don't think it holds either - if everyone is covered, there is less "incentive" to treat the people better, it would simply become the new norm with the range behaviours and interactions staying the same as they are now.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by s.b.f on 31 January, 2010 - 16:14

I have just been asked to wear the above as a headscarf. o.O

Anyway:

Do you guys think its necessary to wear a headscarf in the western world? Where things like guys seeing your hair doesn't really provoke lots of 'indecenet' thoughts etc.?

If you ask anyone why girls wear a headscarf: the common answer you get is that so men don't judge you from appearance etc etc...... but what other reasons are there?

—

 

Submitted by Noor on 31 January, 2010 - 17:52

s.b.f wrote:
Do you guys think its necessary to wear a headscarf in the western world? Where things like guys seeing your hair doesn't really provoke lots of 'indecenet' thoughts etc.?

yes. hijaab is fardh.

and what do you mean by the western world?

why would the rulling change?

men are all the same, they don't change over centuries.

Quote:
If you ask anyone why girls wear a headscarf: the common answer you get is that so men don't judge you from appearance etc etc...... but what other reasons are there?

because God has told you to cover up (and then you go into all the details).

Submitted by TPOS on 1 February, 2010 - 21:43

@ rawry n you

if they don't wear it to protect themselves from men, then whats the point of the veil? :S

or am i misunderstanding

—

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Submitted by You on 1 February, 2010 - 21:53

the reason for covering (not the veil, but covering) for women when going out (given in the qur'an) is not anonymity, but recognition - to be recognised as Muslims.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by RI_RS on 1 February, 2010 - 21:57

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
@ rawry n you

if they don't wear it to protect themselves from men, then whats the point of the veil? :S

or am i misunderstanding

Are you seriously telling me that's the only reason you think there is to wear the veil? To shield the pretty women from the mean dirty men?

What about the other things? Symbolism, ahadith, love for God, life is a test etc?

—

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Submitted by TPOS on 1 February, 2010 - 21:59

oh ok tnx

—

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

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