Their unwanted backward mentality of not wanting to change and wanting to be stuck in the 7th Century.
No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims (evident in S.A) no other set of people kill their own because they bring shame on the family (Honor Killings), no other set of people kill each other (like Muslims do) in the Name of MY religion (evident in War - Torn countries) notice how many suicide bombing happen every day? And who the main victims are? No other set of people think that the word "Allah" belongs to them simply because it is Arabic (Malaysia).
It is very easy to blame someone else. Yet Muslims have a problem of not wanting to blame their own (yet some would happily kill their own - irony)
I would support the Ban on the veil. It is not welcome in Britain. As i have witnessed, people are saying that this is oppressing the rights of women who WANT to wear it. And it is their choice.
Well...If an english women were to be in Saudi Arabia, would she be able to freely walk around in a Bikini? I don't think so. You are a guest of the state, and you aide by their rules. I feel sorry for the Women that are being forced to wear it, and that is why i support the ban.
You live in England. Not in the lands of Arabia, so you DON'T wear the veil which is part of another countries Culture.
r@I
culture is not a fixed thing - it is fluid and it changes with time.
Culture is whatever people do.
I take issue with this part - you may be a guest here, but I am not. I am a resident citizen. What I do is a part of British culture simply because I do it.
and you are entitled to support the ban. Your right to even. I just don't agree with you.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Would you agree that a major part of "the problem" (whichever one that is that you are talking about) is one set of people forcing their set of beliefs and actions upon another?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Perhaps a belief that you shouldn't in general force a set of beliefs and actions upon another is appropriate though!
An interesting post rakibm, but I would say that there are two major contributing factors to "the problem".
Firstly a cultural problem, with Muslim families, even in the West, coming from poor second and third world countries with all the mysogynist etc cultural baggage that those backgrounds entail.
Secondly the religious problem, which is where, evidently unlike you, I believe Islam has a lot of fault. The problem has been noted before by many, including the amazing Ayaan Hirsi Ali (wonder if this post will get deleted because I mention her?!): in Islam the Koran is to be taken literally by Muslims. The Bible on the other hand does not have to be taken literally by Christians. So a Muslim has to accept all the amazing 7th century baggage in the Koran and Sunnah (forcing some Muslims to create convoluted apologies for slavery for instance) which exacerbates the inherent backwardness of the culture.
And yeh, I have come to think some cultures are better than others, although I was not brought up that way.
Can I feign offence at this bit?
and yes, she has been discussed before in the distant past.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I was actually mentioning what God Says. You abide by their rules. First of all.. r u a Muslim? Culture is a very important thing. and we should not accept MAJOR culture change. Because you never know what that can lead too. E.g. African Culture..FGM, imagine that in a 21st Century country!
r@I
So what should we NOT take literally from the Qur'an? and i agree with your first point.
r@I
now you are saying culture is important...
i can't take you seriously.
He is saying "when in Rome... don't be an arab" and that the roman culture is important to keep intact in rome and the arab one in arabistan, but exporting and mixing are bad.
Ofcourse I disagree. Keep the good, cut off the bad.
Culture is fluid and is whatever people do.
My culture is to be on the net all the time.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
the Quran uses metaphors believe it or not and some ayat are to be taken literally others aren't.
Are there any metaphors that have been taken literally by mistake? Or is it a case of these metaphors not possibly being taken literally?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
says who?
english people have pork, does that mean we must have pork too?
english people drink alcohol, does that mean we must drink too?
english people eat asian food, curry is number 1 dish, does that mean they cannot eat it because it is from a different culture, another country?
britain is a multicultural society, if you have a problem with that then leave.
yes.
Hi Rakibm, I'm a Dirty Athiest Kaffir
not true.
also, why change if you don't need to?
that is happening abroad, not in england. honour killings happen all over, wake up.
those people happen to be muslim, so what! it is part of their culture, it is obviously more important to them than islam.
and you are entitled to your opinion. who says it is not welcomed in britain? has there been an official announcement from gordon brown?
the UK hasn't banned the niqaab so there is nothing stopping women from wearing it. they aint breaking any law by doing it. if that is the law in saudi then an english woman must abide by it.
ok, we know you have a heart.
you're obviously so concerned about them so why don't you join some charity or something that helps oppressed women?
That IS what he is saying - you would not want such practices to be imported into the UK, hence foreign cultures should remain foreign. That is his argument.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I don't see what the problem is if the bit of the culture practiced doesn't go against Islamic teachings :S
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
ok that is bs.
if the practice isn't harming anyone and isn't illegal then where is the problem?
@rakibm, do you follow a particular culture or have any aspect of culture in your life?
Yeh British Culture is important in Britain. Let Pakistani, Arabian, African [etc] culture stay in those countries!
r@I
Which practise is not harming anyone? The whipping of rape victims? honor killings?
r@I
More, if the practices are harmful (which FGM is) then they should be challenged in those countries/places too, not allowed to peacefully exist because it was traditional.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
So you want such things to continue in the countries where they may happen?
The Islamic position is that the Prophet and the caliphs on occasion accepted the statement of a single woman without any witnesses before meeting out the punishment.
You are confusing crime/injustice with traditions - if the traditions are unislamic or unjust or criminal, they should be challenged where ever they are encountered, not just prevented from spreading.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
You obviously don't.
"also, why change if you don't need to?"
So stoning a woman or a man to death does not need to be changed?
Ok.
And
"those people happen to be muslim, so what! it is part of their culture, it is obviously more important to them than islam."
Yeah exactly. Those barbaric practises need to stay at the shores of those countries.
Britain is a free and liberal democracy when equal right [to some extent i agree with] exist. We are not in 7th Century Arabia.
r@I
Disagree here - crime and injustice should be combated where ever, and if it means exporting our culture to do so, then so be it.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
can you quote the posts you're referring to, makes life so much easier.
honor killing does not belong to a particular culture, it happens all over. whipping of rape victims again, well tbh i don't know much about it. but as far as i know it doesn't happen here and isn't an islamic tradition.
we're not talking about bad practices here, no one is encouraging them.
Rite...You obviously are not understand what i am saying.
Which practise is not harming anyone? The whipping of rape victims? honor killings?
that is a question of culture, which Muslims are committing. That i am saying, if it is in their culture, then it should stay within that culture because obviously culture means more to them then religion.
r@I
That's the thing!
For some reasons, muslims [ i have come accross] do not want to move away from their culture, even though they live in England! That is why I said Muslims are the Problem.
And "Exporting" our culture? Are you mad? The Taliban and Al - Qaeda hate Western Presence in their so called "Islamic" Countries, i don't think they would be very fond of our culture either. If they want to continue their indecent traditions, then let them do so where it is accepted.
r@I
You are repeating yourself. So so shall I.
If those practices and traditions are crimes or unjust, they should be combated there too, not just here.
But that does not mean that traditions cannot evolve or migrate or begin anew or even die.
The practice which is not harming anyone is a woman choosing to wear a veil. If someone freely chooses to wear one, they do.
You seem to be tone dead to the nuances of argument and debate. Repeating yourself constantly does not legitimise what you say. Try reading it more carefully.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
That is what you said. I said which practises are not hurting people? Honor Killings? FGM? Flogging?
r@I
Pages