Islam is not the problem. Muslims are.

rakibm —

Their unwanted backward mentality of not wanting to change and wanting to be stuck in the 7th Century.

No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims (evident in S.A) no other set of people kill their own because they bring shame on the family (Honor Killings), no other set of people kill each other (like Muslims do) in the Name of MY religion (evident in War - Torn countries) notice how many suicide bombing happen every day? And who the main victims are? No other set of people think that the word "Allah" belongs to them simply because it is Arabic (Malaysia).

It is very easy to blame someone else. Yet Muslims have a problem of not wanting to blame their own (yet some would happily kill their own - irony)

I would support the Ban on the veil. It is not welcome in Britain. As i have witnessed, people are saying that this is oppressing the rights of women who WANT to wear it. And it is their choice.

Well...If an english women were to be in Saudi Arabia, would she be able to freely walk around in a Bikini? I don't think so. You are a guest of the state, and you aide by their rules. I feel sorry for the Women that are being forced to wear it, and that is why i support the ban.

Forum

Tread Softly (not verified) — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 09:10

NB: I am against a veil ban. I understand that wearing the veil is a personal and spiritual choice and in many/most cases in the UK a non-coerced choice.

The picture does sum up one of the (ridiculous) arguments for a veil nicely though!

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 13:55

No, can you not read? I have said that, if a headscarf ban would take place then that would be a step too far.Am not bothered about the Veil, i would support the Ban. The veil has nothing to do with Islam. It is something that was adopted and something non - muslims wrongly associate with the oppression of women.

Q. What are the requirements for Muslim women's dress?

A: Rules regarding Muslim women's (and men's) attire are derived from
the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and the traditions (hadith) of the
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In the Quran, God states: "Say to
the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their
modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their
gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty
and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they
should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty
except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)"
[Chapter 24, verses 30-31] Also, "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and
daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer
garments over their persons...that they should be known and not
molested." [Chapter 33, verse 59]

In one tradition, the Prophet Muhammad is quoted as saying: "...If the
woman reaches the age of puberty, no part of her body should be seen but
this --- and he pointed to his face and hands."

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.

There are similar, yet less obvious requirements for a Muslim male's
attire. 1) A Muslim man must always be covered from the navel to the
knees. 2) A Muslim man should similarly not wear tight, sheer,
revealing, or eye-catching clothing. In addition, a Muslim man is
prohibited from wearing silk clothing (except for medical reasons) or
gold jewelry. A Muslim woman may wear silk or gold.

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 13:58

If the ban takes place, then go to a so called "Islamic" Country then and wear it freely their. How about Saudi Arabia? I heard that men and women are treated equally there! LMAOO.

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 14:00

Yes. Because the Muslim Ummah is one. If their is a problem within the Ummah, then the Ummah can only truly can fix it.

"shows how easily you give in ....why not fight for something u want such as the viel and the headscarf ... why give in so easily ...why should we muslims have to fix this ..is ot our fault ...should we take the blame on behalf of other muslims who have blown themselves up .... let the goverment deal with getting better security in place...and not its not being lazy its doing whats right."

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 14:03

lmaoo, you obviously can not read. Someone else picked at my spelling mistake first, 2 can play at that game. Please check before you read so u don't sound like an idiot.

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 14:04

[quote=Suhail][quote=rakibm]you laugh at that you pathetic little boy. well you can't spell CLEVER! "celver" ! honestly!

Your telling me that if something is a threat to national security then that thing will not banned?

[/quote]

pathetic little boy....just stop being immature about it now sheeesh and yh i was typing fast and made a mistake its called a 'typo' woooo im such a bad speller now ini lol[/quote]

hahah! you really are pathetic! your the one that picked my spelling error up first! "sheesh"! lolz.

Suhail (not verified) — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 14:09

[quote=rakibm]Yes. Because the Muslim Ummah is one. If their is a problem within the Ummah, then the Ummah can only truly can fix it.

"shows how easily you give in ....why not fight for something u want such as the viel and the headscarf ... why give in so easily ...why should we muslims have to fix this ..is ot our fault ...should we take the blame on behalf of other muslims who have blown themselves up .... let the goverment deal with getting better security in place...and not its not being lazy its doing whats right."

[/quote]

TPOS — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 19:19

[quote=rakibm]

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.[/quote]
Did u not notice those words? MINIMUM requirements therefore covering your face would go to the next level, something "extra", not wrong.

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

P.S Love the pic lol

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 21:37

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

I thought one of the ideas of wearing the veil, is so you don't attract attention to yourself.

Yeah i know. But I posted that for the reason because some [if not most] of the women that wear the veil, thinking that you HAVE to wear it, when you clearly don't.

You — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 21:44

[quote=rakibm]I thought one of the ideas of wearing the veil, is so you don't attract attention to yourself.[/quote]

That is not entirely the case - the muslim dress code can also be... symbolic or recognisable.

[qs:33:59] (hover over it to read)

This verse mentions recognition (as Muslims) as a reason for covering.

The normal covering argument given by Muslims can nuance of argument and even be circumspect sometimes because if you do look at women in the middle east, I have heard that many veiled or covered women there do get harassed even though they may be veiled.

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 21:51

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE][quote=rakibm]

From these and other references, the vast majority of Muslim scholars
and jurists, past and present, have determined the minimum requirements
for Muslim women's dress: 1) Clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands. 2) The attire should not be
form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or
reveal the shape of the body.[/quote]
Did u not notice those words? MINIMUM requirements therefore covering your face would go to the next level, something "extra", not wrong.

As for being stared at well does it really matter? its not like they can see anything apart from their eyes and those who choose to wear it are comfortable with it so why do u care whether their stared at or not?

P.S Love the pic lol[/quote]

This is what, I think, is the absoloute requirement for a Muslim Women. "The Essence of beauty, lies in modesty" these women look very "beautiful"

or even..dare i say it...

HOWEVER..this is a...STEP TOO FAR.

malik — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 22:28

[quote=rakibm]

No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims

[/quote]

No but these civilised societies would want to still
waterboard people because they are victims of a beard.

Very civilised indeed. Lanat on them all.

rakibm — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 - 23:03

[quote=malik][quote=rakibm]

No civilised society would want to still whip women because they are rape victims

[/quote]

No but these civilised societies would want to still
waterboard people because they are victims of a beard.

Very civilised indeed. Lanat on them all.

[/quote]

You know why i chose that example? Because i was talking about Saudi Arabia. The Land of the Prophet, the Birth place of ISLAM, the cradle of our religion.

And yet..look at the state of it.

RI_RS — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 - 15:22

Islam is not the problem. Muslims are not the problem.

YOU are.

So what if people want to wear it, so what if they don't?

Forcing them either way is oppressing them by not allowing people freedom to dress how they want.

P.s though, fair enough some islamic literature supports it, but i don't like the argument that they cover themselves up because men are 'perves' and 'desperados' because frankly

It generalises women as though everyone's automatically desired by everyone
What about women's sexual desire? That would mean men would should cover up for women too
even if men were uncontrollable, why should women have to cover up, why can't they learn some self discipline? Many do.
It generalises men in a very negative way
The prophets (pbut) were men.

So tbh that imo is only good enough to MAYBE be a weak SUPPORTING argument, but a few of you are using it as your main argument and i don't think it should hold at all.

You — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 - 16:04

[quote=MakeMeRawr_6TeenF]So tbh that imo is only good enough to MAYBE be a weak SUPPORTING argument, but a few of you are using it as your main argument and i don't think it should hold at all.[/quote]

I don't think it holds either - if everyone is covered, there is less "incentive" to treat the people better, it would simply become the new norm with the range behaviours and interactions staying the same as they are now.

s.b.f — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 - 16:14

http://www.everyjoe.com/files/95/2008/07/pac-man-scarf.jpg

I have just been asked to wear the above as a headscarf. o.O

Anyway:

Do you guys think its necessary to wear a headscarf in the western world? Where things like guys seeing your hair doesn't really provoke lots of 'indecenet' thoughts etc.?

If you ask anyone why girls wear a headscarf: the common answer you get is that so men don't judge you from appearance etc etc...... but what other reasons are there?

Noor — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 - 17:52

[quote=s.b.f]Do you guys think its necessary to wear a headscarf in the western world? Where things like guys seeing your hair doesn't really provoke lots of 'indecenet' thoughts etc.? [/quote]

yes. hijaab is fardh.

and what do you mean by the western world?

why would the rulling change?

men are all the same, they don't change over centuries.

[quote]If you ask anyone why girls wear a headscarf: the common answer you get is that so men don't judge you from appearance etc etc...... but what other reasons are there?[/quote]

because God has told you to cover up (and then you go into all the details).

You — Mon, 1 Feb 2010 - 21:53

the reason for covering (not the veil, but covering) for women when going out (given in the qur'an) is not anonymity, but recognition - to be recognised as Muslims.

RI_RS — Mon, 1 Feb 2010 - 21:57

[quote=ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE]@ rawry n you

if they don't wear it to protect themselves from men, then whats the point of the veil? :S

or am i misunderstanding[/quote]

Are you seriously telling me that's the only reason you think there is to wear the veil? To shield the pretty women from the mean dirty men?

What about the other things? Symbolism, ahadith, love for God, life is a test etc?