Just a question that came up from this blog post from London Muslim:

Should Muslims wear a poppy?

While travelling around London over the past week what struck me was the number of predominately white middle aged men who wear poppy's compared with virtually no ethnic minorities. It got me thinking why ethnic minorities and in particular Muslims appear reluctant to wear a poppy. My own view is that the significance of wearing a poppy has been diluted for a number of complex and not always inter related reasons.

London Muslim believes the Blair legacy of transforming our armed forces into a mercenary outfit for the Americans where they have been ultimately responsible for the death and slaughter of thousands of innocent Muslim civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be underestimated. In the minds of many, our boys are no longer only associated with the defeat of Nazi tyranny or Galtieri's conscripts in the Falklands. In the case of Afghanistan the British Army is fighting and dying for a Karzai regime whose leaders are mostly on the CIA payroll, carry out fraudulent elections, have increased the supply of opium largely through Karzai's brother who is one of the world's biggest drug barons and have allowed rampant corruption. Not worth the blood of British soldiers.

The blurring of the role of our armed forces who now help to prop up corrupt CIA regimes in Afghanistan has led many to associate a poppy with support for these latest disastrous military adventures. Lets be clear when British soldiers are killed by Afghans fighting to liberate their country from foreign occupation why should we be surprised. What do we expect Afghans to do, sit in their villages or farms and wait to be bombed by American drones. Although we never learn from history Afghans will kill British soldiers as surely as we would kill Afghans if they militarily occupied Britain.

In addition, the role the Commonwealth played from the West Indies to India has also been downplayed to the extent that one can often recall the role Australians and Kiwi's played but until recently the non white commonwealth contribution has been relegated to an afterthought. The interesting reaction when the non white commonwealth contribution is highlighted is to emphasise the importance of all those who fought the Nazis, which while correct is slightly disingenuous because that has not been happening until recently.

Should Muslims wear a poppy? In my opinion no. Lets respect what our gallant heroes did in both world wars but lets not allow sentimental rituals to inculcate a collective amnesia where we remember but never learn. Surely if remembrance is to mean anything it should mean never again. Remembrance and poppy wearing has still allowed wars with Muslims dying in their thousands along with British soldiers. I will grieve for both but not with a poppy.

So what do you think?

It occured to me that "british muslims" are possibly in this country because their forefathers came for a better life in a democratic country............so I firmly believe they should honour our war dead that fought to give them the standard of living in a country they now call home!

dunno, i dont see whats bad about it really - no i havnt really read the above article 🙂

[quote=Deb]It occured to me that "british muslims" are possibly in this country because their forefathers came for a better life in a democratic country............so I firmly believe they should honour our war dead that fought to give them the standard of living in a country they now call home! [/quote]

A well thought out answer - thank you.

Another thought - should the concept of the poppy etc be abandoned altogether? Its not like its just "the Muslims" who were fed lies for the current wars...

It's like one of the adverts that I saw on a billboard the other day.. a soldier with an amputated leg with the caption "For his sake, buy a poppy" and my initial thought was "for his sake you shouldn't have gone into war" ...

PS while the question has been phrased as such, I don't think this is a Muslim Vs Non Muslim issue as many Muslims died in WW1 (both sides) and WW2 (where if the Nazis won, there is little chance they would have wanted Muslims to stay around... when the french surrendered while the Caucasians were made into POW's, the non Caucasians from French colonies were simply executed on site.)

Im confused by this ad. 'For his sake...' ... does the money from poppy sales go to helpn injured soldiers??

And its for supporting our soldiers... not necessarily the war. The blame for that squarely lies with the government. Soldiers just follow orders.

[quote=Deb]It occured to me that "british muslims" are possibly in this country because their forefathers came for a better life in a democratic country............so I firmly believe they should honour our war dead that fought to give them the standard of living in a country they now call home! [/quote]

Perhaps it should also occur to you luv that many British Muslims are here because they were born here and then only because when their elder generations were living happily ever after in their motherlands the Great British Empire thought to expand in those very motherlands, made their homelands British Colonies, stamped all I'd cards and birth/death etc certificates as British, looted the wealth and buggered up their economies but also ensured that they too played their parts in any wars GB partook in so its not that they saw GB as a better way of life, it was their RIGHT to reside here since this joint made their joint part of the Groupie

No one tells the Aussies that they come here for a better life - they have ancestral visas they claim right to reside here from and likewise many elder generation Muslims and todays Muslims have that RIGHT to reside here since they were and are more British than the Aussies who have the ancestral visa and all because their passports and birth certs were signed by Yours Truely, British General Registrar

(Yes there may be the very odd 1 or 2 who are here to take back their oil, crown jewels, spices, concept of algebra, diamonds etc etc 🙂 )

Oh yeah and back to the original question I agree with the comment that the brit govt are to blame with poppies now being associated with the current wars taking place - even I don't like the concept of a poppy anymore cuz to me it signifies the current daily bloodshed taking place but I do remember the days when it signified rememberance for those in the 1st two WWs.

I think it should now be done away with because of this but if the brit govt wants to keep the poppy tradition I think it now lies well to actively include everyone innocently dying in wars which includes the innocent civilians in middle east, afghanistan, pakistan, bosnians etc otherwise do away with it cuz no ones really learnt a lesson from it

@ Saira - even if we were born here, we DO have a choice whether we stay here and what role we play in society.

To me the poppy also reminds me of... drugs, heroin. Considering Afghanistan, its an apt symbol, no?

(I don't think its wrong to wear a poppy. Its just messy due to wars of aggression.)

Yeah we have a choice but its not like the "motherland" is a Brit born's original homeland - I mean if I got told to "go back home", I'd just catch my bus or train back as opposed to booking a flight right out. Also its not as if those in the motherlands consider Brit borns their people either - we're "valaytis" or "immigration" for many of them.

But anyway back to the poppy, yes it is heroin in a pretty form and yes the drugs route, afghanistan, it all seems to patronising n out of taste considering the situation.

But hey "history repeats itself" and yonks ago the brits started the Opium Trade to get their foot into China and now they're doing it via Afghanistan and I think they've done it via another asian country too, not sure which

Do you think the British government is tacitly backing the opium trade?

My personal opinion is that it is less grandiose than that - just that their partners and allies are corrupt. I am sure they would stamp it out if they could as the money can currently be funnelled into groups that will do nasty things and oppose them...

...Saying that I will also say that I am unsure what the best solution is Afghanistan is - leaving them to their own ways did not work in the 90's, what makes us think it will work now?

Maybe the better option is to stick it out and try to pacify the place a little. For their and our goods.

(Yes, I am not of the opinion where meddling is always bad...)

assalamu alaikum,

i was discussing this with my brother the other day, because i was thinking if it was right morally as a muslim, for me to wear a poppy. In the past I have done so. My brother informed me the poppy is no longer just about the remembrance of world war veterans, their widows and families. Today it encompasses soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan for example. You may have seen billboards of soldiers with Support our troops slogans and the poppy appeal emblazoned over it. Me wearing the poppy is saying I'm cool with british soldiers who have killed muslims abroad in their campaign to force ppl into democratic regime. I'm not cool with it, so i refuse to wear the poppy.

As for those who passed away fighting for more just causes like against Nazi rule, and ethnic cleansing I will respect them always but i can't respect those killing muslims as we speak.

Even in Iraq, the main war may have been wrong, but the times after it were more peacekeeping, trying to get Iraqis to stand on their own two feet.

The "resistance" lost all credibility (even to Iraqis) when they started to blow each other up instead of fighting the occupation.

And since then, the British have now left after training up a local force, and the Americans are currently being reduced to their forces.

No matter how wrong the initial invasion was, there is a possibility that Iraq will end up a better place in the future than if there was no war.

As for Afghanistan - no sane person wants to be there, but people have a guilty conscience of abandoning the people in the last decade and while the strategy is failing/has failed, the intention is not an exploitative one IMO.

As for the symbolic nature of it all... WW1 was most probably not a "righteous war" either, so that has never been a concern and the symbolism of it all is supposed to be greater and is not just for the fallen from one side or the other, but all.

(On the other hand, there are soldiers protecting the Muslim Kosovars out there too...)

Oh well this is interesting i guess i wont buy poppies anymore then if its all about Iraq and Afghanistan. They told us to shut up for two minutes today cause it was 'rememberance day'.

I wear a poppy for a few days to show my respect to those who died for my country.

Some local muslims boys object to this, but after a bit of reasonable debate, they see the point.

What do you call a "reasonable debate"?

A debate is reasonable when you dont thump one another or bad mouth one another.

Makes sense. I was unsure if you had allowed for violence in the reasonable debates as people rarely change their minds about things - worse it is seen as a sign of weakness by many.

Violence always comes AFTER the unreasonable debate.

Violence never comes DURING or AFTER a reasonable debate.

i know exactly :|

i don't understand how wearing a poppy shows u support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan

the 2 minute silence is to remember everyone who's died in war; not just the british, american, afghan's, iraqi...

my form tutor reminded us that since WW1 & WW2 there have been more deaths in war than those put together in those wars and told us to remember them too.

I havn't wore a poppy since i came to secondary school.

Muslims had no wealth in their own country - they came here for a better life to escape their infested pit of an existence and then simply try and live the way they lived in their homeland - it makes no sense whatsoever. There is absolutely zero tolerance for anything other than Islam. No other immigrants behave in this way - not Hindus not Sikhs not Eastern European not blacks - absolutely nobody. There are no prosperous Islamic countries at all - they adopt nothing and give nothing to the country they have joined. There is almost no integration - everyone should speak English not Urdu it breeds total segration - you are the poison of the world

[quote=paul]Muslims had no wealth in their own country - they came here for a better life to escape their infested pit of an existence and then simply try and live the way they lived in their homeland - it makes no sense whatsoever. There is absolutely zero tolerance for anything other than Islam. No other immigrants behave in this way - not Hindus not Sikhs not Eastern European not blacks - absolutely nobody. There are no prosperous Islamic countries at all - they adopt nothing and give nothing to the country they have joined. There is almost no integration - everyone should speak English not Urdu it breeds total segration - you are the poison of the world[/quote]
Wow! you're SO right! like Oh Em Gee! :shock:

I think if you live in the UK you should be wearing one regardless or race or religion. The point of a poppy is a symbol of sacrifice.

That is the young men and women serving in the forces courageously but nervously stepping into battle. Their struggle and sacrifice made the UK what it is today.

Without them, we all may be living differently. It is respectful to the heroes of yesterday.

I could not imagine the horrors they all faced.

do not allow the red tape of religion or race to blur the edges here. A poppy = a life lost at war for the freedoms you practice on a daily basis.

Honour that tradition.

http://likulous.com/100324

[quote=paul]Muslims had no wealth in their own country - they came here for a better life to escape their infested pit of an existence and then simply try and live the way they lived in their homeland - it makes no sense whatsoever. There is absolutely zero tolerance for anything other than Islam. No other immigrants behave in this way - not Hindus not Sikhs not Eastern European not blacks - absolutely nobody. There are no prosperous Islamic countries at all - they adopt nothing and give nothing to the country they have joined. There is almost no integration - everyone should speak English not Urdu it breeds total segration - you are the poison of the world[/quote]

I would just like to point out that not every Muslim speaks Urdu. However i do agree that people should try to speak the common language of the country so that it builds bridges rather than walls.

Your other comments - well let's just agree to disagree.

About the topic at hand - the poppy is a sign of rememberance and yes we should remember those who have died during the wars. However although wearing the poppy is not a bad thing, i also think that we should not limit ourselves to remembering those who have died in the first or second war or even limit ourselves to be remembering them just today, instead we should remember those who've died in the countless number of wars that occur in the world everyday - that includes both soldiers and the citizens of the country.

[quote=Now-inCanada]I think if you live in the UK you should be wearing one regardless or race or religion. The point of a poppy is a symbol of sacrifice.[/quote]

Yes, great sacrifice of great people in order to secure oil for the new industries and to keep the rising Germany down.

Very Noble.

You are aware that after the occupation of Iraq, Winston Vhurchil was the first person to gas the kurds? If there was any sign of either insurrection or late payment of taxes, send in the planes to gas bomb the villages.

As for the war itself, chemical weapons were used by the British in their attempt to break through the turkish lines at Gaza. They succeeded at the third attempt.

Are these the sacrifices we should be honouring?

Do not mix my meaning into some form of he said she said. You have completely missed the point of my comment due to your misguided interpretation of what it means to serve in any armed force. What bearing Churchill has on the poppy is beyond me. We do not place on our poppies and say "this is because we are in the middle east" blah blah blah. The poppy is a representation of the dead in war wether their sacrifice was in vain, for a noble/un-noble cause or whatever. They died. They are now dead. It's something we can't go change but we say "we remember" because we honor their bravery. No need to bring politics into the mix

But the politics matter. By showing that the soldiers will always be supported, you tell the leaders that there are no consequences for their actions.

If some people want to deliver that message then go ahead, do it by all means.

I have no issue with others wearing a poppy because I understand why they wear it. At the same time I do mpt wish to wear it due to what it means to me.

I also see no problem with people observing the silence for armistice. My issue is people do not fully understand the context of these traditions and how history is npt clean or innocent.

Mhmm
Yeah but do you guys agree with the whole Poppy burning done by muslims? :/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-cl…

no.

Yes it was stupid and pointless