The events of today can allow us to see the initial attack in a new light.

3 tube stations. 1 bus. Again.

We had been told that the bus bomb was supposed to go off in a tube station. But a bus was targeted today. Was the initial attack also supposed to attack a bus? Or was this just a copycat attack which took into consideration the actual events of the 7/7 attack?

Suicide?

There was doubt as to whether the 7/7 attackers knew that they were on a suicide mission. This was because they wore rucksacks not belts and the bombs went off simultaneously suggesting remote detonation.

All of today's bombs failed to properly detonate. If they were to have been detonated manually then you would expect at least some to go off properly. The fact that they all failed to go off properly suggests there were problems at the remote detonator's end.

I'm thinking the 7/7 attacks were remote detonated. But did the bombers know they would go up with the bomb? I think so. It would have been pretty difficult for them to leave a masssive rucksack on a train and not have anyone notice it until the bomb goes off.

Today's bombers seem to have escaped. If the 7/7 bombers were unaware that they were on a suicide mission, then today's bombers would have known that they themselves were on a suicide mission. They would have known that the 7/7 bombers died in the explosions.

Why again?

If the police were anywhere near catching the perpetrators of the first attack then this would not have happened today. Either the same people were behind both attacks or there are two groups, one for 7/7 one for today. But they must have some blindingly obvious connection that the police, if they were doing the jobs properly, should have picked up on.

That's my analysis of the details I've sketchily picked up on.

Wow, this is how Sicky must feel.

Maybe if all Muslim organisations had fully and unequivocally condemned 7/7, no ifs no buts, then this might not have happened again.

Quote:

Condemnation with scant information will only aid the leaders of the West who want to use fear as a tool to change our Ummah...

Quote:

Sadly condemnation has become a political tool of the government...

Quote:

...unreserved condemnation without clear proof, ties you into the blame game of who did it.

Quote:

It may seem to some that the world is a sad place when something as seemingly simple and humane as condemning these killings has become politicised...

HT

"Admin" wrote:

I see. Who was that by the way?

HT.

Imagine what AM must have said.

"Admin" wrote:

Good thing they have disbanded then! (I think)

They have. The remnants call themselves the Saviour Sect.

"Admin" wrote:

But todays incident was rather bizarre. Don't know what to make of it.

An attack that went wrong? Or right, depending on how you look at it.

"Admin" wrote:

True.

The part I don't understand is four explosives misfiring. Thank god they did, but one is laziness. Two is coincidence. but four? copycats? a setup? infiltration? I do not know.

Like I said before, maybe these were supposed to have gone off by remote detonation simultaneously, but there may have been a problem at the detonator's end.

"Admin" wrote:

On another forums (A nonmuslim, gaming one), someone speculated this could have been done by a third party to strike fear and try to kickstart race hatred...

Possibly.

"irfan" wrote:

Maybe if all Muslim organisations had fully and unequivocally condemned 7/7, no ifs no buts, then this might not have happened again.

Armed police have surrounded the East London Mosque!!

[b]
Muslims must stop wallowing in imaginary grievances[/b]
FOR a brief moment after the London bombings, and before yesterday's shocking events, it seemed that moderate Muslims in Britain were finally prepared to confront the nihilistic death cult that is attempting to seize control of their faith.
But no sooner had the platitudes of regret over the murderous attacks been uttered, than Muslim leaders returned to the familiar, but entirely unproductive, ground of attempting to discover the "root causes" of the atrocity.
So rather than tackle the bloodthirsty racism of many in their midst, spokesman after spokesman instead blamed the disgusting violence of their co-religionists on our old friends "Islamophobia, unemployment, economic deprivation and social exclusion".
Economic deprivation? Just days before slaughtering eight innocent people near Aldgate on the London Tube, Shehzad Tanweer was swanning around Beeston showing off a new Mercedes-Benz bought for him by his doting father. If this is "social exclusion", I wouldn't mind a bit of it
myself.
Just how many luxury cars does each 22-year-old Muslim have
to be given before they stop complaining about "economic deprivation"?
In truth, the Leeds suicide bombers had done very well out of their fathers' decisions to emigrate to the UK. If they had stayed in Mirpur, these young men would consider themselves lucky to living off a handful of rice a day.
Here they have been able to take full advantage of the religious, political and economic freedoms of an advanced Western society.
Their families owned homes and businesses, and they were well educated, some of them to university level. Luxury
cars, electronic gadgets and foreign trips were showered upon them.
They are not in the least bit unusual in the Muslim communities in the UK. We have Muslim MPs, Muslim members of the House of Lords, Muslim millionaires, Muslim doctors and Muslim university professors. Muslims in this country are among the richest and most free in the world.
Compared to the backward barbarism of much of the Muslim world, the UK is a model of enlightened egalitarianism.
But far from feeling a sense of gratitude and loyalty to the country that provided these opportunities, many young British Muslims hate this country with an irrational and sometimes violent passion.
Their list of imagined grievances is never ending and always changing – Kashmir, Chechnya, the West Bank, Gaza, the mythical massacres of Jenin and Fallujah, Guantanamo Bay, Belmarsh Jail, and on and on without cease.
It is significant that Kosovo, where Western intervention saved thousands of Muslim lives, never gets a mention.
Neither does Darfur, where Islamic militias have waged a genocidal jihad against poor black farmers. They don't fit the template.
The defeatists and appeasers in the West argue that if we address these complaints, the Jihadis may be persuaded to stop blowing us up.
But the problem is not just where do you start on this list of grievances, but when would you ever finish.
If, for example, a peaceful solution was found to the problems of Kashmir, British Muslims would simply be encouraged to add another litany of complaints to the long list – the Balfour declaration, the British empire, Coca-Cola, girls in short skirts, the existence of homosexuals and Jews, the loss of the Caliphate of al-Andalus (that's Spain to you and me) etc.
Whatever the West does will be wrong as far as they are concerned. If we do nothing while corrupt Muslim leaders oppress their people – as in Saudi Arabia and Egypt – then it is all our
fault.
If, however, we depose tyrants and liberate Muslim people – as in Afghanistan and Iraq – well, that's our fault, too. We just can't win.
In dozens of interviews on the streets of Leeds, the same themes were repeated – a wallowing in imagined grievances, a belief in barmy conspiracy theories, a feeling of thwarted entitlement, a burning sense of victimhood and humiliation – all fertile ground for the extremist preachers and their message of hate.
No doubt each time Tanweer turned the ignition on his sleek Mercedes, it was a reminder of the success of Western culture when compared to his own, and his feelings of humiliation burned ever hotter – with murderous consequences.
I am not sure how moderate Muslims can confront these problems – but owning up honestly to the crisis they face would be a good start.
source: Yorkshire Post

your feedback on this pls.
wasalaam

Has anyone noticed they're referring to the bombings as 7/7 now, as they did with the Sep 11 (or later as its known as 9/11).

"Seraph" wrote:

Has anyone noticed they're referring to the bombings as 7/7 now, as they did with the Sep 11 (or later as its known as 9/11).

yep, this guy on islam channel was callin it 7/7 it sounded pure weird!

Salam

I dont believe in conspiracy theories but this is interesting.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover070905a.htm

Taken from:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread154660/pg1
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/london/index.htm

Omrow

Look at this [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Londonbombing2.jpg]picture[/url] of the bombers at Luton train station.

Look at the the guy with the white cap. Focus on the lower part of his left arm. It looks as though the railing is infront of him.

lol..

yeh.. the more i look at the pic the more it look like a photoshop job.

dunno his hand cudve bin in his pocket.. but the line of the raling is too sharp..

and the guy on the far right has got one of his legs missing from the knee down..

"khan" wrote:

and the guy on the far right has got one of his legs missing from the knee down..

No he doesn't. He's walking so has one leg bent back. Do you walk with your knees straightened up?

On closer inspection of the image I linked to before, I have noticed that behind the railings there is a vague reflection of three of the men in the picture.

[img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5092/7722ft.png[/img]

The white cap is where it should be. Maybe the guy's left arm was bent after all.

Tube bomb suspect held by police

Suspected bomber Yasin Hassan Omar has been arrested by police in Birmingham investigating the failed 21 July attacks in London, the BBC understands.

Omar, 24, suspected of the attack near Warren Street Tube station, was held in a dawn raid after being stunned with a Taser gun, the BBC has learnt.

It is believed a rucksack he was carrying at the time was thrown out of a window by officers.

In Birmingham, shortly after the man believed to be Omar was arrested early on Wednesday, a further three men were detained at a separate address and were being held in the city.

The first man was arrested in Heybarnes Road, in the Small Heath area of Birmingham, at 0430 BST on Wednesday, and later taken to London.

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4720027.stm]BBC News[/url]

SALAAM

An interesting anti- Islamic and anti-Palestinian article from the Jewish Press...what else should we expect

[b]Facing The Same Enemy — London, Washington And Jerusalem In The Time Of Terror
Posted 7/27/2005
THE JEWISH PRESS
By Louis Rene Beres [/b]
In its still feeble war against Arab/Islamic terror, the West continues to think against itself. Failing to understand that tiny Israel is the indispensable front line in this protracted war, President Bush and Prime Minister Blair proceed with their sorry plan to reward Palestinian terror while seeking to protect their own respective countries. Although the catastrophic harms they will surely bring to us with their confused strategy are certainly unintended, this absence of malice will bring precious little comfort to entire legions of impending American and British terror victims.

There is a direct and consequential link between the London bombings of July 7th and Israel`s soon to be inflicted policy of "disengagement." When Prime Minister Sharon proceeds to transform Gaza and parts of Samaria into a region free of Jews, these lands will immediately become key preparation points for new waves of mega-terror against the United States and England.

Even more ominous, particular elements of the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, in close collaboration with elements of al-Qaeda and Hezbullah, will promptly begin to plan seriously for WMD terror in New York, Washington and London. For some unfathomable reason, Messrs. Bush and Blair have yet to recall that sacrificing Czechoslovakia in 1938 did not prevent World War II. Certainly they should have learned by now, that the smell of carrion can only inflame the vulture.

And then, there is Israel in the Summer of 2005, also thinking against itself. On the very eve of Prime Minister Sharon`s illegal and profane disengagement from Gaza, much of Israel continues to ignore the obvious. The official map of Palestine remains clear and explicit. Gaza is still the start of a long-established and never-revoked plan to dismantle Israel in "phases." This carefully-constructed cartography defines the emergent 23rd Arab state to include all of Judea/Samaria (West Bank), Gaza, and the entire State of Israel. A small slice of Jordan is also included on the map, which purposefully excludes any references to Jewish populations.

It follows from all this that if you liked London, you`ll love disengagement. Israel`s planned August deportation of Jews — the Prime Minister`s deeply stupefying plan of "Land For Nothing" — will usher in a new era of worldwide instability. After this deportation, the Palestinian Authority and its many collaborators will turn Gaza into an organized area for increasingly ferocious Islamic attacks against selected targets in Europe and America.

The terrorists who are responsible for the July 7th London bombings are in very close ideological association with the terrorists of the Palestinian Authority, Islamic Jihad and Hamas. Although there are presently many obstacles to calculated and refined operational planning between these different groups, such obstacles are transient and can easily be overcome. Moreover, in spite of widely-presumed and publicly proclaimed distinctions, all of these criminal bands are essentially different wings of the same overarching Jihadi movement.

If you liked London, you will love Gaza. Manifestly delighted that Britain and America have unhesitatingly agreed to turn Israel into a sacrificial lamb, al Qaeda and its various Palestinian cousins fully understand that capitulation has always been the West`s predictable response to Islamic terror. Yes, of course America and England do fight together in Iraq and Afghanistan, but this often heroic effort is strangely coincident with handing over Israel to the very same terrorist enemies. In time, this unforgivable surrender of Israel in pieces will create pieces of terrorist devastation within our own European and American heartlands.

Now London has become Tel-Aviv. Tomorrow it could be New York (again), Washington, Los Angeles or Chicago. For years, British newspapers and TV news journalists have referred euphemistically to Palestinian suicide bombers as "militants." Now, however, when the victims are no longer "just" Jewish women and children in Israel, but English mothers and daughters on London buses and subways, the militants are called "terrorists."

How desperately we human beings always want to ignore what is true. Soon, London, like Tel-Aviv, will return to "normal." Driven by an unstoppable passion for both commerce and self-delusion, UK authorities will take prudent steps to ensure that the hotels stay filled and the air charters keep flying. But London, like Tel-Aviv, will never return to normal until it understands exactly who is responsible for defiling its people. Moreover, for the forseeable future, England, like America and Israel, will also have to prepare for previously unimaginable attacks on civilians involving weaponized pathogens (bioterror) and "dirty bombs" — that is, nuclear materials dispersed over cities by conventional high explosives.

In Pericles` Funeral Speech, as recorded by Thucydides, Athens` wartime leader commented: "What I fear more than the strategies of our enemies is our own mistakes." Understood in terms of our stubborn march to repeated misfortune in America, in Europe and in Israel, Pericles` wisdom points to the mistake of underestimating one`s own national vulnerabilities. For England, for America, for Israel, the only authentic refuge now lies in a sober awareness that we face a distinctly common enemy and that we should not yield to this enemy on one front while combatting him on another.

For us, for now, Paradise has been bolted shut. No American, Englishman or Israeli can force an entrance there. The persisting Sharon/Peres dream of a New Middle East is based on a theoretical impossibility. Nurtured also in London and Washington, this immature dream is a curious counterpoint to Reason, a childlike vision that points determinedly to mass-destruction terrorism on several fronts.

A dying civilization compromises with its disease, sometimes even nurturing the very virus that produces the infection. So it is today with Israel and its supposed allies in England and in the United States. If you don`t like what happened earlier this month in London, you will not like what is about to take place in Gaza. "Disengagement" will widen the ambit of endangerment to embrace us all.

Immediately following the London bombings, leaders of the industrialized world meeting in Scotland, including Messrs. Bush and Blair, announced proudly that $9 billion in "aid" would now be given to the Palestinian Authority over the next three years. This aid will represent little more than a terrorist protection racket operating on a global scale, a cynical surrender to extortion that will only buy our sworn enemies the next generation of terror weapons.

While America and Britain desperately hope to buy off their common foe, here is what a PA-appointed preacher said on the Gaza-based Al Quds radio station on the day after July 7th. Speaking directly of the London bombings, he commented: "We welcome these blessed acts."

[b]Copyright © The Jewish Press. All rights reserved.

LOUIS RENE BERES was educated at Princeton (Ph.D., 1971). He is Strategic and Military Affairs columnist for The Jewish Press. [/b]

[size=18]Hate crimes 'rise after UK bombs'[/size]
[b]
The number of attacks on Asians has risen significantly since the London bombings, police and Muslim groups say.[/b]

The number reported to the Islamic Human Rights Commission - not including those reported to police - has risen more than 13-fold, its chairman said.

The total number of "faith-related" attacks reported across London rose 500% compared with the same period last year, the Muslim Safety Forum says.

This "backlash" is "exactly what those who promote terrorism want" police say.

Association of Chief Police Officers community and counter-terrorism head Assistant Chief Constable Rob Beckley told BBC News the police would protect Asians and Muslims.

The police have gone to great lengths to stress those suspected of involvement in the bombings are not from any single ethnic group.

But the Muslim Safety Forum, which works closely with the police monitoring the total number of incidents reported, blames "prominent people within our society" and the media for saying all British Muslims share something in common with the bombers.

A spokesman told BBC News "bigots" now felt they had the "right to commit these atrocities".

The 7 July bombings were "a single criminal act" and all British Muslims could not be held responsible, he added.

British Muslims would not continue to allow themselves to be victimised and criminalised without a further "backlash" from them, the spokesman told BBC News.

"People are going to fight back."

Islamic Human Rights Commission chairman Massoud Shadjareh is monitoring the number attacks on Asian people not reported to the police.

He told BBC News the commission was "extremely concerned at the escalation of backlash attacks against Muslims since 7/7".

"Normally we get something in the region of between six and seven every week.

"Now in less than two weeks we have had 170 reported to us alone."

The attacks, across the whole of the UK, covered "everything" from verbal abuse and spitting to arson, Mr Shadjareh added.

Nine mosques had been attacked, a garage firebombed, people assaulted in the street, and homes had had their windows broken, he told BBC News.

"It is really very worrying."

Three days after the 7 July bombings, Kamal Butt, 48, from Pakistan was murdered outside a corner shop in Nottingham.

Eight juveniles and a man have been arrested.

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4723339.stm]BBC[/url]

[b]'Two bomb suspects' held in raids [/b]

Two more of the failed London bombing suspects are believed to have been arrested as police carried out a number of armed operations in west London.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4727975.stm

salaam

[b]did anyone watch Question Time last night?[/b]
Zaki Badawi, Shima Chakrabati, Lord Falconer, Shadow Home secretary and Sir Ian Blair were on the panel. Issue of London bombings, Iraq link, shoot to kill, Muslim responsibilty was discussed?

Very intersting debate, Zaki Badawi was disappointing. Ms Chakrabati was very good.

wasalaam

I think Zaki badawi's English lets him down.

Chakrabati seemed to be making speeches rather than answering questions.

salaam

I think chakrabati was making very good points, not speeches. she knew you dont get much time to get your points across, so she made as many valid points as she could in her time allowed. she was cool, calm and collective, spoke good english and came across well unlike Badawi.

Badawi gave poor answer when asked about terror attacks are linked to Iraq or not, he was too quiet, didnt butt in when Islam was atatcked, plus he was too defensive of the police, did not mention anything against the anti terrro laws...so over all he disappointing...and yes his English was rubbish.

wasalaam

I'm watching it again.

Chakrabati still seems to be making speeches. Puts emphasis on certain words, makes dramatic pauses, gives stares...
She makes good points but they could have been made better.

You can't expect Badawi to have said everything.
He made a good point about talking with extremists. He said once you start talking to extremists they relinquish the option to violence and start to think.