Dawud wrote:

For example the anecdote about Imam Shafi'i RA who accidentally saw part of a woman's calf and was unable to memorise (or recall - ironically, I forget which) anything for a while.

To accept this annecdote, do you not also have to accept that God is arbitrary and will punish you for actions or inactions that are out of your control and not your fault?

I thought that in Islam, everything is predermined, or written, so you have no choice in what you do. Everything is the will of Allah?

B wrote:

...so you have no choice in what you do...

You thought wrong.

We have free will and are only accountable for our actions and inactions based on that free will.

You wrote:

Dawud wrote:

For example the anecdote about Imam Shafi'i RA who accidentally saw part of a woman's calf and was unable to memorise (or recall - ironically, I forget which) anything for a while.

To accept this annecdote, do you not also have to accept that God is arbitrary and will punish you for actions or inactions that are out of your control and not your fault?

God is not capricious or arbitrary. That is a tenet of aqeedah, we don't ascribe negative things to God.

There are at least two ways to except that argument. This first is he was Imam Shafi'i RA. His spiritual rank was incredible, he was the teacher of Imam Ahmed RA the great scholar, saint and ascetic. The closeness of a person to Allah determines how critically they are judged, so whilst I might not loose my faculty of memory for seeing a woman's leg, for Imam Shafi'i it was a big thing.

And (to answer you're next question before you ask it), it doesn't matter that it wasn't his fault because at that level God no longer accepts excuses like "it was an accident." When the lover of God becomes His beloved, God does not tolerate other loves/distractions entering the devotee's heart or, in this case, his eyes.

The second reason is more what I was getting at. He wasn't taken to account and punished for accidentally seeing a woman's leg, the act of seeing was like a wound which caused blessing to be bled and lost. God did not punish him, He merely removed something of His Divine protection which He gives to all the creation. If you fall down and cut your knee, you didn't cut your knee because God took you to account for falling down.

Dawud wrote:

The second reason is more what I was getting at. He wasn't taken to account and punished for accidentally seeing a woman's leg, the act of seeing was like a wound which caused blessing to be bled and lost. God did not punish him, He merely removed something of His Divine protection which He gives to all the creation. If you fall down and cut your knee, you didn't cut your knee because God took you to account for falling down.

I read that like three times over. I don't think i understand.

And isn't that (in bold) punishing :S

@ Dawud good answer, but I find it hard to accept the following:

Dawud wrote:

And (to answer you're next question before you ask it), it doesn't matter that it wasn't his fault because at that level God no longer accepts excuses like "it was an accident." When the lover of God becomes His beloved, God does not tolerate other loves/distractions entering the devotee's heart or, in this case, his eyes.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Dawud wrote:

The second reason is more what I was getting at. He wasn't taken to account and punished for accidentally seeing a woman's leg, the act of seeing was like a wound which caused blessing to be bled and lost. God did not punish him, He merely removed something of His Divine protection which He gives to all the creation. If you fall down and cut your knee, you didn't cut your knee because God took you to account for falling down.

I read that like three times over. I don't think i understand.

And isn't that (in bold) punishing :S

He explains it with the second bit that I have bolded.

Dawud wrote:

You wrote:

Dawud wrote:

For example the anecdote about Imam Shafi'i RA who accidentally saw part of a woman's calf and was unable to memorise (or recall - ironically, I forget which) anything for a while.

To accept this annecdote, do you not also have to accept that God is arbitrary and will punish you for actions or inactions that are out of your control and not your fault?

God is not capricious or arbitrary. That is a tenet of aqeedah, we don't ascribe negative things to God.

There are at least two ways to except that argument. This first is he was Imam Shafi'i RA. His spiritual rank was incredible, he was the teacher of Imam Ahmed RA the great scholar, saint and ascetic. The closeness of a person to Allah determines how critically they are judged, so whilst I might not loose my faculty of memory for seeing a woman's leg, for Imam Shafi'i it was a big thing.

And (to answer you're next question before you ask it), it doesn't matter that it wasn't his fault because at that level God no longer accepts excuses like "it was an accident." When the lover of God becomes His beloved, God does not tolerate other loves/distractions entering the devotee's heart or, in this case, his eyes.

The second reason is more what I was getting at. He wasn't taken to account and punished for accidentally seeing a woman's leg, the act of seeing was like a wound which caused blessing to be bled and lost. God did not punish him, He merely removed something of His Divine protection which He gives to all the creation. If you fall down and cut your knee, you didn't cut your knee because God took you to account for falling down.

beautiful answer.