I once had such a heated discussion with a sister about the beard. See this blog post (scroll down the page and see mohamed ali's comments):

http://ummadam.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/how-to-guard-your-husband%E2%80%...

You wrote:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 319 -

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

That he and Abu Talha came in the company of the Prophet and Safiya was accompanying the Prophet, who let her ride behind him on his she-camel. During the journey, the she-camel slipped and both the Prophet and (his) wife fell down. Abu Talha (the sub-narrator thinks that Anas said that Abu Talha jumped from his camel quickly) said, "O Allah's Apostle! May Allah sacrifice me for your sake! Did you get hurt?" The Prophet replied,"No, but take care of the lady." Abu Talha covered his face with his garment and proceeded towards her and covered her with his garment, and she got up. He then set right the condition of their she-camel and both of them (i.e. the Prophet and his wife) rode and proceeded till they approached Medina. The Prophet said, "We are returning with repentance and worshipping and praising our Lord." The Prophet kept on saying this statement till he entered Medina.

And another link on the topic of the male veil topic.

that doesnt exactly prove anything

v bad example

There may be reports of men covering their faces, but I dont think we can use that to show an obligation, or whatsnot to wear one

You wrote:

oh yeah, I should follow my own arguments shouldn't I?

In the last few posts I was not arguing that there was an obligation, rather that (in the past?) men have covered their faces too.

I see. I misunderstood the reason for you posting the examples. Though I think I'll reserve my judgement on it.

s.b.f wrote:

But I see wearing a hijab important. and theres a debate whether they are compulsory or not. Iv always thought wearing ahijab is compulsory.
But a beard, is that compulsory?
and why does having a beard for men seem like such a small issue in comparison to women wearing a hijab? I was just typing out that they shouldnt tell women to wear a hijab if they don't have a beard- but that seems a bit ridiculous.
orthodox churches?

hijaab is compulsory..because a womans hair is her beauty and she has to cover it so it can prevent her from being attracted to the opposite sex..and also covering the body, dressing modestly..is also compulsory for women.

The beard is the sunnah..because our prophet (pbuh) had a beard and sunnah is his way of life and isnt compulsory. The only thing that is compulsory for men is covering the body, from the waist to ankles. To sum this up..both the beard and the hijaab..cannot be weighed equally, the hijaab weighs far more high than the beard..as to being compulsory and important. I will get some reference to lighten this up.

ws x

Angelic wrote:

I think the beard looks really beautiful. It also makes men look more masculine.

I have told my hubby to keep one coz he looks gorgus:P but he doesnt want to and said he will when he feels right to do it, so I have stopped harrasing him.

It is Sunnah so it holds a lot of importance and we should implement the Sunnah where possible.

i agree! x

Beards...

Veils...

Sunnah...

so-called 'compulsion'...

All amounts to the same thing really...
Doing things for the sake of God...
Making sacrifices for Him...

So IMO Beards and veils are not such different topics...
it's all the same as far as i'm concerned.

as for the 'attractiveness' of beards.
If it's in terms of Islam and 'feesabillah' (i think that's the word) or whatever
then really how attractive it is or isn't should be neither here nor there, shouldn't it?

You wrote:

No probs - I ain't a scholar anyway.

:O

Are you SERIOUS?

kat khan wrote:

hijaab is compulsory..because a womans hair is her beauty and she has to cover it so it can prevent her from being attracted to the opposite sex..and also covering the body, dressing modestly..is also compulsory for women.

No it can't. And there's nothing wrong in Islam in being attracted to the opposite sex. It's part of the way Allah (swt) has created us. But what Hijab can do is reduce the chances of people focussing too much on your attractiveness and secually harassing you. Plus it's a sense of identity.

As far as I know, Amal and Admin, Yusuf (as) didn't cover his face, the fruit cutters and Zulaikha saw his face.

Hijab meaning, covering the entire body from head to ankles is fard without a doubt. Some members seem to think hijab refers to covering just the hair it does not. It refers to the entire body except hands and feet. No scholars say it is wajib, apart from modernists, who are trying to bring in a new type of islam, so that muslims will abandon things they don't like in their society. The west does not like muslim women covering up.This can be seen in democratic countries like Turkey, where they have taken it one step further and banned sisters from wearing the basic hijab in universities and other public buildings. Why?, because they see it as a political message. They see it as Islam taking over their democratic values. They want religion to be private. This happened to Christianity and this is the same agenda that democratic countries have for Muslims today.

I don't know if you follow a madhab, but all 4 madhabs regard it as fard. Those calling themselves salafies or of the salaf regard it as fard, shia regard it as fard.

The argument lies over the face veil, a minority view it as fard whilst others view it as wajib or recommended. I'm not sure what I view it as because I heard a good argument the other day which has led me to believe it may be fard. Ibn kathirs tafsir of the Quran on the issue of hijab which is widely respected and studied by sunni students and scholars states it is fard. So although i'm mixed in my head as to its status i wear the face veil with the intention to please Allah, regardless of if i am compelled to or not.

We've covered this topic of the beard many times before. The beard isn't fard, but it is regarded as wajib in the madhabs. As a believer I take the view we should try and act on many sunnahs as possible to increase our love for our nabi (saw), and become closer to Allah (swt). We shouldn't be trying to avoid acting on sunnahs just because they are merely recommended or wajib, and not fard. If i were a brother the most powerful argument for keeping a beard is because our nabi did and he ordered muslim men to do the same. He refused to deal with the persians because they came to him with mustaches, and no beards. It is what makes you a distinct muslim on sight. There are many other benefits which some brothers can expand on i hope.

Hajjar wrote:
"He refused to deal with the persians because they came to him with mustaches, and no beards. It is what makes you a distinct muslim on sight."

I'm not sure if he actually refused to deal with them, do you really think that he would deal with them if they were charging interest, committing shirk and worse things than not keeping a beard?
Plus, Sikhs, Cisteran Christians and Orthodox Jews have beards too, so that alone doesn't make someone even look Muslim.

I'm referring to a Sahih Muslim hadith, and i agree with it. Your're correct he did not refuse to deal with them, that was my mistake, and i should be more careful before typing away my thoughts forgive me. But he did not wish to look upon them, he was very displeased. In our prophet's time there were ppl of other faiths around likewise who kept beards, yet he still made this comment about the Persians. So i think it's just as relevant in these times as it was then.

I think most ppl can tell the difference between ppl of other faiths who keep beards and muslims. The beard is just part of the appearance, there are other articles of clothing which make other faiths and muslims distinct from one another.

Anyway i'm not making an entire argument for keeping the beard based on the Persians alone. My argument was it is from the sunnah, and the more sunnahs we adhere to the better. The Sahabah are great role models for us likewise and most of them had beards, and even those who could not grow much hair still retained whatever little facial hair they did have, in their zeal and love to do as our prophet did.

For those who follow madhabs the evidence speaks volumes, refer to it please.

I think beards are equivalent to the headscarf. For many reasons.

I do see the beard as the male’s hijab. The only difference is really the fardh ruling, which I know is important, but the concept I feel is the same for both.

There is soooo much focus on the headscarf, and quite a bit by brothers too... which I do find a little wierd/contradictory if the guy himself doesn’t have a beard...

I dislike it when girls are looked down upon because they don’t wear the headscarf. Inshallah one day they will. And re. a guy not having a beard, well they don’t really seem to be frowned upon in the same way and that is good, I wouldn’t ever think less of a guy for not having a beard. But I do always think ‘mashallah’ if I see a young, especially unmarried, guy with a beard. And I think the same about a girl wearing the headscarf. Mostly, both are very much conscious decisions and there is something to be admired in that I think.

I think the issues concerning both the headscarf and the beard are the same. It can be a huge deal for some and be like a real personal struggle... and not always to do with vanity. It is a very outward statement of ones faith and that can have its own issues. Some brothers and sisters find it really easy and others not so. I do often feel that some guys can sometimes dismiss any reservations/difficulties a girl might have about wearing the headscarf, but I bet more brothers with a beard would be able to relate to those issues.

Imaani wrote:

I do always think ‘mashallah’ if I see a young, especially unmarried, guy with a beard.

:shock: !

you heard the woman

But you don't have to wear hijab in front of your husband, and I doubt you can shave your beard while your at home, but regrow it when you go out. It'd be awesome if you could! Unless you use a fake beard, of course.

The Lamp wrote:

But you don't have to wear hijab in front of your husband, and I doubt you can shave your beard while your at home, but regrow it when you go out. It'd be awesome if you could! Unless you use a fake beard, of course.

LOL

Ya'qub wrote:

Imaani wrote:

I do always think ‘mashallah’ if I see a young, especially unmarried, guy with a beard.

:shock: !

Noor wrote:

you heard the woman

:shock: Now that is soooooooooooooooo not what I meant. And you know that! I can't believe how you've just just twisted that. :evil: :shock:

And I said it about a girl too.

I meant as in if it is for vanity reasons that a person hesitates to wear the headscarf or grow a beard then it is, or should be, much easier to do when married, once someone is secure and content in a relationship for example. Hence it is nice when an unmarried girl decides to wear the headscarf or an unmarried guy has a beard. (I know what I mean anyway!)

yeah sure, we believe you...