Gilani wrote:

.The perversion of the Sodom / the nation of Lout is distortion of Human Nature.

How can it be a 'distortion of human nature' if that's how human's feel?

You are talking out you're ass, which is almost as bad as putting things up it!

How you feel and "human nature" may not always be the same thing.

Some people really really do like crystal meth. Horrible thing that - the way it deforms (some of?) the users is horrid.

Just because people like something does not make it right. All forms of zinaa are haraam and should be avoided as much as possible. The person should also understand that they are wrong (and that bit is important - making excuses, allowing haraam and then going "but it should not be haraam" or something can lead to dangerous territory when it comes to faith). Repenting for the sins is also a good thing - repent and pray that you do not succumb to them again (even if you really really want to).

It's like the bankers going "but the only way to get growth etc is to allow us to do what we were doing that made the global economy almost collapse!"

You wrote:

How you feel and "human nature" may not always be the same thing.

Some people really really do like crystal meth. Horrible thing that - the way it deforms (some of?) the users is horrid.

Just because people like something does not make it right. All forms of zinaa are haraam and should be avoided as much as possible. The person should also understand that they are wrong (and that bit is important - making excuses, allowing haraam and then going "but it should not be haraam" or something can lead to dangerous territory when it comes to faith). Repenting for the sins is also a good thing - repent and pray that you do not succumb to them again (even if you really really want to).

Craving sex IS very obviously part of human nature, though. There is just halal ways to go about it as well as (many) haraam ways.

And I've never done crystal meth, but I guess the need for dopamine and serotonin is part of human nature, and there are halaal ways for that to be released in our brains, as well as haraam ways.

But if we desire something, it's because there is a (real or illusionary) need for it in our bodies.

Sinning is part of human nature too.

oh, *that* human nature! I always get confused at the meanings of words. or make my own up.

*Live and let live.... it's none of my business.
*I have homosexual friends....i don't think treat them any differently

Salaams. Before I give you all my opinion just wanna say hello, nice site I'm new here. Nice to meet you all.

Alright so.

Personally: homosexuality doesn't bother me. I don't mind that people are gay, I have friends that have come out recently and I treat them no differently. I personally cannot and do not see it as a source of discomfort unless they advance on me, in which case I would just decline or remove myself from the situation without causing offense to their preference. I think of it like "rejecting" or declining the advances of any woman (.. or man).

I do believe that "true" homosexuality is genetic and from birth. Most scientific research into this matter points to the confirmation of genetic differences from birth between those who are born(or later grow up to be) homosexual or straight. These people, who through no "fault" or choice of their own prefer the same sex. I believe that God made them this way and of course God is aware of his creation. As Muslims we believe in no original sin. So how could this person be born with one?

This also then raises the question of whether this person is then given a "concession" of sorts, whether he or she can live their life without feeling guilt or shame or wrongdoing for committing homosexual acts. My opinion is that: God has given them a trial and hardship from birth. Reward is given to those who cope or handle it appropriately, and punishment or no reward otherwise. Will this person stray from Islam because of it's stance on homosexuality? Will this person seek help from God? all these questions come into play (as a matter of analysis and thought, not judgment).

At that - all human being have sexual desires and the need to fulfill them. Should this "true" homosexual ever in their life time sleep and have relations with those of the same sex then I find it hard coming to terms with the fact that God will punish them for the way he made them, in the same fires that murderers and thieves and rapists etc. will be punished in. Perhaps they are also a test to the rest of the Muslim community - a test of acceptance, tolerance, education, mercy etc.

As for those who aren't born homosexual but chose to be later in life - either through cultural implications, the wanting to be different or "just because", then I believe this is wrong. At the same time, as with those that are born gay, I don't think it is our place as people to vilify them or take punishment or judgment into our own hands. That's not our right.

Then again... Allah guides and misguides whom he will. Maybe both scenarios are wrong. Maybe one is "right", one is wrong. I don't know. That's just my opinion and I hope in future God enlightens me :).

your thoughts?

CheapZen wrote:

I do believe that "true" homosexuality is genetic and from birth. Most scientific research into this matter points to the confirmation of genetic differences from birth between those who are born(or later grow up to be) homosexual or straight. These people, who through no "fault" or choice of their own prefer the same sex. I believe that God made them this way and of course God is aware of his creation. As Muslims we believe in no original sin. So how could this person be born with one?

There was one study which suggested this - future studies that were done to confirm the research afaik did not manage to come to the same conclusions.

If it was genetic, people would not be as offended in calling it a disease or an ailment.

Also, it is not what you want to do or feel that is the big thing, but what you believe and what you do.

You wrote:

There was one study which suggested this - future studies that were done to confirm the research afaik did not manage to come to the same conclusions.

If it was genetic, people would not be as offended in calling it a disease or an ailment.

Also, it is not what you want to do or feel that is the big thing, but what you believe and what you do.

I think there was definitely more than one study that leaned towards confirming the genetic hypothesis. I could be wrong.

Would or would not be as offended in calling it a disease or an ailment? Because if I was gay I'd be pretty damn offended by that lol.

I'd have to agree with you on your last statement. Still, it doesn't make it any easier or harder having to suppress your feelings and desires if you were gay.

CheapZen wrote:

Would or would not be as offended in calling it a disease or an ailment? Because if I was gay I'd be pretty damn offended by that lol.

why?

See, I never get this. Why would it be offensive? it would give them what others would consider a legitimate reason, so why be offended?

Selamz to everyone.. am also new on here. I have been intrigued by one of the magazines I have recently read which interested me to join this site and read to fid out more...

Reading the above comment's on homosexuality, keeping it a short response…
My personal opinion is that how is it proven to be that you are born with it generically? Many things are proven by scientist such as humans form from monkeys and much much more!! Allah made man and women of his choice and in the form of his choice. He has blessed many of us with organs and the ability in order to reproduce…Surely he did not make man for man and women for women. It cannot and does not make sense!!

Society is coming to terms with this formality because people within our society are being taught to come to terms with this, through TV (e.g. eastenders! internet, education etc. For instance, on my current degree there was a debate on homosexuals, Where I voiced my views and said that I don’t decline friendship with any lesbian, gay or bisexual but I am a Muslim and my religion is Islam. And within my religion it is our belief, that homosexuality is wrong and is forbidden by god. This belief also exists in Christianity.

Therefore, children, adults and those who are none the wiser of these actions need to be aware of what is happening. They need to be taught that it is wrong and forbidden in Islam and no, we cannot come to terms with this under any circumstances! But at the same time they need to be taught that in today’s day and age people within our society weather they be famous or ordinary people, we accept their choice and treat them equally and no different to any other human. At the end of it all, we all still creations of the all mighty Allah, so it is not in our nature as Muslims to cause any one any kind of discomfort.

In conclusion of my thoughts, if you come across a Muslim who is experiencing this act of sin, then it becomes our duty as Muslims to guide this brother or sister to the right path by assisting them through preaching Islam. If one cannot do this alone then ask others, surely you will not be rejected for advice or help. Most of all, repent to Allah and make du’aa as he is the most forgiving and merciful.

Please share your thoughts…

You wrote:

why?

See, I never get this. Why would it be offensive? it would give them what others would consider a legitimate reason, so why be offended?

Legitimate as it may be I feel it could be used derogatorily. Disease, sickness and the connotations that come with them etc.
It's not a disease or sickness or ailment as much as it is a difference or in genetic build.

Zainab_buma wrote:

Selamz to everyone.. am also new on here. I have been intrigued by one of the magazines I have recently read which interested me to join this site and read to fid out more...

Reading the above comment's on homosexuality, keeping it a short response…
My personal opinion is that how is it proven to be that you are born with it generically? Many things are proven by scientist such as humans form from monkeys and much much more!! Allah made man and women of his choice and in the form of his choice. He has blessed many of us with organs and the ability in order to reproduce…Surely he did not make man for man and women for women. It cannot and does not make sense!!

Society is coming to terms with this formality because people within our society are being taught to come to terms with this, through TV (e.g. eastenders! internet, education etc. For instance, on my current degree there was a debate on homosexuals, Where I voiced my views and said that I don’t decline friendship with any lesbian, gay or bisexual but I am a Muslim and my religion is Islam. And within my religion it is our belief, that homosexuality is wrong and is forbidden by god. This belief also exists in Christianity.

Therefore, children, adults and those who are none the wiser of these actions need to be aware of what is happening. They need to be taught that it is wrong and forbidden in Islam and no, we cannot come to terms with this under any circumstances! But at the same time they need to be taught that in today’s day and age people within our society weather they be famous or ordinary people, we accept their choice and treat them equally and no different to any other human. At the end of it all, we all still creations of the all mighty Allah, so it is not in our nature as Muslims to cause any one any kind of discomfort.

In conclusion of my thoughts, if you come across a Muslim who is experiencing this act of sin, then it becomes our duty as Muslims to guide this brother or sister to the right path by assisting them through preaching Islam. If one cannot do this alone then ask others, surely you will not be rejected for advice or help. Most of all, repent to Allah and make du’aa as he is the most forgiving and merciful.

Please share your thoughts…

Wasalaam Zainab.

First of all, lets get facts straight: Science doesn't say that people come directly from monkeys. It's a common misconception. I'm not going into Darwinian or evolutionary debate or discussion because it's off topic. Just clearing things up.
I'm one of those people that believe that science complements religion. The Qur'an itself is full of miraculous scientific facts pertaining to geology, embryology, astronomy and so forth that can still be backed up and proven today. Why should any other legitimate science, if proven to be correct at the time, not be given some sort of benefit of doubt if science itself has been used to support and back up Qur'anic claims?
Sure if you look at it from an zoological point of view, being gay or lesbian doesn't have any place in the animal world. There is just no sense or point to it. It doesn't fill a biological purpose. But we can't only view things in that light because it would assume then that God only made us in order to multiply and be "animals" per se.

Like I said, in my opinion true homosexuality is likely a difference or a variation or a mutation or an altering in the genetic makeup. There are those who chose to be gay through cultural impacts or otherwise, but thats a whole new discussion altogether.

Just my thoughts. I respect, admire and agree with your point of view at large. We should still treat them equally, with respect and kindness.

Do you think Islam and other major religions focus a lot on how to help teenagers/ or young adults from having boyfriends/girlfriends and how marriage is a solution....but not enough on what the solution is to help homosexual Muslims? The temptation/desire they have is the same as a heterosexual person. But marriage isn't a solution.

Why isn't it a solution? They may also want something else, but well, they can't (legally/islamically) have it, but atleast part of the system is mechanical in nature.

You wrote:

Why isn't it a solution? They may also want something else, but well, they can't (legally/islamically) have it, but atleast part of the system is mechanical in nature.

What is marriage a solution to them for exactly and for who?

Just because someone wants something, it does not make it right - sometimes people even want to kill.

What marriage allows is for the curtailment of their sexual urges. It may not eliminate them, or remove their desires, but it would allow for control.

"HELP" children?

That implies it's like a disease, something very similar to cancer...

"HELP" women?

That implies they are like a disease, something very similar to cancer...

"HELP" the poor?

That implies they are like a disease, something very similar to cancer...

"HELP" students?

That implies they are like a disease, something very similar to cancer...

I was just making a point in a pig headed way.

For me "wrong in religious terms" is the same thing as "wrong".

Where I draw the line is people have a right to fail, to do wrong things and as long as they do not step on other's toes, its their choice.

If they want help, help them. If they don't, then don't.

But that is just me and I can fathom scenarios (in general and unlinked to homosexuality) where people who need help would be too stubborn to ask for it and the question then becomes do you let them flounder?

I would.

You wrote:

I was just making a point in a pig headed way.

For me "wrong in religious terms" is the same thing as "wrong".

Where I draw the line is people have a right to fail, to do wrong things and as long as they do not step on other's toes, its their choice.

If they want help, help them. If they don't, then don't.

But that is just me and I can fathom scenarios (in general and unlinked to homosexuality) where people who need help would be too stubborn to ask for it and the question then becomes do you let them flounder?

I would.

It's funny you're distinguishing personal sin from crime. Previously I assumed since I'm Jewish and have no example of Jewish theocracy to draw on, I'm naturally drawn to considering the public sphere - for all its good and bad influence on piety - highly distinct from matters of faith; such that religious authorities are advisory or in any case not supreme; the relationship with God defined in deeds and thoughts rather than attendance and compliance or even liturgical prayer; and all aspects of tradition have a purpose and represent a truthful artefact, but not necessarily the truth. My perspective may be radical (in Orthodox Jewish circles) but can still be posited within the mainstream with the caveat that it possibly isn't for everyone. Back in Biblical times I don't know how rigorously homosexuality was punished, but the new world is honestly uncertain and compassionate in these matters and I prefer that.

Joie de Vivre wrote:

It's funny you're distinguishing personal sin from crime. Previously I assumed since I'm Jewish and have no example of Jewish theocracy to draw on, I'm naturally drawn to considering the public sphere - for all its good and bad influence on piety - highly distinct from matters of faith; such that religious authorities are advisory or in any case not supreme; the relationship with God defined in deeds and thoughts rather than attendance and compliance or even liturgical prayer; and all aspects of tradition have a purpose and represent a truthful artefact, but not necessarily the truth. My perspective may be radical (in Orthodox Jewish circles) but can still be posited within the mainstream with the caveat that it possibly isn't for everyone. Back in Biblical times I don't know how rigorously homosexuality was punished, but the new world is honestly uncertain and compassionate in these matters and I prefer that.

?:S

Just read the first sentence and the last one. the rest is thought process and explaining how he thinks.

Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani said all gays in Iraq should be killed in worst possible ways. They are fleeing Iraq towards the Great Satan. Kafirs. Lanat on gays.

Can i just ask a question?

i dont know if this is relevant, or just plain impertinent as you guys are having a very intellectual conversation.

Are there gay animals?

You wrote:

I

For me "wrong in religious terms" is the same thing as "wrong".

And it should be like that - right?

And you do think about the whys of it and what not?

Does it help you live a less sinful life?

Sumaiya wrote:

Are there gay animals?

s.b.f wrote:

You wrote:

For me "wrong in religious terms" is the same thing as "wrong".

And it should be like that - right?

I think that should be aimed for, but it also has its risks such as delusions of granduer, where because you think your opinion aligns with Islam, you can easily not look for the required evidence and make mistakes... so its a to and fro thing.

s.b.f wrote:

And you do think about the whys of it and what not?

Does it help you live a less sinful life?

Maybe. Probably not - but what it atleast should mean is that when I do wrong, I am aware that it is wrong.

unless actual gay people come and fight their corner - this topic is done to death. we all know Islam condemns it,hell muslim gays themselves wouldnt argue with that, so whats the use going on about it. its a terrible terrible affliction for those who are caught in it and beating on their head about the abvious is not serving a purpose. offer some advice and help or desist from beating them UP, or worse still treating the issue like a joke.

Sumaiya wrote:

Are there gay animals?

They don't see the point in such stuff to be honest. In fact, reproduction is such a thing in their culture that mating among siblings is a common thing...

(or did I just make that up?)

Sumaiya wrote:

Are there gay animals?

Gay Penguins

assalamu alaikum,

someone here said that they think homosexuality is genetic, well if that individual is a muslim, that would go against Islamic teachings. Allah tells us He (Swt) made men and women as companions for each other, not men for men and women for women. The primary goal of marriage amongst other things is reproduction, so why would God mould humans to be gay, this would go against His primary purpose?? Also why would God make humans gay, then punish them for it? It does not make any sense at all.

I don't agree with homosexuality
1-because I claim to be a muslim, so I agree with the teachings of the Quran it is a sin
2-I believe it is unnatural. It goes against our biology. There is no way two ppl of the same gender can have a child not without some sort of medical intervention.

Apart from those points i'd like to think i would not treat a gay person differently if i were to meet one. But i don't agree with this idea that as long as they're not effecting me i dont care. It is a fact they can and do effect other ppl, just like the friends we choose effect our behaviour and moral codes. In islam we're not meant to have such a carefree attitude towards homosexuals especially if it is known they are drawing ppl towards the same sin. It's not a minor sin, its regarded as an abomination if acted upon.All too often muslims are guilty of hiding this fact, it's like they're ashamed to admit it.

Hajjar wrote:

I don't agree with homosexuality
1-because I claim to be a muslim, so I agree with the teachings of the Quran it is a sin

I like that reason.