Your views arent important to me or whether you accept mine but I had noticed that my method of writing was making u lot attack me. And AbdusSalam goes same thing happened with him.

From what I have learnt I need to use certain words in place of other words, basically need to choose language which fits in with what you lot use as opposed to using the formal language we use at madrassah.

I think I now know how to tackle your viewpoints.

You see my references to deviation, perversion, imitation of non-believers etc put u ppl off? right?

so i am just gonna have to use words which u find less offensive but still convey my meanings truthfully if less passionately.

wise man

Calling any one a deviant, pervert, imitator etc will give a bad impression!

There are better words (as you have realised) where you can convey your full view without offending others.

Having a sense of humour also helps alot, as some of the insults used here are not really insults.

yes ok i can c that calling ppl deviant puts them on the guard and defnsive or makes them more aggressive to my suggestions.

but dont others have a right to know that some ideas are pure deviation, or imitation or perversion. What should a person do if he sits and sees blatant bad things going on, i think he should make it clear in no uncertain terms that what is going on is perversion or deviation but ppl here dont want to hear that?

im confused.

NB AbdusSalam has a really good sense of humour. He cracks me up when chatting about other groups but I suppose you would find those jokes unpleasant so i wont quote any.

attackin aint gona help, makes people not wanan listen

jus say your point nicely and back it up. debate, not argue nor attack

You point it out in a manner that is acceptable to the audience.

If it makes the person go all defensive, you have failed.

If you already know the person differs with your view, and has his/her reasons, it may be better to avoid the discussion.

k

but whats the point in that?

when we have debates at mosque; its all set up to make for a good munaazarah. I gues i come here trying to practice my lessons on the ppl here but that is rong.

My lessons are for mosque not this forum. Perhaps i can learn ur ppls version of munaazarah called discussion.

There is a time for debating. Then there are times for discussing. We generally discuss here, as we cannot say we know it all. We learn a we go along.

Debates normally occur between two people who have a solid predetermined mindset, and will not change their mind. It may be good for the audience, as they can either be entertained, or actually make their mind up.

Here we discuss.

regarding my 10 points I can see you wont agree with some of them but I strongly urge you to consider things like dententions and punishments such as litter-duty as alternatives to beatings cos here kids are soo bad that they start challenging the teachers, detention/litter duty are good alternatives.

And practical things like cleaning up local area by going around picking up litter for as little as 10 minutes makes HUGE difference, shows non-muslims and general public that we are clean ppl not dirty fly tippers.

I agree with you there.

Beatings do not accomplish much.

true.....but all kids need a lil disciplin now and then

suing and reporting Imaams could backfire

Kids in the mosques are dodgy!!

I remember from my days at mosque.....i used to think a samosa was a good thing, until i learnt it meant a slap!! never asked for extra mirch after that day :shock:

Yeah, I think that you shouldn't mention the hitting part. It much more better giving them a solution. Because if you looking after 30 kids, then you going to lose control. At time imaam are glamorised babysitters. What would be best is too restrict the classes to 15 or something maybe even less, the way to do this is by hiring the brightest kid in the classes who maybe doing hifz and let him control a couple of kids while at the same time he learning from the imaam. You won't need to pay him much and it make the imaam job easier and the kids will get more one to one learning. Also mixing up what they study is good as well, make sure the mosque has a proper structure so mosque isn't the same boring routine for the kids.

"yuit" wrote:

the way to do this is by hiring the brightest kid in the classes who maybe doing hifz and let him control a couple of kids while at the same time he learning from the imaam. You won't need to pay him much and it make the imaam job easier and the kids will get more one to one learning. .

MashaALLAH good idea yuit. Some mosques already do that, its part of the training for the older students to get them ready for imamat.

"yuit" wrote:

Yeah, I think that you shouldn't mention the hitting part. It much more better giving them a solution. Because if you looking after 30 kids, then you going to lose control. At time imaam are glamorised babysitters. What would be best is too restrict the classes to 15 or something maybe even less, the way to do this is by hiring the brightest kid in the classes who maybe doing hifz and let him control a couple of kids while at the same time he learning from the imaam. You won't need to pay him much and it make the imaam job easier and the kids will get more one to one learning. Also mixing up what they study is good as well, make sure the mosque has a proper structure so mosque isn't the same boring routine for the kids.

yeh thats a good idea, i rember bak ages ago when i was learnin the Quran they used to teach us the basics of islam on the friday and the other 4 days we used to learn the Quran, use to change the routine a bit...i rember our molvi (bit of a weird one) he used to listen to six ppl readin the Quran at one time :shock: talk bout skivin and doin somethin totally wrong!!

As for beatin it is a no-no, kids nowadays dont take well to the harsh beatin approach it just makes them move further away from islam and reduces the respect they have for their teachers.

times have changed........you cant hit em and expect them to learn, especially if theyre teenagers or older

"angel" wrote:

As for beatin it is a no-no, kids nowadays dont take well to the harsh beatin approach it just makes them move further away from islam and reduces the respect they have for their teachers.

I agree that this is the condition with MOST kids today but there are still some students who take even their beatings with joy. I remember when I used to get hit by my Ustadji when I was doing hifz and even now I feel the ecstasy of his striking me because he did it to rememdy me and for my betterment. But in general the children have become rebels

"Medievalist" wrote:

"angel" wrote:

As for beatin it is a no-no, kids nowadays dont take well to the harsh beatin approach it just makes them move further away from islam and reduces the respect they have for their teachers.

I agree that this is the condition with MOST kids today but there are still some students who take even their beatings with joy. I remember when I used to get hit by my Ustadji when I was doing hifz and even now I feel the ecstasy of his striking me because he did it to rememdy me and for my betterment. But in general the children have become rebels

I think your an exception, who the hell takes joy in getin beatin up? I dont see the betterment in hittin kids and leavin bruises...kids may have become rebels but the fact is beatin sum1 aint a good approach.

Yeah medeival you are one wierd bloke if you enjoy getting beaten up. Though I understand the aspect of disclipine, but I think u getting too carried away :roll:

LOL

some kids become emotional scarred for life

others hold bitter feelings towards the mosque Imam for ages

some get over it

and others get their kicks outta getting beats

you get all sorts

At the time I did not exactly like it but I knew that it was for my own good. Now if I have any standing it is because of my Ustads. The tap of Ustadjis stick on my leg whilst reading dawr and sabaq helped in my concentration and made me learn my lessons well. Alhamdulillah My heart makes dua for my Ustads because they did it for my betterment, not to take out their anger but rather with pure intentions.

My brother was beaten up in the Mosque a few years ago…

Till this day he can not be convinced to return. He only attends Mosque for his prayers…he’s given up on Arabic.

I surprise how soft some people are, I was talking to someone a little while ago and he left mosque because he got a slap. I used to regularly get beaten up by the imaam from the age of 6-13, it didn't really affect me, just use to have to take it, they used to have a cane stick to hit us with as well. But I do agree it not a good method too used when teaching people.

the guys round my brothers age aint soft

just very arrogant with big ego's :roll:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

the guys round my brothers age aint soft

just very arrogant with big ego's :roll:

And what has that got to do with this topic :roll:

"yuit" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

the guys round my brothers age aint soft

just very arrogant with big ego's :roll:

And what has that got to do with this topic :roll:

it has everything to do with this topic :roll:

SOME mosque Imams beat kids

SOME agree with this SOME dont

SOME cant take beats

SOME go into ecstasy when they get beats

SOME have massive ego's so they never return to the mosque

how did i get off the topic?

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"yuit" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

the guys round my brothers age aint soft

just very arrogant with big ego's :roll:

[snip]

And what has that got to do with this topic :roll:

it has everything to do with this topic :roll:

SOME mosque Imams beat kids

SOME agree with this SOME dont

SOME cant take beats

SOME go into ecstasy when they get beats

SOME have massive ego's so they never return to the mosque

how did i get off the topic?

Ok I let u off this time :roll:

I am glad to be from SOME people. Lol

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