At Juma today we were told that the committee is considering installing a new radiocast system in the mosque. It would require an amplifier and handsets which individual households in the local area would purchase.

The amplifier would allow the azan, talks, Friday khutba from the local mosque etc to be broadcast and received via the handsets in the immediate area.

We were told that several other mosques around the country already have this. Has anyone heard of such a system?

We were told that this was primarily for our mothers and sisters. Is this a ploy to keep women away from the mosques?

Is it a good idea? What could be the implications?

ive already heard of them and seen pictures somewhere. how can that be a bad idea!

its really good....reminds you of prayer time where you would normally 4get, and allows for the Azaan to be played 5 times a day to everyones house.

jus wish our mosque would follow suit.... :roll:

Personally i think its a little too extravagant waste of money.

Pretty much every house nowadays has SkyDigital or atleast own a Radio where they can hear the Azaan or even watch it on SkyDigital.

I recon it will just make people lazy, where instead they should come to the mosque. Especially women, coz i can garuntee that theres always alot more men at mosque then there are women and this may only prove to reduce the numbers.

"irfghan" wrote:

Is it a good idea? What could be the implications?

my local mosque has it

my next door neighbour brought the amplifier

her and mum reg get together and listen to the khutbah's/speeches

its a good idea-cos in many cases women cant attend mosques cos of kids

we have one of these amplifiers in our house. there are very good because they encourage you to read salah....if your doing something else like watching TV or something and you hear the azaan, it reminds you of the time and sometimes if your feeling lazy it makes you feel guilty and so you read your salah...very good indeed.
We definitely need muslim counsellors in our community, poeple who would be able to help young and older poeple with thier personal problems i,e giving them islamic advice and support.

The things that I think that the mosque require are.

A scholarship program, so the brightest student can go and study (could be abroad) to be imaam and then come back and serve the community.

Mosque outing, at time the mosque environment is rigid and I know I used to be scared to go to the mosque, so outing to regent park mosque or other islamic places is a good idea.

Fun days for the mosque, a chance for the mosque to raise money and for people to enjoy themselves, this can include making sport tourament and other things.

Every mosque should have informal circles organised for at least once a week.

Classes for the older community, so they can come and learn about the islam as well.

At least try to have one english speaking imaam in the mosque, if that too hard at least the community.

Open days for non muslims.

A report cards for the kids that study and at least meet the parent of the student once in a year.

i also think badly organised mosques should be named and shamed

i nominate one Mosque in my town-the one that dont allow women access

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

salaam

name and shame does not work

wasalaam

so does Mr Ed have any other bright ideas?

do u suggest that we pat them Imam's on the back and tell them that they're doing a great job?

dont be so over critical over Imam's. they dont hav an easy job and often work under pressure. most Imam's are ok...just a minority that need sorting out.

1. Library

2. Discourage wome

3. All power in the hands of the Imam

4. Hifz and Alim classes for mature people aswell as for the youth

5. Parents' Evening

6. Report card recording students absences and behaviour and how he is proceeding in classes.

7. Detention system/ cleaning duties for students; particularly as a form of punishment. Advantage is that children dont get beat up unjustly, but still lose things they value - time!!

8. Litter-picking in area AROUND the mosque - show the public that muslims support cleanliness.

9. Radio transmitters for ladies so they can hear whats going on in the mosque.

10. NO COMMITTEES/ NO ELECTIONS/ NO CHALLENGE TO THE IMAM.

MAJOR CONDITION:

Make sure you get a good imam, cos if he is good and speaks english and knows what is going on then no need for committees or boards or anything else.

The idea of pool tables and gyms and stuff is a bit dumb cos xians do same thing to attract their ppl to church - eg showing footie, having dance parties etc. In this case ppl come with rong intention and to be honest such schemes are deviancy.

A better idea however is have the mosque near to or even in local leisure centre. Or build a mosque and leisure centre. In this case have pools tables, gym, bookreading sessions as much as you like in a building next to the mosque and then when namaz time comes close the leisure centre for 20-30 mins so ppl come into masjid inshaALLAH. Result is that mosques sanctity is preserved, communtiy benefits from healthy atmosphere.

win win win all round!

Great ideas. Shame about the discouraging women bit.

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

i totally disagree with:
[b]2. Discourage women[/b]
ARE THEY NOT MUSLIM? DO THEY NOT NEED TO ATTEND THE MOSQUE? DO THEY NOT NEED TO LEARN THE DEEN? DO THEY NOT NEED TO HAVE THEIR OWN HALL, SISTERS ACTIVITIES. YOUR STATEMENT IS SHOCKING!!!!!

[b]3. All power in the hands of the Imam[/b]
NO DICTATORSHIP IN THE MOSQUE PLEASE. THIS WAY IMAM IS NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYONE. HE WILL THEN DO WHAT HE WISHES AND WILL GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. IMAM IS EMPLOYEE AND GETS PAID FOR HIS JOB, HE DOES NOT OWN THE MOSQUE. MOSQUE BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE. IT IS TEH HOUSE OF ALLAH, NOT HOUSE OF THE IMAM.

[b]9. Radio transmitters for ladies so they can hear whats going on in the mosque.[/b]
IF YOU LET THE SISTERS IN THE MOSQUE YOU WOULDNT NEED TRANSMITTERS. TRANSMITTERS ARE FOR EVERYONE WHO CANT ATTEND FOR CERTAIN REASONS, NOT JUST FOR SISTERS BECAUSE YOU DONT THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE MOSQUE....THEN WE SAY ISLAM GIVES WOMEN SO MANY RIGHTS!!!!!

[b]
10. NO COMMITTEES/ NO ELECTIONS/ NO CHALLENGE TO THE IMAM.[/b]
AGAIN...A SHOCKING STATEMENT. NO SHURA? NO DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES?NO ONE HAS A SAY WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MOSQUE? JUST LEAVE IT ALL TO ONE MAN....I DONT THINK SO!

You basically have two objections:

1. the status of women in the mosque
2. the precise role of the imam.

I will address to the best of my ability. Yes some women are also muslim. And the deen caters for them by asking nay commanding them to remain quietly at home. Sorry if ppl cant take it, but thats the truth of the matter. The most pious woman is one who sits quietly at home, without causing trouble to herself or her family or society in general. Alhamdulillah Islam does given women the rights that they deserve. It doesnt mean women have same rights as men cos in loads of things womens rights are apparently, on the surface of things, less. eg Inheritance, bearing witness, leading prayers, menstruation. On the superficial level the man is superior but if you look in ALL cases women have rights which fit with their nature, men have rights which fit with their nature. In this light it is Islams uniqueness that we give women the right to stay at home. No other religion or way of life has the same concept of nature of women as Islam teaches. True in some cultures women are the normal homedwellers but if we look Islams stance of women clinging most strongly to the home is unique in the history. So actually it is womens right to sit at home and not be disturbed by pervert men who want to see them strutting the streets.

2. The role of the imam in my view is that he is the leader. Yes shura can take place but shura does not in anyway mean that the person in charge has to go along with the majority decision. If we look shura is that reliable responsible persons give advice to the leader and discuss issues with him. At the end of the day ALL the decision making lies on the leader.

In my view the imam is not the employee of these thick and arrogant mosque committees. Nor is the imam to be degraded with such statements. The imam is the leader and any self-respecting imam would not swerve from serving the best interests of the community just cos his ''employeers'' are gonna take away his income. The imam is the leader; so that is why i said that it must be ensured that the imam is upright and a true scholar not some phoney. Loads of people graduate from Madrassah and Darul Uloom; but that doesnt mean you an ALIM. Finding a straight and upright alim sorts evrything else out.

What is this democracy? What are these democratic principles? Oh again I understand your stance Editor. Having grown up in Britain as I presume you have I can only take it that the concept of democracy and all its glory has polluted your mind.

Hadrat Abu Bakr - unelected. Hadrat Umar pledged allegiance to Him and the rest followed, no1 voted or anything similar. Hadrat Abu Bakr was advised by his ''shura'' not to attack ALL the rebel and renegade tribes who became apostate after Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam left this world , He was advised not to attack Rum by his shura. He listened but decided to discard all their advice and went ahead with his own decision. No obligation to listen to others. Obligation is on the followers to fulfill their pledge to the leader and follow him.

Hadrat Umar - unelected.

Hadrat Uthman - unelected.

Hadrat Ali - unelected.

None of the above illustrious personalities were elected leaders. True with some of them shuras were set up to decide who would succeed the present leader but that is by no way a democratic system.

Basically editor, sir you have not got a leg to stand on! If you dont understand, as I am pretty sure you wont, then I think you should think long and hard about how much of British concepts you have taken on board into your mind. Look Islam offers a whole different approach to the world. Its not like any other system. Sooner we get that, the better!!

Salaam

Muslim women are given the right to stay at home if they wish.

However, they are NOT forbidden from praying in the Mosque if they wish either.

If Islam has given women the right to pray in the Mosque if she wishes….who are you state otherwise?

The women in our time need to attend Mosques in order to acquire Islamic knowledge.

Wasalaam

i said discourage, not forbid.

Just as Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam discouraged but did not forbid. So I take same stance and I dont apologise for it.

"Medievalist" wrote:

Hadrat Umar - unelected.

Hadrat Uthman - unelected.

Hadrat Ali - unelected.

I disagree.

1. Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) - elected.
2. Hadhrat Umar (ra) - Nominated
3. Hadhrat Uthman (ra) - elected from nominated council, by nominees in the council
4. Hadhrat Ali (ra) - Elected by survivors from same council.

There is no one way to choose a leader. There are many different ways.

"Admin" wrote:

I disagree.

1. Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) - elected.
2. Hadhrat Umar (ra) - Nominated
3. Hadhrat Uthman (ra) - elected from nominated council, by nominees in the council
4. Hadhrat Ali (ra) - Elected by survivors from same council.

There is no one way to choose a leader. There are many different ways.

This is just a word play.

Hadrat Abu Bakr radhiyallahu anhu - was not elected. No votes were cast. No opposition candidate stood up to contest the seat.

Hadrat Umar radhiyallahu anhu - was nominated by Hadrat Abu Bakr. no democratic election took place.

Hadrat Uthman radhiyallahu anhu was nominated from a council of 10? or was it 6? Whatever the number the candidates decided amongst themselves who should be the leader, public just had to sit tight and wait for the council to decide. And same situation with Hadrat Ali radhiyallahu anhu.

Point is no1 was voted in by the people.

So the people on the council were not people?

The ones who nominated Hadhrat Abu Bakr were not people?

There are different ways to elect a leader.

Us muslims want some sort of visible leadership. How do you propose we find one?

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

total garbage...just your opinion from your madrassah. Any educate dperson knows that a woman is teh firsy university ofr teh child so it is even more important to make sure the woman attends the mosque, learns the deen, becomes an active daee...not just sit at home!
I gave you the verse of the Quran, hadith from Bukhari and Nisaee in the other thread to back my points up.

The four imams were elected by the companions. This is shura or democracy to use the modern word.

Because of your medieval viewpoint today we have imams who do jack, who dont understand issues of the community, who cant speak the language and do sermons on irrelevent issues

Interesting! This opinion is not just from my madrassah. Yes I agree that women need to be educated in deen, infact it is an incubent duty upon them to gain religious education. Nowhere have I said they should be forbidden from the mosque, I merely say they should be discouraged. I dont think thats a minority opinon and even if it is so what? Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam himself encouraged women to remain in the home and not to go out and about so even if this is a minority opinion it doesnt matter; the weight of Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallams words is heavier than the whole world and all that is in it.

It is noteworthy that you begin to quote hadeeth e Nabwi salallahu alayhi wa sallam but what is even more noteworthy is that their context and explanation is lacking. The Quran cannot be understood without Ahadeeth, Ahadeeth cannot be understood without the actions of Sahabah. These three are pivotally connected.

FYO:
[color=red]
In Muatta Imam Maalik the following narration appears: "Yahya Ibn Saeed narrates from Umrah Binti Abdur Rahman that Aishah (radhiallahu anha) said: 'If Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) had observed that which women have now introduced (i.e. after the demise of Rasulullah), he would most certainly have prevented them from attending the Musjid just as the women of Bani Israeel were prevented." Yahya enquired: 'What, were the women of Bani Israeel prevented from the Musaajid?' Umrah replied. 'Yes.'
When Ameerul Mu'mineen Hadhrat Umar (radhiallahu anhu) finally enacted the prohibition to prevent women from g oing to the Musjid, they complained to Aishah (radhiallahu anha). Answering their complaint, Hadhrat Aishah (radhiallahu anha) said: "If Nabi (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) had known what Umar now knows (of the condition of women), he would not have granted you permission to emerge (i.e. to leave your homes and come to the Musjid for Salaat)." (Jaamiur Rumooz)[/color]

Further we present the following:
[color=red]
Arabi in his Sharhut Tirmizi states:

"Aishah {radhiallahu anha) and Ibn Mas'ud (radhiallahu anhu} are of the opinion that women should be prevented from the Musjids and that they should necessarily cling to the dark corners of their home {when performing Salaat)."[/color]

In light of the above it is clear that this understanding is not limited to me and my madrassah as you make out but rather is rooted strongly in classical islam and the islam of the early and pious predecessors.

My brother it is not in our tradition (mine and AbdusSalams) that we engage in debating such issues because truth be told we ourselves do not claim to understand deen. We do taqleed of the earlier ulama. Hwoever, i note that people here expect some sort of proof so with great deliberation I have mustered th courage to provide you with the above two extracts. If you want to argue against it, that is your wish; the above is by no means our only evidence but the only point of quoting above is to show to others that there is ATLEAST some basis for our viewpoint.

The leap from shura to democracy is unfounded and is a leap of faith: u still have to prove the connection between the shura of Sahabah and democracy of today.

Your language referring to imams who do ''jack'' is offensive and highly disrespectful. I encourage you to maintain atleast a tone of neutrality to the imams, even if they are somewhat lacking in their duties.

Medievalist in those times the mosques were mixed. Men at the front, women at the back.

Now we have separate halls, so the question of what is done in the mosques, and attitudes between the sexes is no longer valid.

If it was for women to be banned for all eternity from mosques, the Prophet would have done it. It was not, but later, hte situation arose where it was not approp[riate for women to attend the mosque. That situation has now been solved.

ok the situation has now been solved.

please provide evidence from leading scholars who came after the Sahabah and say that the bans given by Hadrat Aisha and Hadrat Ibn Masud are to be lifted.

ok i might concede that there is difference of opinion. But the point is that my stance does also have proofs and validity, whether you like it or not.

erm... the Sahaabah passed away a long time ago. They are not here to pass judgement atm.

My stance also has proofs. Mainly if women were never to be allowed to enter mosques, the Prophet would himself have implemented that!

Them when the ban/discouragement did come, it came with a reason.

I am not a mufti, but I have studied this aspect in detail in the past. (I had to write a 10,000 word (i think) essay on womens rights as part of my Islamic studies. I had to consult many scholars, past, present, different secs etc.)

im not saying they are to be forbidden.

i said discouraged.

i understand ur stance and can also see that you have evidence.

i think i also have a valid stance and evidence.

som1 accused me b4 of being intolerant. well here i am saying i can understand urstance and also see that you have some proofs. if that isnt tolerant then i dnt understand the concept.

i was thinking that tolerance is having one opinion but being aware that othres differ and that they can also have valid proofs and opinons. hence i NOW say i see u have proof and some valid arguments. If u want me to say anything else im sorry but thats as far as i go

i concede u have some validity, but i also think i also have validity. the two are not mutually exclusive .

ok.

ok?!

OK?!! is that ALL u can say?

im making a big effort here and all u can say is OK!?

atleast gimme some feed back. was my post made acceptable enough. or am i still to rigid in it? does it make sense?

dont just say ok. what the hell does ok mean?

Ok means I understand your view. I disagree, but you are entitled to it.

I also now know you are not just saying my view is offbase without any logic/proofs.

Its acceptable. You seem to be tolerant to other views to youeself. Thats a biggie.

(BHowever, saying that others accepting your views should not be important to you.)