Wanton destruction of Palestine and Lebanon

Published by You on 29 June, 2006 - 23:18
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Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 18 March, 2007 - 01:04

Syria is not a natural candidate to be run by secular Alawi Baathists. Not that the Muslim Brotherhood is any nearer to peace with Israel, but perhaps it is a greater issue under the present authoritarian regime, increasingly tied as it is to Iran, and which would otherwise be fragile.

Also there is a difference between maintaining a solid defence and using it.

It could be like England and Holland, or the US and Canada. No point fighting, whatever the capabilities.

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 18 March, 2007 - 01:10

"Admin" wrote:
Not that it would ever be final, but I am willing to settle for 6 relatively good years over none.

Now that is beneath you. Has to be final. Cray 2

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by Dave on 18 March, 2007 - 01:12

"Mr Honey's Day Out" wrote:
It could be like England and Holland, or the US and Canada. No point fighting.

Holland and England are both (nominally) Christian, secular liberal *white* but pretending to be multiracial states. What differences is there between a Brit and a Hollander?

A funny accent.

Israel is a primarily Jewish "multifaith" state, surrounded by Arab Muslim states. - Arab states that are determined to see an Arab continent. Surrounding this little Jewish state determined to remain a Jewish state.

That's the whole crux of the problem - it's what makes Israel Palestine different from England Holland. The most controversial problem between the English and Netherlanders is a stupid parade for the Orangemen every once in a while.

Compared to the insurmountable problems of racism and religious superiority complexes?.

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 18 March, 2007 - 02:15

"Don Karnage" wrote:
insurmountable

Maybe.

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by You on 20 March, 2007 - 15:26

Quote:
[size=18]Norway-Hamas link angers Israel[/size]

[b]Israel has cancelled a meeting with a visiting Norwegian minister after he held talks with the prime minister of the new Palestinian unity government.[/b]

Norway was the first Western country to recognise the new government which contains members of the militant group Hamas and its main rival, Fatah.

Israel says it will not deal with the new administration, and has called for a continued international boycott.

The US and EU have withheld recognition but left a door open for future ties.

They say they will judge the government on its actions and meanwhile they have indicated they will maintain contacts with ministers who are not members of Hamas - which they consider a terrorist organisation.

Raymond Johansan, Norway's deputy foreign minister, had been due at the Israeli foreign ministry, but the meeting was called off.

On Monday, he met Prime Minister Ismail Haniya of Hamas and other government officials, becoming the first high-ranking Western official to visit leaders of the militant Islamic movement.

[b]Clarification[/b]

"This is standing policy," said an Israeli political source quoted by Reuters.

The source said Israel decided a year ago, after Hamas won parliamentary elections, it would boycott visiting dignitaries who met leaders of the group.

The US and EU want the new government to clarify its position in three areas, recognition of Israel, the armed struggle and signing up to past peace agreements.

The current platform talks of "respecting" peace deals, but also the "legitimate right" to all forms of Palestinian resistance, which US and EU say could include terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians.

Norway is not an EU member but has played a major role in past Middle East peacemaking.

In the 1990s, it hosted secret meetings between Israeli negotiators and members of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, which led to signing of the Oslo accords.

[url= News[/url]

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"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by You on 22 March, 2007 - 17:48

Back to the other topic

Quote:
[size=18]Bolton admits Lebanon truce block[/size]

A former top American diplomat says the US deliberately resisted calls for a immediate ceasefire during the conflict in Lebanon in the summer of 2006.

Former ambassador to the UN John Bolton told the BBC that before any ceasefire Washington wanted Israel to eliminate Hezbollah's military capability.

Mr Bolton said an early ceasefire would have been "dangerous and misguided".

He said the US decided to join efforts to end the conflict only when it was clear Israel's campaign wasn't working.

The former envoy, who stepped down in December 2006, was interviewed for a BBC radio documentary, The Summer War in Lebanon, to be broadcast in April.

Mr Bolton said the US was deeply disappointed at Israel's failure to remove the threat from Hezbollah and the subsequent lack of any attempt to disarm its forces.

Britain joined the US in refusing to call for an immediate ceasefire.

[b]'Damn proud'[/b]

The war began when Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers, but it quickly escalated into a full-scale conflict.

BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says the US-UK refusal to join calls for a ceasefire was one of the most controversial aspects of the diplomacy.

At the time US officials argued a ceasefire was insufficient and agreement was needed to address the underlying tensions and balance of power in the region.

Mr Bolton now describes it as "perfectly legitimate... and good politics" for the Israelis to seek to defeat their enemy militarily, especially as Hezbollah had attacked Israel first and it was acting "in its own self-defence".

Mr Bolton, a controversial and blunt-speaking figure, said he was "damned proud of what we did" to prevent an early ceasefire.

Also in the BBC programme, several key players claim that, privately, there were Arab leaders who also wanted Israel to destroy Hezbollah.

"There were many not - how should I put it - resistant to the thought that the Israelis should thoroughly defeat Hezbollah, who... increasingly by Arab states were seen as an Iranian proxy," said UN special envoy Terje Roed Larsen.

More than 1,000 Lebanese civilians and an unknown number of Hezbollah fighters were killed in the conflict.

Israel lost 116 soldiers in the fighting, while 43 of its civilians were killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks.

[url= News[/url]

Only surprising thing is someone owned up.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by You on 1 April, 2007 - 22:26

Quote:
[size=18]Israel offers Arabs peace talks[/size]

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has proposed holding a regional peace conference following the revival of an Arab peace initiative.

Mr Olmert said if Saudi Arabia arranged a conference of moderate Arab states and invited him and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, he would attend.

Earlier, Mr Abbas urged Israel to engage in direct serious negotiations as soon as possible.

Last week Arab leaders urged Israel to accept a peace plan proposed in 2002.

Saudi Arabia has yet to respond but the BBC's Alim Maqbool in Jerusalem says Mr Olmert's call for a regional summit suggests the plan could at least form a basis for fresh negotiations.

The Saudi plan offers Israel normalisation of ties with Arab states if it pulls out of all Arab land it occupied in 1967 and a "just solution" for Palestinian refugees.

Israel rejected the plan outright when it was first proposed.

But Mr Olmert said on Thursday Israel was ready to make "big and painful" concessions to advance the peace process.

[b]'Important leader'[/b]

Mr Olmert's call for a regional peace conference came during a news conference in Jerusalem with the visiting German leader, Angela Merkel.

"I am announcing to the heads of the Arab states on this occasion that if the Saudi king initiates a meeting of moderate Arab states and invites me and the head of the Palestinian Authority in order to present us the Saudi ideas, we will come to hear them and we will be glad to voice ours," Mr Olmert said.

"I think it is time to make a momentous effort in order to give a push to the diplomatic process... I am optimistic," he said.

"I invite all the heads of the Arab states, including of course the Saudi king whom I consider a very important leader, to hold talks with us," he said.

Earlier, speaking after his own talks with Mrs Merkel, the Palestinian leader had called on the Israeli government to respond constructively to the new Arab peace initiative.

[url= News[/url]

A chance for optimism?

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 1 April, 2007 - 23:40

Could be.

Tomorrow I begin celebrating Pesach (Passover), the exodus of the Bnei Yisrael from Egypt. It is a family time heavily laden with rituals of remembrance and celebration, while we base much of our diet around matza for eight days, because that was all the Bnei Yisrael had time to bake when they were on the move.

(Typically the festival sees an attack on busy Israeli destinations but let's hope this year will be different. For thousands of years the first Pesach meal has ended with the refrain "next year in Jerusalem" - although this year I am not in Jerusalem, and two of my brothers from Jerusalem are joining us in England.)

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by You on 1 April, 2007 - 23:55

enjoy the festival.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 1 April, 2007 - 23:56

Thank you very much Admin.

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by MuslimBro on 24 April, 2007 - 19:58

Quote:
[b]Hamas fighters end Israel truce[/b]

The armed wing of the Palestinian Hamas movement has said it is ending its five-month truce with Israel.

Earlier in the day the group launched a sustained barrage of rockets and mortars into Israel, the first such attack since November.

The group, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, said the attacks were in revenge for recent killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces.

The ending of the truce has not been confirmed by Hamas political leaders.

The Palestinian prime minister, Hamas's Ismail Haniya, whilst not confirming that the ceasefire was over, said the Palestinians had tried hard to observe the truce, but this had been undermined by what he called Israeli aggression.

[url]


The peace talks were looking promising but now this.
Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 24 April, 2007 - 20:55

[size=12]I find it astonishing that they claim a truce was holding up. What about the bomb in Eilat? The continuing missiles on Sderot? The shooting in Modiin? Drive-by shootings in the West Bank? Two major attempts on Tel-Aviv? And those are just some of the most recent. Hamas calls it a truce the moment they expect [url=. According to the Jerusalem Post there was a kidnapping attempt today and these rockets were intended to act as a diversion.[/size]

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by Beast on 24 April, 2007 - 21:55

Out of curioisty, how long did the last Israeli truce last?

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 25 April, 2007 - 00:11

As far as I can tell there was never a truce. Even as accords were signed or truces were signalled the Palestinian missiles kept coming and Israel continued its anti-terrorist drive. However the media invariably tell the story that Hamas has announced it will call of a truce in response to Israeli action and I invariably find that untrue.

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by You on 25 April, 2007 - 00:15

I suspect that the truce is just like the fact that Pakistan and India have not fought a war since 1971.

But the confrontations do seem to have been scaled back recently. less violent death and so.

—

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Submitted by Mr Honey's Day Out on 25 April, 2007 - 00:23

Certainly things have been worse. The recent Al Qaeda attacks on the American International School, internet cafes and the Christian library in Gaza add another militia to the mix and I don't know where things are headed. I can't say I'm feeling optimistic.

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[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]

Submitted by malik on 25 April, 2007 - 15:21

I think they should stop the fighting and Israelis simply give up.
Otherwise I can't see any chance of peace. What's the point of having more and more people being killed on both sides? Israel has been attacking Palestinians people since it was created in 1948. Palestinians have been bombing Israel back for 60 years. Its a nightmare.

—

Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".

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