"Sirus" wrote:

"laila" wrote:

any music that inspires love for the Holy Prophet is beautiful.

those who take offence can say what they like

Bang on

when there's love involved, true love.....well, as laila said....let fatwa's and whatnot be passed and said, love knows no boundaries

very amusing indeed. :twisted:

it must be true love. loooooooool.

:roll:

what's with the new med and the over-usage of smilies? they have now gone from haraam to fardh? :roll:

and you humour....sucks. anything which doesnt go with your backward thoughts is 'amusing' and u making fun of what i tryna say.

grow up

"Sirus" wrote:

:roll:

what's with the new med and the over-usage of smilies? they have now gone from haraam to fardh? :roll:

and you humour....sucks. anything which doesnt go with your backward thoughts is 'amusing' and u making fun of what i tryna say.

grow up

mashaALLAH a new fatwa. subhanALLAH.

Humour is a subjective thing my brother. What you would find funny I may well not, what I find funny you may well not - doesnt make mine any more or less valid than your perception but your wise words have been noted.

Yes - backward is a perfect word.

mashaALLAH - perfect.

take out the Mashallah's and Subhanallah's.......,and ur jus chatting outta ur rear end

its ok bro, i understand, its late

p.s. the fact u pride yourself on being backwards says enuff, and that you shouldnt be taken seriously. coz all u making islam sound is backwards

"Beast" wrote:

The problem is not necessarily that people like Sami Yusuf express themselves and their piety through music but that girls shout and scream at people like Sami Yusuf.

that was one of the issues raised, but the music issue was also discussed.

"Sirus" wrote:

"laila" wrote:

any music that inspires love for the Holy Prophet is beautiful.

those who take offence can say what they like

Bang on

when there's love involved, true love.....well, as laila said....let fatwa's and whatnot be passed and said, love knows no boundaries

"*DUST*" wrote:

if a person uses magic to inspire love for the Prophet (s.a.w) in someone's heart, does that mean magic is allowed?

"Sirus" wrote:

:roll:

what's with the new med and the over-usage of smilies? they have now gone from haraam to fardh? :roll:

:o :? :shock: :x :oops: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow:

its called double standards sirus-get used to it

"*DUST*" wrote:

if a person uses magic to inspire love for the Prophet (s.a.w) in someone's heart, does that mean magic is allowed?

lol, thats one magic trick id like to see.

well magic as used against The Beloved Prophet (Saw), and He has condemned its usage, so a true lover of Rasulallah wouldnt contemplate usnig magic. Love for Rasulallah has to be genuine and you have to feel it yourself. that and i've never heard of anyone using magic for that

Adopting haraam to inculcate love is deviancy.

MashaALLAH you have recognised me Sirus.

And yr beautiful Islaam has done soo much for muslims innit.

"Med" wrote:

And yr beautiful Islaam has done soo much for muslims innit.

and are u not part of "islam"[/b]

"Med" wrote:

Adopting haraam to inculcate love is deviancy.

MashaALLAH you have recognised me Sirus.

And yr beautiful Islaam has done soo much for muslims innit.

What exactly do you mean by "your" :roll:

"Sirus" wrote:

well magic as used against The Beloved Prophet (Saw), and He has condemned its usage, so a true lover of Rasulallah wouldnt contemplate usnig magic. Love for Rasulallah has to be genuine and you have to feel it yourself. that and i've never heard of anyone using magic for that

musical instruments appeal to man's base instincts. even animals are soothed by the playing of certain instruments. you said it yourself: 'love for Rasulallah has to be genuine and you have to feel it yourself' so why does one need music of all things to be 'inspired' to love the Prophet (s.a.w). how can it possibly be so easy, that a person gains 'genuine love' for the Prophet (s.a.w) by listening to one song. love is an emotion that is developed over time, not from a few songs.

for arguments sake even if a song were to inspire love for the Prophet (s.a.w), surely its the lyrics and not the instruments used which are the source of inspiration? so why can't one listen to songs minus the instruments?

ok Dust firstly in answer to your last question i think what Beast said was valid enough.

the magic thing - all magic is forbidden but not all musical instruments are

dont get me wrong i'm not disagreeing with you of course you are right about the affects of musicical instruments but what i do find tedious is the undue attention and energy spent in condemning this art when in fact as Beast said all these people are trying to do is wean kids away from pop to nasheed by keeping it a bit familiar, so kids can relate better to it.

"laila" wrote:

ok Dust firstly in answer to your last question i think what Beast said was valid enough.

the magic thing - all magic is forbidden but not all musical instruments are

dont get me wrong i'm not disagreeing with you of course you are right about the affects of musicical instruments but what i do find tedious is the undue attention and energy spent in condemning this art when in fact as Beast said all these people are trying to do is wean kids away from pop to nasheed by keeping it a bit familiar, so kids can relate better to it.

the Prophet (s.a.w) allowed the use of daf specifically on days of eid and at the time of celebrations such as weddings and having won battles. nowadays people have the headphones of their ipod, mp3 player, wotever, stuck in their ears 24/7. there's a slight difference.

about the last point (beast's), the intention may be good but that doesn't make it halaal. 'the end does not justify the means'.

I admire Yvonne Riddley candour, she certainly has a revolutionist mind, May Allah swt keep the passion which she has for the Ummah burning in her heart.

"Dust" wrote:

about the last point (beast's), the intention may be good but that doesn't make it halaal. 'the end does not justify the means'.

It is narrated on the authority of Amirul Mu'minin, Abu Hafs 'Umar bin al-Khattab, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, say:

"Actions are (judged) by motives (niyyah), so each man will have what he intended. Thus, he whose migration (hijrah) was to Allah and His Messenger, his migration is to Allah and His Messenger; but he whose migration was for some worldly thing he might gain, or for a wife he might marry, his migration is to that for which he migrated."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]

I agree.....

"(*_Shazan" wrote:

I admire Yvonne Riddley candour, she certainly has a revolutionist mind, May Allah swt keep the passion which she has for the Ummah burning in her heart.

ameen - thumma ameen.

[url=http://www.themajlis.net/Article146.html]4O Ahadeeth on Music[/url]

I turned down this very argument the day I readmitted Med,but what the hell...

The issue of music is not as clear cut as made out here.

In its essence music is NOT haraam.

The definition of haraam being something that has been clearly forbidden in the qur'an. Now there is no verse I am aware of that says 'thou shalt not play music Evaar!!!!'

Secondly instrumental music is not a new issue which has arisen this century. The chisti's have been playing music in their 'qawwali's' for centuries. and no school of thought bans drums for the morale of troops.

Further noone is against singing inge enral either. Afterall even the quran tells us to read the qur'an in a beautiful voice! (and there are three different classical speed styles here aswell.)

[b]So the issue is what type of music is liked, and what type of music is disliked.[/b] The issue of haraam only comes into it if the music is attached to some other haraam activity. Such as lewdness, seduction etc.

Now there are various classical opinions on what is allowd and what is not when it comes to instruments. AT the basic level the understanding is that tambourines are allowed, string instruments to be avoided. (no idea why. Possibly how the 'strings' are obtained... or mayb e something else.)

So do not make it appear as a very simple issue. It is not.

(And the spirit shown by the Sister is not of revolution (which no doubt she has personally gone through...) but that of naivety, where she thinks that in the short time she has studies and accepted Islam, she has managed to get a full understanding of the subject. I myselkf have no doubt that in the future she will regret some of her words.)

i agree Admin - good post

"Admin" wrote:

The chisti's have been playing music in their 'qawwali's' for centuries. and no school of thought bans drums for the morale of troops.

This is a slander on the pure Chishti Silsilah. From first hand experience I say this and I would request an apology but wont be holding my breath.

The 40 ahadeeth mashaALLAH are beautiful.

Aswell as the tafseer of Mufassir e Quran - Sayyidina Ibn Abbas radhiyallahu anhuma.

Like i said somewhere before - there are all types of weird and wacky in the world and the hadeeth of Bukhari Shareef will most certainly come true as we are seeing here.

Btw the ruling of the Hanafi Ulama is that even the duff is not allowed. It is the malikiyyah who permit it.

Its similtude is to the masalah of trimming the moustache. In ordinary circumstances it is sunnah to trim the moustache but in warfare the moustache can be grown long to make appearance more frightful and to strike terror in the hearts of the enemy - among the Sahaabah Sayyidina Umar radhiyallahu anh practiced this.

'pure chishti' silsilah? and how is it slander?

Its a slander because its not true. Thats what a slander is. :roll:

Are you sure its not true. Not what I was lead to believe...

But putting that issue aside (and also the issue of the 'pure chisti' silsila, which is once again your definition, which can include or exclude anyone you like or dislike, thus making it impossible for you to be wrong...), the rest of my post I see you have no issue with.

The ahadeeth are beautiful. So are those which argue a softer line.

and how is music similar to trimming of the tash? keep separate issues separate!

The point of the moustache was to show that exceptions exist to a ruling but you cant take that exception out of context.

In regards to your previous post. I've got major issues with it but if the 40 Ahadeeth of Sayyidina Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam are not sufficient- how can my words be?

But there's no point getting worked up about it. The very first hadeeth of the 40 prophecised abt the haraam being legalised - I submit to the prophecy and whatever was spoken by Hadrat salallahu alayhi wa sallam will surely come to pass.

yup you can stay on your high and mighty altar...

and rejecting the admonishments of Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam is soo meek and humble :roll:

"Med" wrote:

and rejecting the admonishments of Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam is soo meek and humble :roll:

I do not reject the ahadith.

The last time (and this time come to think of it) I did mention that there are ahadith to suport a diferent view to yours.

I am not trying to make my view the main one. I am just saying that there are diferent views, which have been taken by diferent scholars. All of which are to be respected.

You are too arrogant to see that.

You love your half truth too much. If you takes halves, the qur'an says do not approach prayer. Those who read it in full read the next bit which says if you are drunk.

In the same way you think its all about you and your opinion. I could care less. All I ask is you do not try to make it sound as simple as you think it is. It is not.

I could insult the people who have your opinion, but I choose not to. We have discussed music in full in the past, and did not see nay need to get into an argument about it again and again and again. But you seem to force that.

Soince you force your view on others, I will give a link which supports the opposing view:

[url=http://www.mynaraps.com/music.htm]Mynaraps - Q&A on music and singing in Islam[/url]

The highlights:

Quote:

There were many scholars in the past that said that music was permissible:

Shawkawni, Ibn Hazm, Ghazalli, Abú Bakr al-'Arabi, Qaradawi, and others.

Quote:

Al Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

The Two Festivals (Eids) - Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "Musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah's Apostle !" It happened on the 'Id day and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Bakr! There is an 'Id for every nation and this is our 'Id."

Now the Prophet himself defending singing accompanied by instruments? Wallahi.

Quote:

Imam Ghazali said in Ihya Ulum Al-Din--The Revival Of The Religious Sciences: "The musical instruments and songs which are typically associated with drunkards are prohibited as they remind of prohibited things and promote the prohibited, such as the consumption of wine and other intoxicants. These prohibited instruments include the Majamir, the Autar and the Kubah, but not the Daf, the flute and other musical instruments."

Imam Ghazzali not making the same sweeping statements as you? Astaghfirullah!

Quote:

The following hadith relates of how the adhan (call to prayer) came to be, and how the Prophet's companions suggested the use of musical instruments such as the horn or bell like the People of the Book. Now although the Prophet ultimately approved the use of the human voice, there is no mention that the Prophet chastised his companions for suggesting musical instruments for the adhan. And if the Prophet was so very much against musical instruments, then why would his companions dare to suggest the use of such sinful things in the call to prayer?

From Muslim Book 004, Number 0735:
Ibn Umar reported: When the Muslims came to Medina, they gathered and sought to know the time of prayer but no one summoned them. One day they discussed the matter, and some of them said: Use something like the bell of the Christians and some of them said: Use horn like that of the Jews. Umar said: Why may not a be appointed who should call (people) to prayer? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: O Bilal, get up and summon (the people) to prayer.

As I said its not simple.

Now you can be condescending, and condemn all who disagree with YOU. but I do not mind being put into the same group as Imam Ghazzali. It would be a great honour for me.

Admin - believe what you like. The prophecy will be fulfilled. And FYI I wasnt putting my views on any1 - I said you can do what u like I aint bothered.

We've got ppl not only permitting but recommending shirk - music is minor in comparison. :roll:

And nice links.

and beautiful ahadith.

We also have people here who are calling things which are not even haraam shirk! who are mischaracterising what others do just to see malice.

I did advise you the first time you brought up the subject to leave it.

Now you are treading a very fine line.

What you wrote can be read as asking for a ban. (calling other muslims mushrik is not nice...) But since I have been forceful, I will allow that. Once.

Ifyou want to leave, leave. You do not need to be forced out. If you wanna stay, well you know what to do.

Go do wudu, drink some cold water. and then think about what you are doing.

It does not look good when arrogantly acting holier than thou to go around calling everyone mushrik.

And I did back up my argument with SAHIH Hadith from Sahih Bukhari.

Now when I said its complicated, you disagreed. You WERE trying to force your view to see how far you could get.

Med I added to the above post, so read it again.

And you do realise that in one of the sahih hadith, the Prophet HIMSELF allowed the playing of music in that particular incident.

Now think of what you wrote earlier in your blanket assertions.

If you combine the two, you must either admit error of your ways, deny the sahih hadith or believe the Prophet not only allowed, but condoned, an haraam act to be committed infront of him.

I hope you are not arrogant enough to take one of the latter two options.