Salaam

Harsh article.

Listening to music and the behaviour of sisters in Islamic Nasheed concerts are two completely different issues.

The two are not linked; it IS possible to listen to Nasheeds and to control yourself.

“Quite frankly, I really don't know how anyone in the Ummah can really let go and scream and shout with joy at pleasure domes when there is so much brutality and suffering going on in the world today”.

There IS and always has been some sort of brutality going on around the world. And because there is brutality going on around the world, are we forbidden to show happiness? When a son/daughter is born in someone home, or someone pass’s their driving test/graduates from Uni, or gets a new job or whatever…should we not express happiness because of what’s going on around the world?

Secondly, Islamic relief managed to raise over £120,000 for the poor and needy around the world in London alone….God knows how much they have raised altogether,

So how comes Yvonne never mentioned that? esp since her main argument was the fact that Muslims are turning a blind eye to all the suffering that is going on around the world.

Wasalaam

Wat a loada codswollop that article! The fact that those hijabi's were screaming seems to show that their intention was not to listen to the praise of the Allah (swt) and the Holy Prophet in the most respectful manner.

I think those girls that did behave like that may have been used to the unislamic "gigs", who knows. But to state Nasheeds as haram is way too harsh, these nasheeds artists praise the Holy Prophet and aim to bring the love and respect in the hearts of these lost youngsters, what's so wrong about that?

Lets not blame nasheeds and nasheed "artists" for the irresponsible behaviour of some girls.

five SEPERATE issues raised

1-the status of music in islam

2-girls going crazy over popstars :roll: :roll:

3-yvonne assuming that we dont care about muslims suffering all over the world cos we show happiness and go to nasheed concerts

4-overlooking the fact that nasheed concerts ALWAYS raise money for the poor n needy

5-yvonne AGAIN slagging off other muslims :roll:

She never said nasheeds were altogether haram. She said certain kinds of music under the guise of "nasheeds" are haram and i agree with her. I've often thght it was a problem.

This hyteria she is describing is something a brother once told me about. He went to a nasheed concert and sisters were behaving well let's just say not modestly, and the "boy band" were encouraging them. After that incident he never went to another concert again.

There's a difference between nasheeds that move our hearts to remember God, and nasheeds which stir our hearts to jig our bodies.

To some extent nasheed artists have to take part of the responsibility. If they're the ones opening the platform for this sort of behaviour they need to find ways to curb this behaviour or think about finding a more modest location for their religious songs.

I agree some nasheeds in no way encourage such behaviour but there are many new age nasheed artists, which Yvonne is obviously referring to, who do encourage this behaviour. Ironically Islam channel airs some of them. I remember seeing some nasheed concert aired on that channel on Eid. The artists were dancing around, and no it wasn't sufi dances. They were clearly encouraging the audience to dance no question about it.

Another well known artist (again Islam channel) seems to have music videos . He poses in them much like classic pop videos on mtv. Please don't tell me this is instilling love of the prophet in our hearts, he's instilling the love of himself into our daughters hearts :roll: Seriously makes me sick and angers me more when it's suggested these ppl are giving us God fear or love for our prophet (saw).

Also anyone can make a religious song, but not anyone can produce a "sacred song" Of late there are too many nasheed artists out there offering nothing but the odd references to Allah, and deen mixed with english lyrics and composed together with very obvious non islamic tunes. Without naming names there is a boy band out there who mimic all of nsync songs with islamic lyrics. How can we call these ppl nasheed artists, sorry but to my mind they are a boy band. They should be on top of the pops not claiming to be planting the seeds of love for our prophet or God (swt) in our hearts.

I've never felt the medium of "concerts" was appropriate for nasheed songs. Aisha (ra) for example has been mentioned as listening to a man singing in some ahadith. Our prophet permitted it coz it was Eid and it was a religious song. But somehow i doubt our prophet would have approved of these modern day "concerts" which mimic western concerts entirely.

I think conferences which have a mixture of lectures, Quran recitation, Dhikr, Naats and nasheeds are far superior and a more appropriate location to air sacred songs, not stadiums which the day before housed a grunge concert.

P.S even if these nasheed concerts ( i mean the ones Yvonne is referring to) raise money for charity it doesn't make it right does it? If a brother placed bets that he could drink 10 pints in X minutes and the proceeds would go to charity would that still be ok? The intention is correct but the method isn't.

Salaam

I listen to Sami Yusuf, so do many of my friends. I’ve never, ever felt the inclination to dance to any of his Nasheeds.

And if girls do go crazy and/or start to dance or whatever, how is that his fault?

He himself doesn’t ever dance and hardly moved when performing…. nor does he encourage others to do so.

We need to take responsibility for our own actions.

Personally, I see Nasheeds as a fantastic alternative to MTV music….its nice to have Ahbab’s Mustapha’s Qasida on your mind or playing in the car rather than some Westwood CD.

If anything, the behaviour of girls need to be controlled, not the permissibility of Nasheeds.

Wasalaam

No offence to the brother Sami Yusuf but when i referred to pop videos unfortunately he was one who comes to mind. Girls do drool over him because of such videos and the way he portrays himself in them. These artists should take "part" responsibility for creating the fithna in the first place. These vids are for nothing but to get a greater fan base and sales. Can you imagine the uproar that would be caused if a sisters in hijab did such videos even if it were in the name of Islam? So why is it ok for brothers to do it?

Also since women tend to be the big spenders lots of these vids are targetted towards them, the artists that appear in such "alluring" vids can't deny this. So they have a reason for appearing in immodest poses in these vids, don't tell me they're posing for all the brothers watching.

Personally I think nasheeds are an excellent alternative for other types of music. But I don't agree with full blown music as is used by the likes of Sami Yusuf and other artists, how is it justified from a Shariah point of view? Is it?

I take the view that the duff is one of the instruments that are permitted for nasheeds. Things like a full blown orchestra, drums, keyboards, guitars etc etc seem far off from the simple melody of the duff.

Regardless of the religious viewpoint i take on music I just detest the videos and concerts and other such methods which do nothing but mimic MTV culture. When so called nasheeds get associated with the likes of MTV and Top of The Pops there must be a problem that we're either failing to see, or failing to admit. The whole concept of nasheeds as supported by our prophet seems to have become something very alien to us. Many of us think we are listening to nasheeds when in fact they are just softer forms of music that we can digest and justify as religiously sound. That's my view.

"yashmaki" wrote:

No offence to the brother Sami Yusuf but when i referred to pop videos unfortunately he was one who comes to mind. Girls do drool over him because of such videos and the way he portrays himself in them.

Excuse me for my ignorance but how exactly does sami yousaf "potray" himself?

I have only seen a few of his vids and i dont see anything wrong with them, what makes me upset is that people like sami yousaf/shaam etc are trying to get the youngsters into Islam yet people are constantly putting them down.

I found Yvonne's article a bit OTT!

one video he does he is completely posing in it, yet singing about God? It's like some shampoo ad hey look at me.

To be fair he's not the only one who makes such vids, i just don't see the need for them other than increasing the female fan base and thus sales. He's selling a product at the end of the day, his objective is to make money. Nothing wrong with it except it's rather distasteful singing about Allah to the beat of an orchestra, how sacred is that? Just how is it healthy for the youth. Does it really instill God fear, coz all i see in these nasheed concerts is entertainment. Entertainment is fine and dandy, as are nasheeds if staged in the right setting. These days they're not.

Nasheeds in principle are great ways to get kids and teens interested in their faith. But there are rules for everything in Islam. To me these modern day types of nasheeds are being packaged as halal nasheeds simply because of the "islamically orientated vocabulary" and nothing else to their merit.

Some folks make the excuse well it's better my child listens to these nasheeds artists even if lots of instruments are used, and they have concerts and dancing etc etc. I'd rather they scream over muslims rather than non muslim artists like madonna, eminem, britney spears etc etc. It's as if it's easier to justify and accept just because these artists are muslims. Well that's a poor excuse for allowing your kids to listen to nasheeds which you know are prohibited. Halal alternatives are always available and if not they should be introduced.

I don't think artists like Sami Yusuf are doing dawah work. He's offering a commercial product. By trade he and most of his family members are musicians. Is this a respectable vocation for a muslim. I certainly wouldn't be happy if my child turned around and said mummy i want to be a musician. So how is he a good role model? It reminds me of those Christian channels which are hosted by men in in suits. They try to sell you religion. Rather disgusting to many devout Christians. I find these methods disgusting in the same way.

In contrast Yusuf Islam is more of an inspiration to the youth. I don't agree with certain ventures he's taken, but overall he put's himself across as someone who seriously wants to make changes especially for disadvantaged kids. He doesn't prance about like a member of a boy band either.

This is an interesting article all about this issue:

[url=http://www.themuslimweekly.com/fullstoryview.aspx?NewsID=F67DA461E272513...

"yashmaki" wrote:

one video he does he is completely posing in it, yet singing about God? It's like some shampoo ad hey look at me.

Which video was that? Where can you get Sami Yusuf's video's from?
Why do people moan about good looking Islamic people delivering lectures or singing Islamic songs?

"Angel" wrote:

"yashmaki" wrote:

No offence to the brother Sami Yusuf but when i referred to pop videos unfortunately he was one who comes to mind. Girls do drool over him because of such videos and the way he portrays himself in them.

Excuse me for my ignorance but how exactly does sami yousaf "potray" himself?

I have only seen a few of his vids and i dont see anything wrong with them, what makes me upset is that people like sami yousaf/shaam etc are trying to get the youngsters into Islam yet people are constantly putting them down.

I found Yvonne's article a bit OTT!

I agree. I've seen his mother video and his Al maulim one...I don't see anything wrong with the way he portrays himself.

And from what I've heard he behaves in a dignified way in concerts, he doesnt dance or prance about...nor does he encourage others to do so.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

I agree. I've seen his mother video and his Al maulim one...I don't see anything wrong with the way he portrays himself.

And from what I've heard he behaves in a dignified way in concerts, he doesnt dance or prance about...nor does he encourage others to do so.

Exactly and its such a shame that silly girls screaming like idiots have to ruin the image of these nasheed artists. Nasheed concerts are a good way of enjoying yourself, whoever goes with the intention of "gettin up and dancing on the dance floor all night" defo needs to think whose gathering they are going to!

While I agree muslims nasheeds are a good thing (even though I cannot stand them) for those who like them, I think the issue here is not nasheeds, but about organisation of Islamic events.

I am of the opinion that if something is done in the name of Islam, people find it easy to accept lower standards.

With proper organisation such events can [i]probably[/i] be controlled, aswell as with actually using the nasheed artists a tool to actually mention what is acceptable instead of edging the crown on.

are you guys aware that a specific type of dance is permitted by Many Scholars from the Past and was also done by the sahabas, out of love for the Prophet (SAW) and also done at times when the Naats of the Prophet (SAW) were recited, these dances were even done in the mosques.

There are many Sahih hadiths and many coming froM Syedina Aisha (RA).

There is one where some sahabas came i think they were african, and they were dancing outside the prophet (SAW) house shouting "muhammad abdun saleh" the prophet saw called his wife sy Aisha and said come and watch, he then asked the sahaba what are these people shouting, and sy Abu Bakr said they are shouting " muhammad ABdun Saleh", then the prophet (SAW) asked sy Aisha, do you wanna watch more or have you had enough? to this Sy Aisha said i want to watch more.

There is also an occasion where the prophet saw complimented 3 sahabas one of them ebign SY ALi, and all three started runing around The Prophet (SAW) in happiness and dancing.

There are other occasions to which sahabas have danced to Naats/Nasheeds.

For full references and to get a better idea of the picture, which i may have failed to present watch this lecture: its about 40 mins:

[url]http://www.ilm.minhajuk.org/multi/lectures/html/raks.html[/url]

But this does not mean that you blast nasheeds and pretend you in some sorta club, its solely for the love of the prophet (SAW).

"yashmaki" wrote:

Does it really instill God fear, coz all i see in these nasheed concerts is entertainment.

Nasheeds in principle are great ways to get kids and teens interested in their faith. But there are rules for everything in Islam.

what is the purpose of nasheeds? having never heard one i don't really know, but i thought they were a form of religious entertainment? or maybe that's oxymoronic, but i don't see why it should be.

"yashmaki" wrote:

Some folks make the excuse well it's better my child listens to these nasheeds artists

LOL, have you been talking to my mother? every time she's watching the islam channel, she's always telling me how much better it is than MTV.

i'm still confused on what, specifically, is wrong with dancing at a concert. i understand what has been mentioned earlier, that good-looking guys are probably used to promote these nasheeds. i wasn't aware that there aren't any female equivalents?
is dancing prohibited/discouraged because the interaction between males (say, on stage) and the female audience is haram, or is dancing prohibited because we're supposed to enjoy all things religious in a really sombre mood?

Dancing is not forbidden in Islam.

Its only forbidden between non Mahrams....and I'm sure its not really respectable to dance in front of ones dad/brother/uncles etc either.

I personally believe there are two qualities that a naat/nasheed receiter can possess, the first one being is to have a beautiful voice (which i think anyone can practice and achieve that) now the second thing is the ability to touch people's heart through their voice, to me this can only be achieved through the love and respect of the Holy Prophet (saw).

I think Sami Yousaf has this gift, whenever i listen to his nasheeds be it with or without music they truly touch my heart esp. supplication to such an extent that it actually brings tears in my eyes. Yeah the lyrics are beautiful but the person reading them has to be reading from the core of his/her heart in order to affect others.

interesting article which raised many valid points, and some which i did not fully agree with. yash's comments were also valid but i disagree about sami yusuf - i would prefer to think the brother has good intentions at heart. however it is very much the responsibility of nasheed artists also to control the crowds, a simple announcement before the performance would put all the screaming sisters back into their seats. :roll:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

3-yvonne assuming that we dont care about muslims suffering all over the world cos we show happiness and go to nasheed concerts

muslims certainly arent as bothered as they should be about their brothers and sisters around the world. i can see where her sentiment is coming from, and its not simply connected to nasheed concerts. i wonder how many muslims from the west have gone and worked with volunteer groups in afghanistan, iraq or palestine, like the one Tom Hurndall worked with before he was murdered.

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

5-yvonne AGAIN slagging off other muslims :roll:

wot do u mean 'again'? and so what if she is, you're just making it sound spiteful by using the phrase 'slagging off' when in fact she is just a concerned muslimah attempting to remind us of our rights and responsibilities. this is the duty of every muslim - if we see something wrong happening, we try to stop it or speak out against it. and muslims who are born into the religion are often more complacent than reverts, who have had to overcome a lot to practise the religion, the Ummah is lucky to have them.

Yvonne's approach is very harsh.

In [url=http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/1487/33/]this[/url] article of her's she harshly speaks out against the "hypocritical/foolish Muslims of Blackburn" for allowing Straw into their Mosque.

There is a way to speak out against wrong.

"MuslimSister" wrote:

Yvonne's approach is very harsh.

In [url=http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/1487/33/]this[/url] article of her's she harshly speaks out against the "hypocritical/foolish Muslims of Blackburn" for allowing Straw into their Mosque.

There is a way to speak out against wrong.

harsh but true.

"*DUST*" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

5-yvonne AGAIN slagging off other muslims :roll:

wot do u mean 'again'? and so what if she is, you're just making it sound spiteful by using the phrase 'slagging off' when in fact she is just a concerned muslimah attempting to remind us of our rights and responsibilities. this is the duty of every muslim - if we see something wrong happening, we try to stop it or speak out against it. and muslims who are born into the religion are often more complacent than reverts, who have had to overcome a lot to practise the religion, the Ummah is lucky to have them.

last summer i listened to her speech in a uni

she was slagging off MCB regarding sumin

I cant remember what it was but there was no truth in her accusations

MCB calrified her lies in their website

its totally slipped my mind what the matter was about-but I'll dig thru MCB site to try to find it for u

EDIT

[url=http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-459]THIS[/... is what i was talking about

full details are not given

but as far as i can remember she said sumin about them wanting to control friday khutbah's which wasnt tru

she was proper dissing them in her talk

she even got ME worked up

My friend fedor sent me a nasheed by Sami Yusuf and Outlandish. Now there are two names I wouldn't have thought to put together... I think Yvonne was really talking more about people like Sami Yusuf who have become famous "rockstar-like" figures for their Nasheeds - but I'm surprised she didn't mention the infusion of actual Pop stars into the practice.

Seems to reinforce the idea they are nothing but a way around the injunctions on music.

[color=blue][b]Asalamu alaykum!

hmm..the article does seem harsh but i do agree to some parts of it, not all.

Well i always used to think a nasheed concert was like a Mehfil e Naat were you praise Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and the Holy Prophet Salallahu alayhi wa'sallam through the nasheeds. Attending one last month i realised what it was like, i felt like a person stuck in the middle trying to listen to the lyrics whilst there were people screaming and shouting around me.

The lyrics of the nasheeds were beautiful as if you listened to them from the heart you'd have an effect but the screaming and shouting was unacceptable i just couldn't stand it :x

That is probably the last ever nasheed concert i ever attend in my life, If i want to listen to any of the artists id rather listen to their CD's and cassettes, much more better.

In the other hand if it's Sami Yusuf some have mentioned or any other artists that portray a bad image im not really sure :? ...in one hand yes with the videos and the way some react in concerts (not Sami Yusuf) names of groups which i dont want mention is unacceptable but it just does not mean they all the same. We don't know and can't say much as only Allah the Almighty knows their intention and what they really are.

When we see such sisters screaming and shouting i dont think its because of the nasheed its mainly the person more likely how he looks..well thats how i see them. Again i'll say screaming, shouting its unacceptable as it has been mentioned in many ahadith not to raise our voices above the voice of the Holy Prophet Salallahu alayhi wa'sallam. Plus whilst listening to a nasheed of the Holy Prophet Salallahu alayhi wa'sallam the respect you should have towards it its unbelievable, even the way you sit matters.

Now as you mentioned nasheed artists id like to also mention the 'modest' nasheed artists or 'naat khawans' whatever you'd like to call them. Im not mentioning any names but in my eyes nowadays some of those sincere naat khawans that we had have gone into advertising, media, selling etc....ive even seen some wearing an ear piece whilst entering a Mehfil e Naat just like a pop star wears an ear piece...why would a servant of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and the Holy Prophet Salallahu alayhi wa'sallam would need an ear piece :? and what does a naat praising the Holy Prophet Sallahu alayhi wa'sallam has got to do with a background of a sea view, a desert etc....

Yes! Some of these modern nasheed artists might go to an extreme level but not to forget some of the Modest known naat khawans are changing too but unfortunately people just cant see it.

My experience is more with the modest known naat khawans not the artists although i do listen to some like Sami Yusuf..soft tracks ie Al-Mualim etc...[/b][/color]

Check this out all:

ame
ahmed -
Profession
Question Could you please give us your opinion regarding the recent criticism of Sami Yousef's music by some scholars claiming his use of "un-Islamic" instruments in some of his songs.
Answer
There is nothing called Islamic and un-Islamic instruments; instruments are tools whose rulings is based on the way they are used for. This is a juristic rule that tools are judged according to the purpose they are used for. The negative attitude towards musical instruments in the old classical Islamic jurisprudence was mainly a reaction for deviant practices of people rather than a reflection of juristic texts.

Though the view of the majority of scholars is to forbid all musical instruments except duff, this view is based on weak arguments that do not stand solid in the juristic perspective.

1. Scholars tried to derive the ruling of prohibition from some verses of the Qur’an but while doing so they interpreted the verses in a way that is far from the direct and obvious meaning.

2. Ahadiths quoted in this regard are either unauthentic, not decisive to the effect prohibition, or opposed by stronger and more solid evidences from the Sunnah.

3. Some scholars, past and present, have verified the subject and pointed out the weakness of the argument stating that all musical instruments are forbidden. Some of these scholars are Ibn Hazm and Ash-Shawkani in the past, and Sheikh Al-Qaradawi and Al-Ghazali in the present.

As for Sami Yusuf, he followed a legitimate school of thought that stand on solid foundation. He used musical instruments to serve the cause of Islam and in my view and others he has done a good job in this filed. Attacking Sami Yusuf is, therefore, wrong from both the jurisprudential way as the juristic rule states that “a controversial matter is not to be condemned as wrong”. Any work that a person achieves based on a fatwa with solid evidences and issued by reliable scholars is not to be opposed even though we tend to subscribe to a different school of thought. We need to understand this juristic rule very well so as to allow diversity of opinions and pluralism in the madhahabs.

Those who attack Sami Yusuf are unfortunately ignoring the huge impact that un-Islamic deviant arts on especially on youth and the pressing need for alternatives. We live in a time that art has become more effective than the sword and the use of force. You can just imagine the huge impact that the recently published novel Da Vinci Code is leaving on the Christian faith and culture.

The good efforts done by Sami Yusuf in creating an alternative and using the musical instruments and video clips that were ever dedicated for indecency, must be appreciated and looked at positively.

http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=001qUP

very well put^^

I made some comments on this issue on the MMU ISOC forum, but that seems to be down at the moment!

and on there, the yvonne ridley article was longer......there were paragraps she digged into Sami Yusuf more, because he was proud to be british...and she started her usual cussing, 'whats to be proud of', 'the wars in iraq are coz of brits' etc etc. i think shes missing the point!

u tell em Islam ONLINE

but its true that she got side tracked

she's linking happiness expressed via music with muslim opression

and according to that philosophy one shud ever show happiness cos of whats going on in the world

Ms Ridley needs to chill :roll:

Ms Ridley also needs to control her anger, have you seen the words she uses? calls peoples fools, idiots, dogs, etc - so much hate, and allegedly a muslim voice, surely isnt good

"Sirus" wrote:

Ms Ridley also needs to control her anger, have you seen the words she uses? calls peoples fools, idiots, dogs, etc - so much hate, and allegedly a muslim voice, surely isnt good

it aint the first time

she acts like an HT teenager

the only reason she gets away with it cos she's a convert

its well known what circles she rides in, ahemm...wobblers....ahhem, so its nothing less of what i expect from her

and its great shes converted, but as a public figure and one people look up to, she needs to control her tone.........shes great if you want to jump up and blow something up!!

shes very angered, aren't we all......Even the Beloved Prophet was angered by certain events, but he never acted upon his anger, and niether should we. thats why you get all these wacko's who wanna blow stuff up

Does she still do journalism?