[color=indigo][b]1. How do shias read the shahadah? I heard they add something to the end.. can u please clarify malik?

2. Why do shias put a stone on the pray mat (pressing there forehead against the stone when they go down in sujuud)? [/b][/color]

before malik replies.....

The shahada which the shia read, incorporates the words.....

"wa Ali un waliullah" after muhamadurrasulullah (SAW)

Correct me on the following, if i am wrong Malik !

is it right that some if not all shia believe;

That the twelve supposed imams are supposedly higher ranking than some/most prophets

The Shia also make a similar addition to the adhan !!

The reason shia prostrate on a clod of earth (from karbala) is the supposed increase in reward for the prayer, just as the reward of prayer is increased with jama'at

The stone upon which shia prostrate on is called Turba Hussainiyah.. Its made of the soil/ground of Karbala, where Imam Hussain (radiAllahu anhu) was martyred.. Imam Hussain is given a honorific and elevated status in Shiism, and therefore so too is Karbala..

My shia friends would use paper, etc if they didnt have a turba with them - it isnt necessary to use a turba - as long as you prostrate on something natural or natural-based; like straw, paper, cloth, etc

They say that Prophet saw used to always prostrate on something natural, and so that is the reason given for using a Turba/turab..

[size=9]
(i know you asked Malik, but hope you dont mind me adding something too!)[/size]

ps. im sure some of the girls here have seen women move the ends of their hijab over their place of prostration when going into sujud

that's exactly what i was told, i studied in a shia organisation. I saw the pile of stones and asked what they were for, got the same reply as what Amal has given

I have a (Sunni) friend who recently went to an Iranian Shia organisation for his salat, and told me that there were large posters of Saddam Hussein getting hung in the prayer area. He his

Is it acurate to say that many/almost all the tensions and fighting between Sunni and Shia throughout history have actually been politically driven, as opposed to spiritually or belief-based?

Also, there are many different groups that all fall under the umbrella of Shiism, and we shouldnt judge them all on the actions of a few.

asalamualaikum[/b]

I think I don't need to answer above questions because someone has already answered them; I agree with what they have written.

Shias do not think it is ok to harm yourself. They do not consider matam as an act of harming. Harming yourself in indeed wrong. Matam does not harm us.
Shia Muslims did not add a sentence to the Shahadah Kalimah. We follow the Prophet (pbuh). He added that sentence and we Shias follow his example. It is haram to add anything to Islamic teachings given by Allah.

Shia Muslims do call upon Imam Ali for help. Asking Imam Ali for help is not Haram because our books say Prophet (pbuh) himself asked Imam Ali for help. Therefore we Shias consider it Sunnah to go ask Imam Ali.

It is all in our Shia books.
We Shias Muslims as you may know have our own books of Tareekh and hadith.
Sunni Muslims have six books of hadith, we have four big books of hadith.
I have not read them all myself. I am no Alim in these matters. Shia Ulema know the Sunnah of your Prophet (pbuh). They teach us what is right and wrong.

I can't.
But you can ask a Shia Alim and he can give you all the quotes. But what use will these quotes be to you since you don't accept Shia books as authoritative?
Do you see my poinit?

Shias accept only Shia books and Sunnis accept only Sunni books.

Brother I agree with you entirely; and the sister is also so right in her point.
Scholars of all branches should get together and display the unity of Islam.

Instead of focusing on what differences you have... wouldnt it be better to focus on your similarities?

Coz then you'd prob realise that you hav more in common than you hav differences... know this and that diversity is a great thing...

"malik" wrote:

Shia Muslims do call upon Imam Ali for help. Asking Imam Ali for help is not Haram because our books say Prophet (pbuh) himself asked Imam Ali for help. Therefore we Shias consider it Sunnah to go ask Imam Ali.

Assalamualaikum brother Malik, welcome to here.

If Rasulullah sallallaho alaihi wassallam did ask for Ali radianlaho anho for help, surely it was whilst Ali (r.a) was alive?

Personally, I am not too fond of the concept of intercession.

Be it the apostles of Isa (a.s), Rasulullah (s.a.w) or Ali (r.a).

Although, I believe that Allah (swt) sends our durood and salaams to Rasulullah (s.a.w), I do not understand why me must/should/can send our duahs to Allah (swt) through Ali (r.a) or Rasulullah (s.a.w).

I am not going into a discussion into whether Rasulullah (s.a.w) is alive in his grave or not, with my limited understanding, I don't feel I am capable of that discussion.

What I would like to ask is, as Muslims, if Allah swt has knowledge of all things that are seen, unseen, known and unknown - surely it makes sense to speak to him direct?

Why can't respect for Rasulullah (s.a.w), Ali (r.a) and the wives and companions of the prophets be displayed through other means? Like asking Allah (s.w.t) to shower their graves with the sweet scent of Jannah as an example of our appreciation for their sacrifices?

-- The other thing, in my books its minor.. but I'm still somewhat uncomfortable with it.

"Ya Allah, Ya Rasullullah, Ya Ali" is said a lot. Some even stop at "Ya Ali".. OK Allah(swt) comes first in the first quote. I guess its something. But do you not feel that it's still somewhat attributing partners with Allah (swt)?

"khan" wrote:

What I would like to ask is, as Muslims, if Allah swt has knowledge of all things that are seen, unseen, known and unknown - surely it makes sense to speak to him direct?

I agree with you. It does makes sense to go only to Allah.

But it is Allah's will that we go to His chosen Prophets and Imams.

This is not something that people have invented. Allah has ordained it in Quran. Concept of mediation has always existed. Even in the Bible Jesus informed us that no one can go to Allah except via Jesus.

This is not attributing partners with Allah; rather it is obedience to Allah.

If Allah had not commanded it, then asking Imam Ali for help would have been shirk.

If I were to ask Caliph Umar for help, I know this would be attributing partners with Allah. Because I do not hold him as designated by Allah to help me. But same is not the case with the Prophet, or Imam Ali, or the 12 holy Imams, or any of 124,000 Prophets sent by God. It is not Haram for example to ask Sulaiman or Abraham for help. They are Allah's chosen holy people.

This concept not something peculiar to Shia Muslims. Other Muslims of different sects also believe asking Prophet for help. This is allowed in Islam.

What I wish to ask those who deny seeking intercession of the prophet (S.AW), is what they will do on the day of judgement.

I have heard of a hadith where (paraphrased) the prophet (S.AW) said that he will fall in sujood to allah (S.WT) in order to intercede for the sinful believers of his community. This will occur after the sinful believers ask the holy prophet (S.AW) to beseech Allah (S.WT) on their behalf.

Will those who deny intercession remain adamant even on that day......doubt so.........very much doubt so !!!!!!!!

May Allah have mercy.

If you truly love Imam Ali, I believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will save you from any harm.

on i slightly related point, do Shia believe that Ali and the rest of the 12 Imams are free from commiting sins, in the same way the Prophets are (pbut).

And if so, does this mean that the Ayatollah, who is in the place of the Imams, is also free from sin.

jazakAllahu khairan

I believe that 12 Imams are sinless like the 124,000 Prophets. Shia Mulsims also believe that two other women are also sinless: Fatima and Mary.

Besides these no one else is infallible.

on this note, malik, can i just ask you to answer an earlier query i made which asks whether or not shia believe the 12 imams to be higher in rank than some prophets ?

How about some adab when writing about Ali (Radhiallah Anho) and Aisha (Radhiallah AnhaA) please...... These personalities are not just ordinary people......these are the people whom we have been instructed to love and show reverence to.

"Mecca Da Lyrical Berretta" wrote:

Bro asking the prophets for help while they are dead is HARAM, asking on judgement day is a different matter, but asking anyone for help, even the prophet's pbuh, as I was taught growing up and from reading various literature, is forbidden in Islam.

Proof please. For something to be Haraam it has to be explicitly banned in the Qur'an - in the same way to make somethign fardh it has to be explicitly mentioned in the qur'an.

I do not think it is forbidden. On the other hand there are proofs and ahadith on its permissibility.

r u talking bwt wen u say yali madat as a kid growing up my parents tauht me to say it when doing a very difficult task e.g picking up something heavy im not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but if it is let me know

"F4NZO" wrote:

r u talking bwt wen u say yali madat as a kid growing up my parents tauht me to say it when doing a very difficult task e.g picking up something heavy im not sure if this is what you guys are talking about but if it is let me know

That is excatly what I was talking about.

Whenever you do something too hard, you say Ya Ali Madad and then it becomes easy.

If any Muslim realises they are about to do something that is very difficult such as talking on the American forces, like Iraqi brothers are doing, they simply say Ya Ali Madad and then winning becomes easy and they make the US marines lose.
I can already see that American military forces in Iraq are struggling as never before. Media in US compares Iraq to Vietnam. They have failed to crush the Iraqi resistence. Why?
Answer is Ya Al Madad. Iraq is land of Imam Ali. There is hadith of Prophet (pbuh): La Fatah Illah Ali. There is no Victory without Ali.
No one can fail if he or she calls upon the Holy Imam for help. Allah guarantees victory for all those who love Imam Ali.

Hi Tex,

Now don't ask me why, because I have no idea, but I'm getting the distinct impression that shi'ism or whatever isn't really so much a religion as it is a revitalized persian fascist cult. Religious devotions to persian leaders, considering persia a kind of holy land - that sorta stuff. What are your thoughts on this? Do Shi'as worship figures from previous persian cults like Darius and Xerxes?

Thanks.

Shia Muslims only worship Allah. He is the true God.
Only God is supposed to be worship, and not His creation.

Therefore, we do not worship Darius and Xerxes. I don't even know who these people are.

You can find out about our beliefs and practices at this website.

http://www.shia.org/

"malik" wrote:

Shia Muslims only worship Allah. He is the true God.
Only God is supposed to be worship, and not His creation.

Tex,

How are we defining "worship"

What I think Don means is do you hold Xerxes etc. (et al?) in high regard?

"Admin" wrote:

What I think Don means is do you hold Xerxes etc. (et al?) in high regard?

No I meant do they worship him like their Ayatollah, Imams, Ali and Iran in general.

salaam, its an easy and tempting notion to fall under the 'lets unify' banner. In truth, there are huge differences between sunnis and shias and they are nothing like what exists between deobandis, brelevis, salafis etc.

The fundamental basis of shi'ism is that Ali should have been the first caliph and that he was wrongfully deprived of this. As a consequence many, if not the vast majority, of shia believe the sahabas - and notably Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were all in the wrong. Cursing the rightful sahabas is described by many ulemah as being an act of kufr.

In addition there are the dubious practices of mu'atha (temporary marriages) and also the practice of taqiya - being permitted to lie. You dont have to take my word for it, see what the great (sunni) scholars have to say:

THE ISLAMIC RULING ON SHI'ITES
Early Scholars

http://www.alinaam.org.za/library/shia_ruling.htm
[b]
Edit: the link is enough, those who wish to read it will do so.
- The Moderate Mod.[/b]

"UmarIbnAlKatb" wrote:

...Cursing the rightful sahabas is described by many ulemah as being an act of kufr...

Which ones?

It is a major sin, not kufr.

The only where criticism can lead to kufr is Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha Siddeeqa (Radiallahu ta'aala anhaa), as her purity is mentioned in a verse of the Qur'an.