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Put my name down for that.
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
Hate is a strong word.
However, Showkat pops up on other forums too with the same posts.
He comes across as someone who expects us to take him seriously without question. Just because his pronouncements might get a good reception on his 7th century forum doesn't mean everyone else will agree or that anyone else even wants to know.
Plus, I find his 'letter to the media' a bit arrogant.
Salaams All
Revival editor
The program showed quotes in isolation of the context and I think that we should listen to their whole speech before we come to any conclusion, otherwise what would be the difference beteen us as Muslims and the program makers.
Also certain opinions which they expressed may be based upon a weak understanding or interpretation of the texts, we shouldn’t judge them until we have heard their side as well.
We need to view the program from the perspective of why they made it in the first place instead of jumping on any bandwagon.
Khan
Jzk for the nice comment.
Abbas
Another nice comment brother.
Beast
I sent my letter to Muslim media. Also u are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine, jzk for reading and responding to mine.
[url]www.7cgen.com[/url], the place to be
THE hardline preacher at the centre of an explosive TV documentary into extremist lectures delivered at a Birmingham Mosque today insisted: "I have nothing to hide."
Abu Usamah At-Thahabi was secretly taped for months by undercover reporters, appearing to deliver hate-filled lectures at Green Lane Mosque in Small Heath.
He is now being investigated by West Midlands Police.
[b]But today he described the Channel 4 Dispatches programme as "a poor attempt at fair journalism because every one of my statements were taken out of context - without any explanation."[/b] I don't think they are trying to persecute muslims. I read somewhere they were trying ro see why you all weren't integrating into society.
That's the problem with you: You take Muslims to be one homogenous whole that acts and behaves as one unified entity.
You need to develop an appreciatiation for the Muslim individual.
(Apologies to both Stmark and Showkat. I seem to be rather judgemental of late. Don't know what's come over me)
That time of the month?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Salaams! I suppose what this all needs is an approach which engages critically with BOTH sides of discussion. And then you'll find the results are very interesting. I've always for example, found it uncanny how these 'Imams' of the Wahabbi persuasion begin to eerily mirror what they are ostensibly opposing! For 'dirty, filthy, Kaffirs' read the far right's insisitence that all of us are 'uncivilised, vile, savages'. Honest to Allah these guys dhould be veritible bed fellows! Also hilarious was the way in which Mortaza something or other screamed how he didn't want 'his' women and children to be 'undressed' by 'filthy, non-Muslim hands'. I suppose it would all be perfecto then if they were transfered to filthy Musilim hands- oh excuse me I forgot, that is quite simply oxymoronic. Filthy Muslims just don't exist.
Sisters and Brothers we need a reality check. Yes the programme perpetuates Islamophobia and will have the far right riding on an already large populist wave. But we cannot deny that such problems as were presented DO exist. It's ridiculous to dismiss them as smoke and mirrors, Imams 'out of context' etc. Let's not delude ourselves, many 'Imams' are so ignorent they couldn't summon a brain cell between them. And their escape clause is a literallist essentialism that seemingly concretises their agrarian intepretation of our beautiful faith. The patriarchy issue still knocks me for six. Why are they so preoccupied with highlighting the 'deficiency' of women? Without it their cushy little existence would have no meaning is why- it is propped up by the demonisation of women, just like Islamaphobia is susatined by today's media representation of Muslims. Anyone who cannot see this as the crisis in masculinity of a group of sad old men needs keyhole surgury of the brain.
We cannot afford for this to continue but unfortunately have to acknowledge the problem first. To emply the sort of reductive binarist rethoric- them and us- that pervades the discourse of what we are opposing is counter productive in every sense.
I say, let the 'Imams' and the BNP loose on Big Brother, if they aren't beautiful friends by the end then Subhanallah indeed.
10th July, 2006
It would be an understatement to say the Muslim Council of Britain and journalist Martin Bright are not exactly the best of friends.
The latter, political editor of New Statesman magazine, will be presenting a documentary on Channel 4 next week arguing that the government is appeasing Muslim radicals in the UK and abroad, and failing to tackle extremism.
He tells AIM magazine that the government is being very "short-sighted" and failing to adequately represent the huge diversity of opinion within the British Muslim community.
Martin Bright was himself the target of criticism last year when, as home affairs editor, he wrote a lengthy article in the Observer on the MCB's links to radical organisations in Pakistan.
"Far from representing the more progressive or spiritual traditions within Islam, the leadership of the Muslim Council of Britain and some of its affiliates sympathise with and have links to conservative Islamist movements in the Muslim world and in particular Pakistan's Jamaat-i-Islami, a radical party committed to the establishment of an Islamic state in Pakistan ruled by sharia law," his report said.
In reply the MCB said he was seeking "to vilify" the organisation and accused him of "unsubstantiated assertions".
When asked his thoughts on whispered accusations of him being Islamophobic, he says he finds the idea "laughable".
"I've got the deepest respect for the various Muslim communities in Britain," he says. "If anyone is doing damage to the cohesion of the Muslim community, it is the organisations that are mis-representing Muslim views. A picture of British Islam that is skewed is being presented to the government and my film is an attempt to redress the balance really."
In 'Who speaks for British Muslims' next week, Bright says that rather than tackling the ideology that breeds extremism, Whitehall has instead embraced it, promoting a narrow, austere version of Islam.
He told AIM magazine that a series of leaks from the Foreign Office showed the government was very open in their strategy of reaching out to organisations such as the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic radicals abroad.
"There is a theory in government circles that we have to bring people on the fringes of extremism away from extremism and back on the path of non-violent democractic politics," he said.
But that ignores the "huge diversity of people from the Muslim community" the government can deal with he adds, and instead focuses on representing a narrow ideology.
"They've had a rather limited strategy of dealing particularly with the MCB and organisations connected to them. I think they need to have more imaginative engagement and look further."
Bright thinks the government is also missing a trick by ignoring national differences.
"The Pakistani community, the Bangladeshi community, the Middle Eastern clerics - they all have their own issues. For example, dealing with the extremely rich Arabs of Edgware road is very different to the deprived pockets of the Pakistani community. I don't see how this one-size-fits-all policy works really," he says.
So what should the government be doing? Talk to a wider range of people for a start. And re-thinking its approach on policy level, he says.
"You have to have to have a special unit set up within say, the cabinet office, to deal with that. I know the government is very keen to distance the issues of community cohesion from the issues of counter-terrorism but it has to bite the bullet and have a high-powered department dealing with this problem."
The documentary is not an attack on the Muslim communities or their representatives, he says. He says the problem is rather a "symptom of the general short-sightedness on part of the government".
erm ed didnt u say shazan was showkat how he was banned hes fulla hate he should remain banned,so i take it ur not exactly on good terms with the guy are u?
btw since it keeps coming up i urge the muslims in particular to go learn about that hadith the defficiency of women before making unfounded comments about it :roll:
no i didnt say shazan was showkat
khassan beiv is shazan
showkat is ok. hes entitled to his view..he doesnt insult anyone...
out of interest sister, whats your understanding of teh DEFFICIENCY OF WOMEN...or what you have understood from YOUR ulema.
and also sis ...do you condemn any of the statements made by the 'imams' or are you gonna shout PROPOGANDA or just sit on the fence?
Erm.... what exactly is there to 'understand' about such a comment or comments? There's only so much acql you can apply. Bottom line, Islam is NOT a patriarchal religion but the idiots who have taken it upon themselves to represent it ARE! What do you expect when women are marginalised from every type of public and religious space. When the religion is synonomus with a group of crusty old codgers of course they would want to mainatin the status quo! Inclusivity of the opposite sex is a threat to them so they try to justify alienating the latter through what they feel cannot be challenged- their acql of the religion.
So let's not try to explain away what was said with rethoric and semantics. I'm afraid you just seem to align yourself with those on the programme when you do- and I'm sure nobody wants that.
u see u guys are arguing over something stupid..
get back on track...
1. dispatches had a problem about abu usama's comments on women.
2. abu usama gave his response to the allegations..
the logical next step would be to check if u have a problem with abu usama's response and whether he can be incriminated under uk or islamic law for saying what he said.
arguing amongst yourselfs on the meanings of hadith is pointless in my opinion.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
whos arguing?
its a discussion bro
it wasnt just abu usamah who made shocking comments but others too like bilal philips, khalid yasin & co.
abu usamas responce is of a man being caught red handed and saying I WAS QUOTED OUT OF CONTEXT!
we all heard what he said...now its sad to say he was just back tracking and hiding his mistakes.... rather than admitting that he said that but didnt make himself clear etc.
yes, a few comments might have been misquoted but certainly not all of them...
you see 'scholars' today fool or try to fool the layman with loads of arabic, random narrations and quotations of Imams and the layman cannot really say anything.
they are like salesmen...can sell you anything!
http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/?content_id=5350
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014875.php
I was making the point that Channel 4 was cynicaly plugging this programme to get maximum effect and impact.
A full-page ad in a newspaper read by white Tory countryfolk with such a strapline was designed to cause fear and suspicion.
Had this been a programme about right-wing European MEPs and their anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and male chauvinism, Channel 4 would not have advertised this with a full page ad in the Telegraph with the strapline 'Far-right Europe has a message for Middle England'. Nor would they have advertised in the Jewish Chronicle: 'Far-right Europe has a message for Jews'.
That doesn't mean [i]extremism[/i] doesn't exist. But unlike what "Jihadwatch" would tell you, most extremists are not Muslims and most Muslims are not extremists. Nor do most Muslims have a degree of extremism in them. Nor do most Muslims cover up their extremism. Nor do Muslims have more of a propensity to extremism than anyone else.
And why the hell did you link to "Jihadwatch" anyway?
bro until you've heard the entire speech, you cannot make the above statement about context.
if you have heard it in its entirety, please upload the video to youtube, or send us the mp3 so that we can decide for ourselves.
btw. hope your well bro, been a long time.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
well not necesserily..
words before or after "I'm going to kill you" can give it a toally different meaning all together. "He said, I'm going to Kill you" or "I'm going to kill you shouted the very bad man"..
quoted out of context demonstrated in the most simplistic form of course..
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
Love is a psychological sickness, and if it grows strong it affects the body, and becomes a physical sickness, either as diseases of the brain, which are said to be diseases caused by waswaas, or diseases of the body such as weakness, emaciation and so on. End quote.
exactly how http://www.sweetness-light.com wanted it to be understood..
I mean the following image kind of sets the scene the sweetness blog wants to set:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/97/266156833_abec76a6cf_o.jpg[/img]
without that image,
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ref=82941
although I would not have chosen that response, nor would I agree with everything it has to say, the writer has attempted to back up his claims using Hadiths.
The guy who wrote it cannot be incriminated under UK Law nor Islamic in my opinion.
But there is room for great discussion on the legitimacy of the Hadiths. Nothing more.
The overall message in the article you have posted Mark is basically saying, if you don't have the love of God inside you, it is unlikely you will understand what love is.
Mark thats a perfect example of how a single image can totally change ones interpretation of a message.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
that image scared me to tell the truth, so just what sort of fear will it put in non muslims?
[img]http://static.flickr.com/97/266156833_abec76a6cf_o.jpg[/img]
I am simply LOVING this image!! I am going to create some headlines to go with it.
the undercover mosque programme was scary at first glance....
but on reflection, it was clearly a load of old nonsense...
this is channel 4 we are dealing with....
they are, in general, The Sun, The Star, The Mirror, of tv channels...
lots of silly hype, with a small amount of truth thrown in....
all the sam......i didnt like the way some of those preachers seem to hate the UK....
are we really that bad???
remember most of us dont support that son of a bush in washington...
They Vote To Send Us To War Instantly.....But None Of Their Kids Serve In The Infantry...
POWER TO THE PEOPLE....
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