http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008135.php
Pope Benedict XVI met with envoys from several Muslim nations today, greeting them warmly and emphasizing the need for dialogue between the faiths. He did not offer another apology for his remarks at Regensburg two weeks ago, but he did remind the envoys that they have not fulfilled their responsibilities in ensuring freedom of religious practice for Christians:
Pope Benedict XVI told Muslim diplomats Monday that ''our future'' depends on dialogue between Christians and Muslims, an attempt to ease relations strained by his recent remarks about Islam and violence.
The pontiff quoted from his predecessor, John Paul II, who had close relations with the Muslim world, when he described the need for ''reciprocity in all fields,'' including religious freedom. Benedict spoke in French to a roomful of diplomats from 21 countries and the Arab League in his summer residence in Castel Gandolfo in the Alban Hills near Rome.
After his five-minute speech in a salon in the papal palace, Benedict greeted each envoy individually, clasping their hands warmly and chatting for a few moments with every one.
''The circumstances which have given risen to our gathering are well known,'' Benedict said, referring to his remarks on Islam in a Sept. 12 speech at Regensburg, Germany. He did not address those remarks at length. ...
Benedict cited John Paul II's statement that ''Respect and dialogue require reciprocity in all spheres,'' particularly religious freedom, a major issue for the Vatican in Saudi Arabia and other countries where non-Muslims cannot worship openly.
The Pope took exactly the right path in this meeting. He needs to ensure that paths to dialogue remain open and friendly between the Vatican and the various Muslim nations. However, the pontiff needs to start demanding a few points of his own, which he appears ready to do, in order to secure the rights of Christian minorities to practice their faith without interference.
These Muslim leaders that expressed such outrage over the Regensburg speech have little room for complaint. Human Rights Watch reported last year that the "Saudi religious police have continued to arrest and deport Christians for conducting private religious services. Saudi religious police continue to raid private homes where they suspect such services are taking place."
Egypt, Freedom House reports, "has done little to protect Egypt's ancient Christian community, by far the largest religious minority in the Middle East, and sometimes attacks them itself. No one was punished for the massacre of 21 Copts in the village of El-Kosheh four years ago. On March 23, the Coptic pope, Shenouda III, publicly condemned the escalating forced conversion of Christian girls, a major step since it is arguably illegal for him to criticize the government and he has previously been under house arrest for three years for doing so. In November 2003, security officials arrested 21 converts to Christianity, tortured several of them, and one died in custody."
Many other examples abound, and those outraged Muslim leaders should perhaps stop worrying about 600-year-old dialogues and tend to their own failings . Pope Benedict has remained steadfast on this point, and he should press the point by talking about the oppression of Christians in these countries more openly. If the Muslims want to stop people from talking about forced conversions, then perhaps they can be shamed into preventing them in the first place.
Reciprocity?
I would say that would be Muslim leaders not calling Jesus(as)'s actions evil, nor quoting without any qualifications someone who said so. in return for that the Pope will not call Prophet Muhammad
the final messenger of Allah 
or his actions evil, and not quote anyone to say so without qualifications.
I think that is a win win situation.
Anything more or less from one side only is not reciprocity.
Frankly the only thing I can see people agreeing on is that they will disagree, but respectfully.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Apparently 02Cute4U/Judda/TEX posted a reply in this topic.
Can the moderator who deleted it please PM me with the reason. (almost getting an earful, so I would like to give a reason...)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
But what has that got to do with the Pope's remarks?
I am not trying to be confrontational.
Nor do I disagree with the sentiment.
But I find the whole argument disingenuous. One topic is about responsible leadership, and the other about rights. they are different topics.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I would think that the right to worship would be part of responsible leadership. If muslims can worship in the west they should let christians worship in the east. That's fair and it is reasonable to expect it.
Salam
He wants equal and opposite reaction from Muslims.
But we do not insult other people's faith, even though it may be a load of rubbish.
Omrow
[b]EDIT: Mind your language ----------- Modnster [/b]
[b]EDIT[/b]
what!?
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
and do they need a reason :roll:
they just delete it anyway
makes no diff if they agree wid it or not
admins CUT DOWN on ur mods
or infact make me a mod
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
That is an issue of rights, NOT leadership.
Besides they DO hav the right to worship. AFterall muslims have been in those regions for over 14 centuries and there are still christians present. It's not like Spain where the entire heritage was eradicated.
and that is allowed. I want to know which Muslim country has banned christians from practising their faith?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
The only muslim countries I know of where there are Catholics are Iraq and Syria.
dont get me wrong there *is* religous freedom. but a muslim that chooses to convert to christianty (or any other religion for that matter) is usually killed - with no authority from the Quran - yet its done in the name of islam - so really there is not enough religious freedom...
w/salam
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
i've mentioned Saudi a while back...
no muslim, including those that live there have a right to say how the country is governed. The authorities do as they please.
You would not even believe the amount of injustice they do to their [i]own[/i] people. It makes me sick to my stomach.
With Saudi having a lot of Islamic history and because of hajj/umrah muslims generally tend to be in denial of what happens there, the place is unbelievably corrupt, its the type of place the devil would have a party.
In general, Saudi has too many problems and religious freedom is not on top of the list if you consider all the other problems and the gross injustice its people have to put up with.
PS i am still waiting for my apology from the coward that keeps deleting ma posts
Wasalam
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
You certain?
I did not know they banned christianity.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
dont be daft admin they can't "ban" the religion
the saudi law demands all Saudi cityzens R Muslims, it permits non-muslim visitors or foreign workers to live among and deal with Muslims except in certain areas (ie Makkah and Madina). The so-called morality coppers prohibit the public practice of other religions. The authorites claim to recognize the rights of non-Muslims to practice their religion in private; however it does not always respect this right in practice :roll: .
u shud know that bro....
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
I live in the UK.
I am not as clued up on world events as I sound.
I have a way in which I sound intelligent and knowledgeable. its fake.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
:shock:
i wish i had that!
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
For Admin: http://www.alleanzacattolica.org/acs/acs_english/acs_index.htm
What sickens me about Saudi is all the bloody ignorence...
Let there be no compulsion in religion 2:256
how can people be so bloody ignorent?
The Quran a constitution in saudi? :roll: :roll:
now that bloody makes me laff! :roll: :roll:
Admin did u know that one of the chief imams in Saudi said that the earth is flat and anybody who disagrees is an infidel? even tho the Quran tells us it is not flat 79:30
but it gets worse, MUCH WORSE....
however since i am from a saudi origin i dont think i will embarress my self by exposing anything else :oops:
wasalam
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]
yeah me too
and about time as well!
tru scholers have cancelled the word of god
even though god told us not too...
6:115 Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. [size=20]There is naught that can abrogate His words.[/size] He is the Hearer, the Knower.
18:27 And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. [size=20]There is none who can abrogate His words[/size], and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.
To abrogate the word of god only leaves inconsistencies in the religion.
I agree that something needs to be done... this problems just been round for too long.... it seriously takes the mick
[color=red]"The best of people are those who live longest and excel in their deeds, whereas the worst of people are those who live longest and corrupt their deeds." [Tirmidhî, Sahîh] [/color]