"zara" wrote:

so why do you have to put a dot between the letters?

Some Muslims have superstitious belief that if you say "pig" then your zabaan (conscious) goes paleeth (unpure) for 40 days.

ha ha, funny
i say pig, doesn't make a difference

and to seraphim,
why do you call osama that, he's a muslim brother?

"zara" wrote:

ha ha, funny
i say pig, doesn't make a difference

and to seraphim,
why do you call osama that, he's a muslim brother?

He kills innocents Muslims. And also women and kids. He breaks fundamental laws of Jihad.

he's only defending his country

"zara" wrote:

he's only defending his country

No that is not true. Zara dont post just for the sake of posting, have knowledge on what you speak about.

i'm not posting for the sake of it, i'm discussing something with Raj, it's rude to suddenly stop.

"zara" wrote:

he's only defending his country

His defending his country how?

His country is Saudi Arabia. What is he doing in Afghanistan bombing Pakistanis? or getting someone to fly planes into the twin towers. He thinks Islam spells 'lets act like cunts and blow shit up'

"Raj" wrote:

"zara" wrote:

he's only defending his country

His defending his country how?

His country is Saudi Arabia. What is he doing in Afghanistan bombing Pakistanis? or getting someone to fly planes into the twin towers. He thinks Islam spells 'lets act like cunts and blow shit up'

ok, i guess he is a pig terrorist.
is cunt a terrorist?

Come on people grow up.

Its not nice to twist names. You should all know that. It does not matter wether you like a person, but twisting names is just childish.

Quote:

but if someone insults someone else, then the person insulted has the right to insult back.. best to get it in quick before admin deletes it tho

I do not really have an issue with that. People will always fall out. I just want suybjects dropped at some point. No need to continue futile charades for pages.

LANGUAGE PEOPLE!!!

We occasionally get kids visiting this place!

We don't wanna teach them some new words... or make them think they are acceptable.

i came here to disagree with the title of this thread, but now i'm not so sure... :roll:

Some of the comments here are disgusting. Those of you who have the audacity to label the AwliyaALLAH as pigs etc are disgusting.

Islam has not been written save in the ink of the scholar and the blood of the martyr.

Those who got ants in their pants when I talked abt certain personalities do the same thing - just that the personalities they malign are acceptable to malign on this forum.

If ppl can stop me from chatting abt Tahir ul Qadri et al. cos it offends some - then as this is a NON-SECTARIAN forum - Im requesting the Mods to stop ppl from chatting bad words abt Usamah bin Ladin. Lets see how non-sectarian this place is.

"Med" wrote:

Some of the comments here are disgusting. Those of you who have the audacity to label the AwliyaALLAH as pigs etc are disgusting.

Islam has not been written save in the ink of the scholar and the blood of the martyr.

Those who got ants in their pants when I talked abt certain personalities do the same thing - just that the personalities they malign are acceptable to malign on this forum.

If ppl can stop me from chatting abt Tahir ul Qadri et al. cos it offends some - then as this is a NON-SECTARIAN forum - Im requesting the Mods to stop ppl from chatting bad words abt Usamah bin Ladin. Lets see how non-sectarian this place is.

Last i checked Dr. Qadri doesn't call for the killing of all 'Westerners' (regardless of whether they're civilians or not). i'm not even a minhajian but thats just common sense Med. You do realise that if Al-Qaeda were to attack the UK, they're not going to call you up and ask you to go for a holiday while they bomb the 'kuffar', right? you are as likely to be killed by OBL as anyone else.

yes, labelling anyone a 'pig' or whatever is childish, as admin said.

"*DUST*" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

Some of the comments here are disgusting. Those of you who have the audacity to label the AwliyaALLAH as pigs etc are disgusting.

Islam has not been written save in the ink of the scholar and the blood of the martyr.

Those who got ants in their pants when I talked abt certain personalities do the same thing - just that the personalities they malign are acceptable to malign on this forum.

If ppl can stop me from chatting abt Tahir ul Qadri et al. cos it offends some - then as this is a NON-SECTARIAN forum - Im requesting the Mods to stop ppl from chatting bad words abt Usamah bin Ladin. Lets see how non-sectarian this place is.

Last i checked Dr. Qadri doesn't call for the killing of all 'Westerners' (regardless of whether they're civilians or not). i'm not even a minhajian but thats just common sense Med. You do realise that if Al-Qaeda were to attack the UK, they're not going to call you up and ask you to go for a holiday while they bomb the 'kuffar', right? you are as likely to be killed by OBL as anyone else.

yes, labelling anyone a 'pig' or whatever is childish, as admin said.

And fitnah is worse than killing.

Im not getting into this debate.

EITHER this is non-sectarian - in which case we will see if Usama bin Ladin is not abused - or its actually a sectarian forum where certain so-called scholars are setup and other muslims are open to be targetted.

And there are other forum members who also will object to such words for Usamah bin Ladin h.

I dont want it to be that on the books it be written that I kept silent while a such words are used for such people.

"Med" wrote:

And fitnah is worse than killing.

Im not getting into this debate.

subhanAllah. if only you'd employ that attitude in all your discussions on this forum.

"Med" wrote:

EITHER this is non-sectarian - in which case we will see if Usama bin Ladin is not abused - or its actually a sectarian forum where certain so-called scholars are setup and other muslims are open to be targetted.

'sectarianism' = barelwis vs. deobandis vs. wahhabis vs. minhajis etc.
'Al-Qaeda' is not a sect of Islam, therefore criticism of OBL or his methods does not amount to sectarianism.

"Med" wrote:

And there are other forum members who also will object to such words for Usamah bin Ladin h.

i am one of them - i would object if the word 'pig' was used to describe anyone. it's not nice, and doesn't add anything to a person's argument.

"Med" wrote:

I dont want it to be that on the books it be written that I kept silent while a such words are used for [i]such people[/i].

so you're selective? you'll be quiet when a fellow muslim is sworn at, as long as its not the 'ulama or OBL?

minhaj ul "quran" is also not a sect - Im sure?

The point is simple - if one person cant be talked abt cos ppl get in a huff then another person shouldnt be talked abt either cos others find it offensive.

Anyways - I doubt it will have much effect but I really feel sorry for those who abuse those who sacrificed everything for the Religion. Certain people are making dunno how many laak of rupees and dress fancy and dont know jack about Islaam and are almost worshipped by their devotees - others are underweight, dwell in the forlorn places of earth, dress in the sunnah of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and sacrificed their wealth, themselves and their everything for the pleasure of ALLAH and they are abused as pigs.

Fitnah really has diseased the world too much.

"Med" wrote:

minhaj ul "quran" is also not a sect - Im sure?

The point is simple - if one person cant be talked abt cos ppl get in a huff then another person shouldnt be talked abt either cos others find it offensive.

Anyways - I doubt it will have much effect but I really feel sorry for those who abuse those who sacrificed everything for the Religion. Certain people are making dunno how many laak of rupees and dress fancy and dont know jack about Islaam and are almost worshipped by their devotees - others are underweight, dwell in the forlorn places of earth, dress in the sunnah of the Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and sacrificed their wealth, themselves and their everything for the pleasure of ALLAH and they are abused as pigs.

Fitnah really has diseased the world too much.

chill out!

"*DUST*" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

EITHER this is non-sectarian - in which case we will see if Usama bin Ladin is not abused - or its actually a sectarian forum where certain so-called scholars are setup and other muslims are open to be targetted.

'sectarianism' = barelwis vs. deobandis vs. wahhabis vs. minhajis etc.
'Al-Qaeda' is not a sect of Islam, therefore criticism of OBL or his methods does not amount to sectarianism..

People refer 'Usama bin Ladin' to a certain sect....hence is included, people of other sects have a inkling for this man addition to that and obviously if someones gonna go insulting criticising its gonna cause offense.Some should watch what they say..

"Med" wrote:

And there are other forum members who also will object to such words for Usamah bin Ladin h.

Yes i included

"nAS786" wrote:

regarding osama bin laden

when america supported him he was an hero, he was a saviour for the muslims, he was a gallant noble warrior who sacrificed millions of pounds to figth for what is right

when america stopped supporting him his a terrorist , a savage killer of innocent people, a beast , the devil himself

:?

get my point

personally i dont know enough about osama bin laden to form an unbiased opinion, the only source i have is the media,bush and blair and why should i believe them , why should you believe them, they all lie :evil:

well said

"nAS786" wrote:

regarding osama bin laden

when america supported him he was an hero, he was a saviour for the muslims, he was a gallant noble warrior who sacrificed millions of pounds to figth for what is right

when america stopped supporting him his a terrorist , a savage killer of innocent people, a beast , the devil himself

:?

get my point

personally i dont know enough about osama bin laden to form an unbiased opinion, the only source i have is the media,bush and blair and why should i believe them , why should you believe them, they all lie :evil:

So... you would have [i]preferred[/i] the Soviets stay in Afghanistan?

Osama is a terrorist because he crashed planes into major civilian areas with the intention of killing as many people as possible. He is also an enemy of the United States for that reason.

Where does it say you cannot judge the actions of another Muslim?

It almost seems like the idea is once you become a Muslim you moved up an echelon - congratulations you're better than everyone else. You will not be criticized, judged, held to any moral judgement by another...

hang on...

I was under the impression that Islam is a "way," something that promises if you follow these rules you're going to collect the pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow... so doesn't that mean being a Muslim is really like 10% of the job?

Yay! You agree upon the rules!

Now follow em.

Because you guys have rules ohhhhh I know you've got rules. BUNCHES of rules! Rules for just about everything, afterall you've said countless times Islam is supposed to be a complete way of life... if (that is) you follow it.

And if you follow the rules THEN you're doing okay, sure now you can walk about with your nose to everyone pontificating about your various virtues and perpetually placing yourself upon a pedestal.

Maybe then outside criticism and frank appraisals of your Muslimness thusfar aren't warranted since... well... you pretty much have this down.

But along the road to perfection?

Why wouldn't other Muslims be allowed to judge you, criticize you - maybe even insult you if you really messed up. Heck you might not even be a Muslim anymore if you start possessing bizarre ideas about "the rules" that the rest of Islam doesn't agree upon.

"Islam tells me that I can eat ham sandwichs"
"No it doesn't"
"Yes it does"
"Well maybe if you take out the ham"
"but then it isn't a ham sandwich"
"I rest my case"
"I am confused"
"That's okay just nod your head in agreement"

I mean can you still call yourself a Muslim - still [i]following Islam[/i] if you think it's a-okay to eat ham? or something more serious, if you think you can just cut the difference and pray to Allah and Vishnu (cover all those bases)? That's not part of Islam... hell it's counter to it, you're pretty much following your own game plan at that point.

So when you run around telling others "This is Islam" why shouldn't other Muslims say "uhhh... no," and maybe even go so far as to say "Dude... you believe some pretty weird stuff... you don't really follow any of the rules... basically you're not a Muslim" ??

So why should that be any different for Osama bin Laden? He not only doesn't follow the rules of Jihad - he makes em up as he goes! We're talking about a guy that thinks he is allowed to [Url=http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/4276.asp]kill 4 million[/url] americans including one million children because of US wars abroad...

Did I like miss that in the Qur'an somewhere? Maybe a Hadith that states "Deliberately execute child for child every one you lose against your enemies"

So if the guy 1. Has access to a Qur'an, 2. Choses not to play by the rules and 3. Decides that he can do a far better job making up the rules so... he does it

Why shouldn't Muslims judge him - challenge whether he even is a Muslim and even insult him? Should Muslims really pretend they are cool with this stuff because "he's a Muslim brother" and they have it on good authority that's a get out of jail free card and you can't say anything about it?

"nAS786" wrote:

and what proof have you got of that

[b]THE MEDIA [/b] :roll:

like i said i dont believe the media on bit,
there are thousands of conspiracy theories that make alotta of sense , Im sure you heard of them,

and if osama is a terrorist for supposebly killing thousands of civillians, then what is bush and blair for killing tens of thousands of innocent muslims in iraq and for supporting israel, all for one reason

[b]OIL[/b]

I dont wanna hear any crap about making democracy and all that , if they wanted to make countries democracy and protect innocent people what about zimbabwe, or the kongo, or other african nations in need of democracy and protecting from authoritarian leaders

i gaurantee if they had oil , american army would be the first people there

Well that is quite a little piece you've got there - allow me to borrow your soapbox for a minute.

Prove there is anything wrong with the media.

I really don't understand why you have an opinion about 9/11 at all... I mean it seems like it's a pretty clear line you are either fighting with us or you are standing in the way. Where are you Nas? You're in Britain right?

Whacha doing there? Fighting Americans? Fighting Terrorists? Are you really doing anything at all?

Who put you on the "how should we respond to this" committee? You weren't attacked... nobody you know was attacked... you didn't attack anyone... we already established you're not engaged in any part of the response, so... you're really just pontificating.

lol you go into this big long thing about the media and oil and you lay out all these things I must demonstrate to you before I get your blessing upon the War on Terror... why? I can't fire that at OBL, like why bother?

You already excluded even hearing about building democracy, so it's not even like you are looking for a conversation. So really what we've got is story time with Nas, who is going to bestow his various opinions of things upon us if we're really really lucky.

"nAS786" wrote:

well im not fighting with you , i do not support britain and i do not support bush wars on terror

so by that logic im the enemy :? , so go ahead shoot first and ask questions later , sound familiar :roll:

No that doesn't make you an enemy... actually it doesn't make you anything (that's pretty much my point). My question to you is as a bonafide genuine honest-to-God just like it says on the tin British dude with absolutely no connection [i]either way[/i] with regards to 9/11... why do you have such an... emphatic... opinion about it?

"I AM RIGHT YAY!! THE MEDIA IS EVIL 9/11 IS A HOAX!!!" I mean you certainly are drawing a lot of attention to yourself... like what possible reason do we have to visit the NAS SPEAKS kiosk today? What is your connection? Do you have opinions on other things that aren't connected to you?

Perhaps you could give me an appraisal on what I had for lunch this afternoon.. ?

lol you're demanding I give you "proof" and telling me what you will accept in terms of listening to me, and what you will not... so it's not a conversation... what's the reason for all this?

"nAS786" wrote:

Whacha doing there? Fighting Americans? Fighting Terrorists? Are you really doing anything at all?

I was born and bred in britain you fool, so if i dont agree with british foreign policies im not british, i should go join some terrorist organisation, you have a wierd way of thinking

Well... yea. If you have an opinion... and you want said opinion to matter, do something about it. I mean I could even take "I have opinions on British policies because I'm British duh" - but we're talking about something that isn't even policy in a country you've probably never even visited. lol That's roughly as random as me announcing Cinco de Mayo is a ridiculous holiday because I said so, and I shall not be entertaining anything that contradicts my edict.

"nAS786" wrote:

Who put you on the "how should we respond to this" committee

i cant have a opinion ok mr democracy

That's correct, you may not have an opinion.

"nAS786" wrote:

You weren't attacked... nobody you know was attacked

actaully tens of thousands of my brothers and sisters were attacked in iraq , i dont value anyones life above anyone elses

Right, that's Iraq. I'm sure you've got opinions on that, and as well you should at least there you have a connection.

But we're talking about 9/11 - more specifically we're talking about Osama bin Laden perpetrating 9/11. What possible connection do you have that even warrants this sacred opinion of yours which you are running around informing us of with great enthusiasm?

"nAS786" wrote:

You already excluded even hearing about building democracy, so it's not even like you are looking for a conversation

because its bs

Prove it.

"nAS786" wrote:

explain why america doesnt help zimbabwe achieve democracy, why doesnt america help the congo achieve democracy, why make up lies that saddam has weapens of mass destruction he can build a nuclear weapen in 45 minutes and then say no were fighting for democracy :roll:

Not talking about Democracy - it's not on the list of pre-approved discussion topics.

I can see a good debate going on at the moment.

The title of the thread is true then, but thats the spirit of the forum.

Debating and disagreeing has always been a tradition of the great scholars in the past. Imam AbuHanifah himself used to debate with other scholars. but when you debate it is important to remain in the circles of adab (Respect)

"Islamic Brother" wrote:

I can see a good debate going on at the moment.

The title of the thread is true then, but thats the spirit of the forum.

Debating and disagreeing has always been a tradition of the great scholars in the past. Imam AbuHanifah himself used to debate with other scholars. but when you debate it is important to remain in the circles of adab (Respect)

well said