"Med" wrote:

Admiring or condemning him shouldnt be based on the fact he had a young bride and a young son.

There is no link in my view between that and his executions and killing sprees.

A "young wife" is 20, a girl who just recently turned 13 is pedophilia.

"Vedeno" wrote:

Quote:

Haaaang on... 16 year old wife and 18 month son? 14 and a half?! What the hell is that about?!

Quote:

How anyone can admire this man is beyond my comprehension.

The Prophet (Saw) married Aisha (ra) when she was nine.

Do you have anything to say about that, fool?

We already know Daves views on the subject. You dont need to answer dave.

But FYI Vedeno bruv. Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam made nikah with Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha radhiyallahu anha at the age of 6,; She radhiyallahu anha was sent to His salallahu alayhi wa sallams household wen She reached 9.

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

Admiring or condemning him shouldnt be based on the fact he had a young bride and a young son.

There is no link in my view between that and his executions and killing sprees.

A "young wife" is 20, a girl who just recently turned 13 is pedophilia.

Thats your view.

"Vedeno" wrote:

Do you have anything to say about that, fool?

Can somebody please explain to our very new, very naive friend Vedeno why he doesn't want me to answer that question.

"Med" wrote:

Thats your view.

I'm right.

Quote:

Can somebody please explain to our very new, very naive friend Vedeno why he doesn't want me to answer that question.

Actually i do want an answer. And also - if anything you say is even in the slightest bit offensive to our beloved prophet then you should be banned straightaway.
Idiots shouldnt be tolerated on a Muslim forum.

"Vedeno" wrote:

Quote:

Can somebody please explain to our very new, very naive friend Vedeno why he doesn't want me to answer that question.

Actually i do want an answer. And also - if anything you say is even in the slightest bit offensive to our beloved prophet then you should be banned straightaway.
Idiots shouldnt be tolerated on a Muslim forum.

Vedeno bruv Dave is not a muslim. He doesnt agree with certain aspects of Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam's life and its best for us NOT to probe him on it because if he uses offensive language we are partly to blame. He hasnt commented on Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and we should respect his maturity in this regard.

Provoking him or wanting him to say some bad words abt Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam just so we can score a point on the forum or so we can get him banned is a low thing - we would be guilty of insulting Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam aswell in that case.

Hope its clear bruv.

"Don Karnage" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

Thats your view.

I'm right.

again Thats your view. :roll:

"Vedeno" wrote:

Quote:

Can somebody please explain to our very new, very naive friend Vedeno why he doesn't want me to answer that question.

Actually i do want an answer. And also - if anything you say is even in the slightest bit offensive to our beloved prophet then you should be banned straightaway.
Idiots shouldnt be tolerated on a Muslim forum.

Invitation accepted.

"Vedeno" wrote:

The Prophet (Saw) married Aisha (ra) when she was nine.

Do you have anything to say about that, fool?

It is criminal, unnatural, morally offensive and uncompromisingly disgusting. Something so horrible that I personally believe it warrants the death penalty.

Now, Vedeno should be banned since everyone very clearly understood my position on this before hand - he was informed, and he decided to push the issue anyway just to bring about a provocation since clearly I could not and would not answer any other way. I'm a polite person, which is why I do not discuss this issue ever, but challenging me like that requires a response. Clearly this is flamming.

Of course we all know he's going to get bored in about 3 weeks and be gone anyway so we can get back to our normal flow. It's not so much that idiots aren't tolerated - they just can't keep up and get bored.

Dave before you uttered your verbal diarrhea (sp) you shoulda waited for vedeno to respond to my post. How do u knw he aint read my post and understood the situation and left it? Now He's gonna understandably come back with a few curses on you and I dont blame him.

You lecture us abt criminal acts? thats the biggest joke cos those who associate Christ alayhis salaam with ALLAH are amongst the biggest criminals. :evil:

Med,

You seem to think an exchange of curses amounts to justice and to think tolerance for differences of belief is a grace on your part. That's a really nasty society we'd have.

"Med" wrote:

Dave before you uttered your verbal diarrhea (sp) [cs] you shoulda waited for vedeno to respond to my post. How do u knw he aint read my post and understood the situation and left it? Now He's gonna understandably come back with a few curses on you and I dont blame him.

I did not see your post, your efforts are noted and appreciated. You will note I spoke about the act not any particular individual - this to spare you any... upsetting. Not that it particularly matters, Vedeno is simply flamming; he brought this on himself so I'll leave him to work out his personal moral dillemnas for provoking me into insulting his religion.

"Med" wrote:

You lecture us abt criminal acts? thats the biggest joke cos those who associate Christ alayhis salaam with ALLAH are amongst the biggest criminals. :evil:

lol too forced Med. You have to make it seem more natural to have any effect. Not to mention you aren't tacitly defending a butcher like with Vedeno.

"The Great 100" wrote:

Med,

You seem to think an exchange of curses amounts to justice and to think tolerance for differences of belief is a grace on your part. That's a really nasty society we'd have.

lol let's not turn this into a free-for-all. Vedeno was flamming, I answered a direct challenge that's the end of this.

Alright then. Sorry Med.

[i]just read that Dave ended this topic and so I delete my post. [/i]

what is the point of comparing norms and values of the past to todays modern society?

back in the day it was "normal" for people to get married at a young age

my own grandma's got married at age 12/14 cos it was common in the culture of that time

even thought today-they're anti early marriages for their son/daughter and grandkids

its pathetic to measure norms/values of the past with ur own modern stanards

things change-what is acceptable today may become unnacceptable in 50 years time

only arogant people have an issue with tolerating differences of values/time/culture etc

All the same, LilSis, we have complaints that the West is debased from the same camp that allows men to "take" more than one wife pretty much however young. It is hard not to despise that.

[size=8]*EDIT 15:45 This topic's gonna run and run...*[/size]

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

what is the point of comparing norms and values of the past to todays modern society?

back in the day it was "normal" for people to get married at a young age

my own grandma's got married at age 12/14 cos it was common in the culture of that time

even thought today-they're anti early marriages for their son/daughter and grandkids

its pathetic to measure norms/values of the past with ur own modern stanards

things change-what is acceptable today may become unnacceptable in 50 years time

only arogant people have an issue with tolerating differences of values/time/culture etc

Thank you lilsis... I'll bare that in mind - but as you can see Med and I have wisely decided this issue is over. Not even Vedeno's inevitable attempts later are going to bring it back to life (note to vedeno, read that twice). So let's just leave it as is.

"The Great 100" wrote:

All the same, LilSis, we have complaints that the West is debased from the same camp that allows men to "take" more than one wife pretty much however young. It is hard not to despise that.

i dont dispute that

my parents wouldnt allow me to marry someone who was more then 5 years older then me

but at the same time-i know that a person is a product of their time/culture

100years ago this'd be a non issue as it was for my grandparents

I think we understand each other and you have a point. It is like Garrincha, that much admired Brazilian football player:

"[url=http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1282477,00.html wrote:

Josh Lacey[/url]"]One of his legs was two inches shorter than the other. He lost his virginity to a goat, slept with hundreds of women and sired at least 14 children. When he played for the Brazilian national team in the 1950s and early 60s, he scored 34 goals and won the World Cup twice. He killed his mother-in-law in a car crash, then died of drink. His name was Garrincha, and his exploits make Paul Gascoigne look like an amateur.

But I consider that a bit more forgivable on grounds it was one goat and one mother-in-law.

[code:1]Vedeno bruv Dave is not a muslim. He doesnt agree with certain aspects of Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam's life and its best for us NOT to probe him on it because if he uses offensive language we are partly to blame. He hasnt commented on Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and we should respect his maturity in this regard.

Provoking him or wanting him to say some bad words abt Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam just so we can score a point on the forum or so we can get him banned is a low thing - we would be guilty of insulting Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam aswell in that case.[/code:1]

Sorry bro , i think i should have read your post before responding.

However it seems that many of you have already heard this fools view on the topic and theyre offensive. Shouldnt he be banned anyway for insults to the prophet(saw)???

Insults against ourselves can be tolerated but not against the prophet (saw).

Salam

"Vedeno" wrote:

Sorry bro , i think i should have read your post before responding.

However it seems that many of you have already heard this fools view on the topic and theyre offensive. Shouldnt he be banned anyway for insults to the prophet(saw)???

Insults against ourselves can be tolerated but not against the prophet (saw).

Salam

May ALLAH put barakah in your imaan bruv. True we cannot tolerate insults against Sayyidina Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam but we need to get our heads straight abt what is an insult to Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam. ACTUALLY i think this is perfect for a new topic.

ALLAH khush farmay.

"The Great 100" wrote:

I think we understand each other and you have a point. It is like Garrincha, that much admired Brazilian football player:

[quote="[url=http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1282477,00.html]Josh Lacey[/url]"]One of his legs was two inches shorter than the other. He lost his virginity to a goat, slept with hundreds of women and sired at least 14 children. When he played for the Brazilian national team in the 1950s and early 60s, he scored 34 goals and won the World Cup twice. He killed his mother-in-law in a car crash, then died of drink. His name was Garrincha, and his exploits make Paul Gascoigne look like an amateur.

But I consider that a bit more forgivable on grounds it was one goat and one mother-in-law.[/quote]

i dont think this goat lover was the "norm" of that time

lame example :roll:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"The Great 100" wrote:

I think we understand each other and you have a point. It is like Garrincha, that much admired Brazilian football player:

[quote="[url=http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1282477,00.html]Josh Lacey[/url]"]One of his legs was two inches shorter than the other. He lost his virginity to a goat, slept with hundreds of women and sired at least 14 children. When he played for the Brazilian national team in the 1950s and early 60s, he scored 34 goals and won the World Cup twice. He killed his mother-in-law in a car crash, then died of drink. His name was Garrincha, and his exploits make Paul Gascoigne look like an amateur.

But I consider that a bit more forgivable on grounds it was one goat and one mother-in-law.

i dont think this goat lover was the "norm" of that time

lame example :roll:[/quote]

In rural Brazil, yes it was. This was on telly the other day, he was perfectly open about it.

"mrs" wrote:

Indeed we belong to Allah and to Him is our return

Hey mrs, nice to see you.

How's married life?

"Vedeno" wrote:

The Prophet (Saw) married Aisha (ra) when she was nine.

Do you have anything to say about that, fool?

wouldn't be too sure about that..

Quote:

Research subsequent to the time of Maulana Muhammad Ali has shown that she was older than this. An excellent short work presenting such evidence is the Urdu pamphlet Rukhsati kai waqt Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa ki umar (‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’) by Abu Tahir Irfani.[url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm#_ftn4a][4a][/url] Points 1 to 3 below have been brought to light in this pamphlet.

1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm#_ftn5][5][/url]

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.” [url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm#_ftn6][6][/url]

[url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age-mish.htm](Go here to see an image of the full entry in Urdu.)[/url]

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:

“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.” [url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm#_ftn7][7][/url]

Apart from these three evidences, which are presented in the Urdu pamphlet referred to above, we also note that the birth of Aisha being a little before the Call is consistent with the opening words of a statement by her which is recorded four times in Bukhari. Those words are as follows:

“Ever since I can remember (or understand things) my parents were following the religion of Islam.” [url=http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm#_ftn8][8][/url]

Read more: http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

[b]EDIT: This thread is getting out of hand and, may I add add, off-topic. Khan's last post of a scholarly opinion is a good point at which to lock it. Lets leave it to the scholars if we can't learn how play nice. ------------ Modnster [/b]