"MuslimSister" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

And she would have been in the right if she wanted a divorce.

An aunty I know married a guy and he used to beat her. Understandably, she couldn’t live with such a heartless monster.

So, whilst he doesn’t live with her he refuses to give her a divorce. Islamically, of course she has a right to seek for a Khula (separation).

But what happens when men out of spite refuse to give it?

I'm sure women are not obliged to stay with heatless men who treat them like dirt and refuse to give them divorce too. I've never asked anyone about this....it be useful to know though.

This is a very complex issue.

If a woman is adamant that she wants release then she may sue for khula in which the wife agrees to return her dowry to husband in lieu of being granted her divorce. This is khula.

If a husband refuses to grant khula then a number of things have to be considered. If the husband and wife are living together and it is clear that the husband is fulfilling her rights - eg food, shelter, clothing, maintenance - and the wife just for a random reason sues for khula and husband refuses then no alim on earth has jurisdiction to annul the marriage. This is because the husband is fulfilling his obligations. There are cases where ''shariah'' courts annul marriages, but in the eyes of shariah these are not valid if the stringent conditions for annulment are NOT met.

Now, if husband is neglecting his responsibilities to wife - eg stays away from her and refuses her divorce - then the wife sues for khula. In this case the Qadhi/ Board of Ulama are to mediate. The husband is given two choices - 1 is to grant her divorce by the medium of khula, 2nd is to agree to fulfill her rights. In this instance if the husband says I will fulfill her rights then the ulama/qadhi has NO JURISDICTION and cannot force him to divorce her in lieu of the mahr.

Unfortunately many people today are under the impression that the ''annulments'' that are granted by mosque committees, and by inexperienced ulama today are valid and the nikah ahs broken. REMEMBER if the husband agrees to fulfill his wifes rights but the ulama issue an annulment then the annulment paper is not worth anything at all. By the shariah if he agrees to fulfill her rights then no outsider can do anything, ESSENTIALLY nikah is the choice of the woman, and talaaq is the choice of the man.

"Admin" wrote:

Secondly, Hadhrat Umar (RA), the second Caliph would not keep soldiers away from home for longer than 4 months at a time, as that would annull their marriages...

"Aasiyah" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

Secondly, Hadhrat Umar (RA), the second Caliph would not keep soldiers away from home for longer than 4 months at a time, as that would annull their marriages...

r u sure about that^?

Admin brother that is not true.

Staying away from wife for more than 4 months DOES NOT annul the marriage. The action of Sayyidina Ameerul Mumineen Umar radhiyallahu anhu was in light of the rights of wife. This was due to the ruling of Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa radhiyallahu anha that the husband may not be away from wife for more than 4 months without her first granting permission.

No mufti, alim, faqeeh or qadhi has ever said absence of more than 4 months is resulting in an annulled marriage. EDIT according to my knowledge

yup.

Came up when studying the tafsir of Surah Baqarah... The person teaching me gave me this nugget.

However, I may have not interpreted it correctly.

"musk" wrote:

Staying away from wife for more than 4 months DOES NOT annul the marriage. The action of Sayyidina Ameerul Mumineen Umar radhiyallahu anhu was in light of the rights of wife. This was due to the ruling of Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa radhiyallahu anha that the husband may not be away from wife for more than 4 months without her first granting permission.

Probably an error in my understanding then...

However Med; even if the man says no, the woman can still be divorced if she wants it.

Why do you say its only his right to grant it, and not her right to recieve it?

"Admin" wrote:

Divorce can be granted through court.

What kind of court?

I've heard that Regents Park Mosque (the main mosque in London) does this kind of stuff.

But it be worth asking the qualified scholars about this matter.

I've heard of cases when the guy wasnt giving a divorce to his wife out of spite and used to beat her...the girls fathers/brothers or uncles have beat the guy to get him to sign the papers.

It shouldnt have to come to that.

Because we obey the law of the land, any civil court could do. (Don't quote me though... that is a guess.)

A 'shariah court' should have scholars in it should it not?

"Admin" wrote:

However Med; even if the man says no, the woman can still be divorced if she wants it.

Why do you say its only his right to grant it, and not her right to recieve it?

No. Thats not what I have been taught. By us, a woman can either be divroced by the husband or the marriage is annulled. Khula is again where the woman is DIVORCED by the husband, its just that she has to give him something in order to obtain it. Please kindly explain how a woman can be divorced if the husband refuses to divorce her.

I readily accept the marriage can be annulled, but kindly explain how a woman can be divorced if he refuses to divorce her. I dont claim to know the masaa'il of divorce in any detail and so am unaware of this aspect. Your help will be appreciated bro.

Secondly there is a difference in talaq for the man and woman. I was under the impression that firsly a man cannot be divorced, never in my lessons have I ever heard of a man being divorced. Thats one difference.
Second difference is if a man refuses to say divorce then the woman wont be divorced, she can get out of the marriage in other ways but she cannot be divorced if he refuses to say the words or write them. Third difference is that if a man divorces her then her accepting the words or not makes not a fig of difference, the marriage is over. She can be divorced without accepting it, but she cannot get a divorce without HIM agreeing to it.

"Admin" wrote:

Because we obey the law of the land, any civil court could do. (Don't quote me though... that is a guess.)

Nice. lol.

Can a man refuse to take back the mahr?

I did not think so... But as Med is of diferent stance that me...

According to the Quranic verse, I doubt it, but tis for interpretation by Qadi's, and not me.

Well according to jamaat-e-Islami:

http://www.jamaat.org/qa/khula.html

First question is similar to the one asked before. however the asnwer to the second question goes into more detail.

Quote:

The second question is also of khula’, only that the case is processed in a UK/US court. If during the process the husband has agreed to leave his wife, conditions notwithstanding, then it is done. No more divorce process is needed;

[b]When the woman demands divorce (through khula’) then the husband has to agree finally, whether he wants or not.[/b] That is why the courts’ intervention is provided.

That also allows using civil courts.

Aaaah I see.

Yes the man can refuse to take back the mahr. If it was that a woman wants a divorce and it was as easy as her just returning the mahr and he necessarily having to accept it then she might aswell have the power to say talaq talaq talaq and end it.

The man is not obligated to take the mahr back, he cannot be forced to divorce her.

I dont know any more abt this issue and so maintain silence. I may be wrong but this was what I believed or understood.

The Jama'at begs to differ

(and no, lets not turn this into a slaggign match...)

They say he HAS to grant the divorce.

k no slagging match.

I will just say I cant even claim to know even a little abt the issues of divorce. What I wrote bove was according to what I have understood, it is entirely possible that I have misunderstood the issue.

I seek ALLAH's forgiveneess for the sins of my soul.

"Admin" wrote:

Well according to jamaat-e-Islami:

http://www.jamaat.org/qa/khula.html

First question is similar to the one asked before. however the asnwer to the second question goes into more detail.

Quote:

The second question is also of khula’, only that the case is processed in a UK/US court. If during the process the husband has agreed to leave his wife, conditions notwithstanding, then it is done. No more divorce process is needed;

[b]When the woman demands divorce (through khula’) then the husband has to agree finally, whether he wants or not.[/b] That is why the courts’ intervention is provided.

That also allows using civil courts.

"it is her right to seek separation through Khul` , i.e. to waive her financial rights, such as the maintenance and return to him all what he has given her as mahr (dowry). Hence, either the husband gives her divorce or [b]the Judge will have to separate her from her husband with one irrevocable divorce. So there is no place for confusion and perplexity.[/b]

[url=http://www.islam-online.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-Engli... Online[/url] states that in some instances, even the judge can give divorce.

k.

thats gud she stayed with him.

But whats the limit that beyond that a woman just could not stay married to a man?

From some people I seen that he can do anything and she wont leave him, period. Its just not an option.

One of my cousins got married recently. Both he and his mrs were married to people before. Apparently his mrs was married to her cousin from back hom, once he got to uk, he told his wife that I didnt want to marry u, I wanted to marry ur sister. She decided she cudnt live with him and told him to do one.

Now, if u saw my cousin and sister in law, u knw both he and HER made the right decision. They soo happy that I cant describe it. Wish em the best.

"musk" wrote:

thats gud she stayed with him.

I would not say it was good that she stayed with him.

I would say its good that she thought about her kids...

And Mashallah, if things eventually work out (albeit after several eons), who am I to be an armchair critic?

"white" wrote:

then again everyones different innit.

True.

I'm glad your aunty and uncle worked out their differences in the end. However, not everyone is like that.

Wife beating has negative psychological effect on kids. Some mums choose to leave solely for that reason.

I can’t even begin to imagine what I’d think of dad if he ever raised his hand to mum.

Everyone's level of tolerance is different. Many women today can not tolerate their husbands beating them. And I think its wrong to think less of them for not taking such abuse...

"white" wrote:

just want to know if a guy in a upset state says talaq to his wife 3 times in a row..then regrets ,

are all three taken as 1....( heard they are )

NO NO NO NO NO NO!

They are taken as THREE divorces. Only Imam Ibn Taymiyyah alayhi rahmah and his subsequent followers called it one divorce. The VAST MAJORITY say it is three divorces.

According to hanafi fiqh, it is three divorces. The marriage is broken irrevocably. There is not way they can remain together without halaalah taking place.

Three talaq at ONE sitting are THREE divorces.

I do not know about ahadeeth. The ruling according to hanafi madhab is that if he says talaaq talaaq talaaq then the marriage is over, period.

Naj ask ur brother! He'll tell u.

lol.

Rest assured. It is three divorces. Well Im certain.

I am also pretty certain it is counted as three.

^^^
READ THAT NAJ