"musk" wrote:

"MuslimSister" wrote:

As you prob know, there was a woman in the time of the Holy Prophet who didn’t have an issue with the deen and the character of the man she had wed but she just couldn’t love him...the Holy prophet didn’t tell her to "stick it out" or that she'd gain "more respect" if she did. He simply told her to return the garden that was given to her return Mahr...and ask for a divorce.

kindly provide further details.

The kitab which contains this incident will be enough.

It wasnt derived from a Kitab.

Ive heard this incident mentioned many times. Most recently in a study circle led by a Shaykh early this year along with his explanation.

Edit; I found the hadith in the internet.

Bukhari 63:198 Narrated By 'Ikrima: The sister of 'Abdullah bin Ubai narrated (the above narration, 197) with the addition that the Prophet said to Thabit's wife, "Will you return his garden?" She said, "Yes," and returned it, and (then) the Prophet ordered Thabit to divorce her. Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The wife of Thabit bin Qais came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I do not blame Thabit for any defects in his character or his religion, but I cannot endure to live with him." On that Allah's Apostle said, "Will you return his garden to him?" She said, "Yes."

thank you.

No1 asked abt how many times u herd it or by who but ur additional info was very nice.

Thank you for the reference.

Perhaps when quoting such incidents, we are all grateful for it, but perhaps you could provide atleast one section of a relevant sharah. subhanallah if this is Bukhari hadeeth then there are 18 well known commentaries on The Saheeh, so a short extract of the sharah would be even better. mashaALLAH.

Dnt wanna go confusing simple souls like me.

"musk" wrote:

Dnt wanna go confusing simple souls like me.

false modesty is not the way of the sincere

and no No1 asked me i'm giving an opinion it is allowed on this forum

"seema*" wrote:

"musk" wrote:

Dnt wanna go confusing simple souls like me.

false modesty is not the way of the sincere

and no No1 asked me i'm giving an opinion it is allowed on this forum

theres nothing false about it.

I aint ever read a hadeeth kitab without an ustaad present or without a relevant commentary present. I feear to read hadeeth without the commentary, so no, nothing to do with modesty.

I like spaghetti too

"musk" wrote:

thank you.

No1 asked abt how many times u herd it or by who but ur additional info was very nice.

Thank you for the reference.

Perhaps when quoting such incidents, we are all grateful for it, but perhaps you could provide atleast one section of a relevant sharah. subhanallah if this is Bukhari hadeeth then there are 18 well known commentaries on The Saheeh, so a short extract of the sharah would be even better. mashaALLAH.

Dnt wanna go confusing simple souls like me.

The Hadith is from Sahih Bhukhari and pretty self-explanatory, whats confusing you?

"Angel" wrote:

The Hadith is from Sahih Bhukhari and pretty self-explanatory, whats confusing you?

Whats confusing to me is what the hadeeth means in detail and also what the fiqh is.

See I aint a muhaddith, I dont read hadeeth - no matter how apparently clear they are - without an alim present or without a commentary.

But is it self explanatory? There are so many other things that need to be taken into account, I aint a salafi so I dnt just pick up hadeeth kitabs without som1 guiding me.

This is my personal practice, hope no1s got a problem with it.

"musk" wrote:

But is it self explanatory? There are so many other things that need to be taken into account, I aint a salafi so I dnt just pick up hadeeth kitabs without som1 guiding me.

Muslimsis didnt just pick it up either, it was a Shaykh that explained it for them at a study circle. What has salafi's got to do with readin up a Hadith :roll: boy u love everyone dont u!

"musk" wrote:

This is my personal practice, hope no1s got a problem with it.

I DO :x

You should have asked for my permission FIRST!

[size=7]...the nerve[/size]

[size=3]I think the hunger is getting to my brain[/size]

so what are you saying Musk are you doubting the validity of it or you are doubtful of the posters interpretation

if thats the case then why not say that - why go round the houses now you're confusing me

mashaALLAH like I said I am happy for her that she heard it so many times and has been taught it even.

I only requested that perhaps a short commentary would be good aswell.

No biggie.

And about salafis, what have i said so bad abt them?

Actually y'knw what, dnt answer that. I knw if i'v got issues with groups or not.

As far as Im concerned this is a non-issue.

[size=7]Thanks to aasiyah I can't get the song "I want it that way" outta my head.[/size]

"seema*" wrote:

so what are you saying Musk are you doubting the validity of it or you are doubtful of the posters interpretation

if thats the case then why not say that - why go round the houses now you're confusing me

Please try being objective for once.

I have not commented AT ALL on the hadeeth.

I requested a referece, it was kindly provided. I further stated that a commentary would have been useful.

If someone is trying to draw me into commenting on the hadeeth then i seek ALLAH's refuge in this, I cannot comment on the hadeeth in any way shape or form.

I simply requested a reference and followed this by suggesting perhaps a commentary would be good.

Calm down everyone.

"musk" wrote:

And about salafis, what have i said so bad abt them?

i dont know i dont even know what they are. i didnt know you had said anything about them

Allah Hafiz

"musk" wrote:

mashaALLAH like I said I am happy for her that she heard it so many times and has been taught it even.

I only requested that perhaps a short commentary would be good aswell.

No biggie.

And about salafis, what have i said so bad abt them?

What you say bout them dont concern me but what has readin up on Ahadith got to do with salafi's, i just dont understand!

"Angel" wrote:

"musk" wrote:

mashaALLAH like I said I am happy for her that she heard it so many times and has been taught it even.

I only requested that perhaps a short commentary would be good aswell.

No biggie.

And about salafis, what have i said so bad abt them?

What you say bout them dont concern me but what has readin up on Ahadith got to do with salafi's, i just dont understand!

My point was I personally dont read ahadeeth without an ustaad or without a commentary. At this point the hadeeth was quoted by someone, that person just quoted the hadeeth and then provided a reference when I asked for one. Now, what I am saying is that people can quote hadeeth to me left right and centre and I wont know which way to turn, I aint like the salafis who just find a hadeeth and then follow it withou understanding, I simple wanted to make the point that personally I never rely just on a hadeeth, I have it explained either by alim or by sharah.

End of discussion on my behalf.

"musk" wrote:

The kitab which contains this incident will be enough.

obvioulsy the "kitaab" wsnt enough otherwise u wouldnt have asked for the commentary :roll:

well it shud be obvious that Med hasnt had the hadith explained to him by his teachers

and its not enough for others in this forum to say that they have-

it might be a good idea for him to take this hadith to his teachers and have them explain it to him

maybe then he could say sumin to the men in his family who beat, cheat and treat their women like crap

and the women who take it

instead of standing there and bigging up the fact that the women quietly take it

u shud also inform the unmarried men in ur family who also have psycho like tendencies that marraige is HARAAM for the ones who know that they will mistreat their partner

dogs who treat their partners like crap shud fear God-and shud be worried about their sisters, daughters too

what goes around comes around

That probably one of ur best comments lilsis. I agree, the lack of respect and mistreatment shown to ur partner, will have a continue effect and in these case where more harm is being done then good, it best to leave alone. I think too many people are too caught up in controlling their partners rather then influencing them which can be done by creating a environment for mutual respect and understanding. The sister and daughter example is a very good one to follow, even though many don't. Marriage should only ever be undertaken when both side are ready and want it too be the case. Marrying for convience isn't a good excuse. I believe taqwa in both partners is the single most important aspect before marrying, which the parent should try to instill in their children.

"yuit" wrote:

I believe taqwa in both partners is the single most important aspect before marrying, which the parent should try to instill in their children.

Thats true, if the parents have the relevant characteristics then they can pass them on to the children.

I somehow dont see a guy who aint bothered about his wife to be bothered in anyway for his childern. I think thats one of the worse things that can happen, where a guy gets married for the sake of pleasing his mother and has children and leaves his wife.

I feel in this soicety it is hard for a divorced women to re-marry due to the ignorance of people which is totally disgusing but a divorcee having kids makes it even more harder. It saddens me to see people who reject proposals becuz a girl is divorced as they are ignorin the example which was set by our Holy Prophet Muhammad for the benefit of his ummah.

"white" wrote:

"MuslimSister" wrote:

As you prob know, there was a woman in the time of the Holy Prophet who didn’t have an issue with the deen and the character of the man she had wed but she just couldn’t love him...the Holy prophet didn’t tell her to "stick it out" or that she'd gain "more respect" if she did. He simply told her to return the garden that was given to her return Mahr...and ask for a divorce.

Today if a woman seeks a divorce she is looked down upon.

our prophet mohammed s.a.w spoke of divorce as being "The most hateful of all lawful things" in the eyes of god and said that when it does take place it should be done in an atmosphere of good will,

the main point being that divorce should only be sought in the most unavoidable circumstances....

reminds me of my khala, she took it ALL from her husband beatings what not...she had 8 kids with the man, things are just looking arite between the two now, she never considered divorcing him.

its been emphasised divorce should only be sought when theres no other alternative to the problem

yes

"white" wrote:

our prophet mohammed s.a.w spoke of divorce as being "The most hateful of all lawful things" in the eyes of god and said that when it does take place it should be done in an atmosphere of good will,

the main point being that divorce should only be sought in the most unavoidable circumstances....

No one refute's that.

However "unavoidable circumstances" are debatable. Some think that even beats and cheating are not a good reason to seek divorce whilst others may disagree.

"white" wrote:

i dont think this hadeeth is self-explanatory..this is confusing me

Then feel free to ask a qualified scholar to explain it to you.

"white" wrote:

the main point being that divorce should only be sought in the most unavoidable circumstances....

Yeh that is true but Islam also looks down on those men who beat their wives up and seek confort from them at night.

Men who beat their wives up are not worthy of havin a wife, its not easy to have a divorce while you have kids but i think it is unfair that a woman has to put up with this because she has fear that she wont have a male in her household, what use is a male who thinks it is ok to beat his wife up? What kinda role model can this man be to his children?!

Divorce is a horrible thing but there are certain sitations where it is unavoidable and necessary for the protection of that person and children if applicable.

White your aunt wet through hell. She did not have to.

She will be rewarded for her perseverence. Her husband punished for his actions... (if its how you tell it...)

And she would have been in the right if she wanted a divorce.

"Admin" wrote:

And she would have been in the right if she wanted a divorce.

This is where I disagree. No matter what, divorce is only last option, this is what I have been taught. Even if the woman has been indiscreet then even the man must not divroce her if there is possibility of making the marriage work.

Hence, in our understanding, if a woman marries a man and she hopes to marry another at a later stage, realistically speaking its only gonna happen after he dies and she becomes a widow. The chances of woman getting a divorce or even suing for divorce will not happen because of the way we have been taught.

Hence, marriage is for life really. Hope everyone bes happy with whoever they end up.

"Admin" wrote:

And she would have been in the right if she wanted a divorce.

An aunty I know married a guy and he used to beat her. Understandably, she couldn’t live with such a heartless monster.

So, whilst he doesn’t live with her he refuses to give her a divorce. Islamically, of course she has a right to seek for a Khula (separation).

But what happens when men out of spite refuse to give it?

I'm sure women are not obliged to stay with heatless men who treat them like dirt and refuse to give them divorce too. I've never asked anyone about this....it be useful to know though.

"musk" wrote:

This is where I disagree. No matter what, divorce is only last option, this is what I have been taught. Even if the woman has been indiscreet then even the man must not divroce her if there is possibility of making the marriage work.

In that situation given by Naj, the woman had a full right to ask for divorce, that is why woman are given this right, why should u have to put up with an abusive/violent husband? that aint part of the marriage contract!

Divorce can be granted through court.

Secondly, Hadhrat Umar (RA), the second Caliph would not keep soldiers away from home for longer than 4 months at a time, as that would annull their marriages...

I do not know where that stands in the bigger picture though... I would assume that if a marriage is not consumated it is almost null, but not void until it has been verbally declared so.