salaam
well xmas is round the corner....so what role do Muslims play?
do we send xmas cards to our work colleagues in a way of dawah?
do we say happy xmas in order to be courteous?
do we take part in xmas dinner at school, college, uni, work?
do we give xmas presents to non muslim friends, work colleagues?
the question is: to what extent are we allowed to take part in xmas celebrations?
Yes we dont celebrate xmas, we dont have a xmas tree, we dont have the lights in our house, we dont do the prezzies, the turkey(can we?), the xams parties etc....
but what can we do?
should we do nothing at all?
is anything to do with xmas haram, non islamic, imitation of the kufaar?
what about new years day? new years resolutions?
where do we draw the line?
your views pls
wasalaam
Ed, are you looking for another big argument?
Remember what happened in the old forum?
who's looking for an argument?
which of the above questions are asking for an argument?
if any one wants to argue that is up to them?
above are crucial questions which face us all....
Largely, christmas is no longer a religeous tradition except amonghst catholics, but other wise even for a lot odf Christians its a reason to spread good cheer, to be happy, to give presents.
For shops its a reason to hold sales and to drill consumerism.
For muslims, it depends, there are the 'Bah! Humbug!' types and there are those who used to give me Christmas cards.
I like those cards, particularly hand made ones (I think every child should be allowed to make some sort of greeting card with glitter and 'shiny paper', I'd forgotten how much I love 'shiny paper'..nostalgia), if people give me a card, I take it as a gift and hang on to it for a month or so.
Giving them out though? well we don't believe (I don't anyway) Hazrat Isa
AS was born on that day. I believe the church moved that mass to that day to coincide with the Yule festival and thus dupe the pagans into mixing with the Christians.
Do any of us here celebrate Yule or venerate deities beside Allah SWT, I don't think so matey!
However we do all get holidays and find everyone around us atypically happy, and so we shouldn't put a downer on them, I see no problem with sending a card saying 'season's greetings' but 'Merry Christmas' I don't know.
Fairy lights are cool, end of, we have them in our house all year round.
"the question is: to what extent are we allowed to take part in xmas celebrations?"
I see nothing wrong with a Christmas dinneer, seeing as most of us rarely eat anything other than indian cuisine.
"what about new years day? new years resolutions?
where do we draw the line?"
New years resolutions should be made to coincide with the Islamic new year, But we can start preparing for them with the other New Year.
Salaam.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
Ed... i think what needs to be addressed is: wats the harm in giving out xmas cards... having a tree with pretty lights and covered in cheap tinsel?
So my response to your question is: Whats the harm if they do celebrate xmas?
Back in BLACK
Salam
Ifran hates questions because he is incapable of thinking for himself.
Therfore, ignoraing him, I would say that Christmas is a Muslims as well as Christian festival. Jesus is common to both faiths.
And, as Seraph correctly pointed out, that as long as Islamic values are not violated, there is nothing wrong in taking in the festive celebrations.
God will not be upset if we send a card to another person wishing them a happy time.
Omrow
wait a min didnt i start a thread on xmas already???
wheres that gone?
Back in BLACK
Muslims are not allowed to celebrate 'Christmas'.
'christmas' is a christian celebration, that has been comercialised.
Muslims can celebrate the birth oProphet Isa (as), but nt under the guise of christmas.
Celebrating under the guise of christmas means we accept the modern christian doctrine. We do not.
However there is nothing wrong with telling christians to have a merry xmas.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Isn't that not what Master Seraph has said ?
He asked a question.
IMO having a christmasn tree is not allowed for muslims. It is a religious tradition passed either from christians or pagans.
Either way t has a religious significance, so is not allowed.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
im sorry but maybe my biblical understanding is rusty...
but where in christian doctrine does it say:
"Thou shalt bring a tree into thy hut and decorate it with shiny,sparkly tinsel and such crap. After wich you'll hand out cards wishing people well"
Ive never come across that and if it is there ive never seen it...
Back in BLACK
why should anyone celebrate exams? (look at the title...)
the tree is from a pagan festival before christianity. It signified life or something... I cannot remember.
It also probably has a significance in christianity.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Salam
Boss. I hate to correct you, but tree is from God.
Pagans only dressed it up.
And there is nothing wrong with dressing a tree.
Omrow
xactly...
the tree dressing is not part of christian doctrine or mentioned in the bible but is a piece of import... i rest my case....
and yes we did notice the title...
Back in BLACK
So it is an important of the christian festivities? So muslims should not do it then.
Leave the tree in the forrest.
We are not allowed to harm trees just for the sae of it
:twisted:
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
What about cheap, fake plastic tree's?
:twisted:
Salam
Cutting down real ones ?
No. Plastic ones are not harmed.
Boss. We are talking about faking it, with the tree.
Omrow
im sorry but what are you're floor boards made out of??? whats your chair and dining table made from??
wood.... thats right WOOD!!!! And where does wood come from??? Trees???
So its okay to have wood in the house just not the tree itself... hhhmmm do i sense ur prejudice towards trees... but not the fruits of their labour?
All things placed on the earth e.g. animals, plants etc are there created by God for our use. And to what effect would you deny the word of God??
Back in BLACK
Salam
Ok everyone. Please lay off the boss.
Respect is respect
He ought to be treated as being right
Even when we know he is incorrect
Omrow
I said for the sake of it.
Using wood for stuf thatis necessary is good. But wasting it is not.
And plastic trees can kill. INSTANT inferno.
But it is still a christian tradition associated with christians.
If you saw someone decorating a tree in their homes, what religion would you assume they were? Christian.
Just as we are not allowed to dress like the pope, we are not allowed christmas trees.
[EDIT]
Omrow i do not need special priviledges. However I believe I am right.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Woh what are you saying that its wasteful? Im sorry but dont they actually use it for something? They decorate it etc they're not worshiping it. And if decorating is wrong... then why bother decorating anything?
The tradition may be originally associated with Christians... but as christmas has little to do with Christianity these days then why is it not the same for the "imported" tradition of having a decorated tree?
Plastic trees are just tacky.
Why arent we allowed to dress like the pope? With all-due-respect to him.. he aint the messiah.
Believeing your right and proving it are two different things.
Back in BLACK
You go Seraph!!
Who is the cat of the Forum? MEZ!
Your damn right!
It is still associated with christianity. It does not matter if it has become commercial.
If eid became comercial (like it is is in muslim countries), would that break the link with Islam? No.
In the same way, christmas is still a christian festival. Celebrating it is just like praying at an altar in a church.
And the use of the tree is just the same as the use of leather. If the animal is to be consumed, you use the leather. However you cannot just kill the animal just for the leather.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
u ever wore leather gloves/socks?
No.
You can kill an animal for consumption, and then use the skin. But you cannot kill an animal, use the skin, and discard the rest.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Leather shoes?
u MUST have
Shoes I have.
Not socks or gloves.
Now the shoes I have worn have not been snakeskin/aligatorskin/wolfskin etc...
I am pretty sure the animal has been a consumable.
You know. eat the meat, use the skin?
I am not against the use of leather, but where it comes from.
You cannot kill an animal just for the leather IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I've worn leather shoes in the past too
and never worn any of the above either incl; fur, tiger skin etc
but we cant know for sure if the animal was consumed
trillions of shoes are made every year
We cannot know for sure, but can try to avoid the non-cnsumable animals...
if it is a consumable animal, I cannot see the businessman throwing away the opportunity to make a buck from the meat...
But back to topic... similar thing for wood. You should not just waste it.
But that is secondary to the fact that christmas is a christian festival. It should remain christian, and celebrated by christians.
Muslims can celebrate the birth of Prophet Isa (as), but not as christians.
And we should not lie to kids to make them believe in santa.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
true - i agree with Admin
christmas is still meant 2b a part of christianity even though nowadays the so-called christians dnt know anything bout christianity themselves...yes christmas has become wayyyyyy 2 materialistic and 4 commercial purposes but its still linked 2 christianity
Jewish, Mormon, Hindu.
If I saw someone decorating a Christmas tree in their own home I would change the channel and look for something with a bit of action.
I would only think Christian if they were holding long candles in church or something.
The tree was never Christian, today were are realizing it, just like Santa is now trademark of Coca Cola, doesn't mean he belongs to them.
That little bit of information might have been useful a few months ago when I was back in college!
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
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