Challenge to Islam from a Christian

Ok so I have been talking to this Christian about religion and we have talked about a lot of stuff. Today he challenged me, he said he could perform a miracle in front of me. This was turning water to wine. He also said b4 that, that we should pray for something on saturday to happen he said that it should rain for half an hour then stop etc to prove whose God is right.

I was shocked, what do you guys think of this. I mean, I told him that God does this according to his will and that the signs of God are everywhere. I told him about contradictions in the Bible but all he can say about that is that its been translated wrong. I told him that people can do freaky things, many of these ppl dont believe in God but they do voodoo, black magic etc etc

Do u guys think that this is an example of this? He also replied to my comment about prophets doing miracles by saying he was a prophet! I told him that Muhammad(saw) was the final prophet. He said thats where the Qur'an ends but Bible speaks differently. This guy has also told me that he is also the Son of God. I feel a bit bad for turning down the challenge thing altho I know I shouldn't. I told him that the God I believe in is the same God he believes in. Except that his concept of God is different. I also told him why a man can marry more than 1 wife and he said that this was wrong and that they would get HIV coz of blood exchange. I told him that this was also wrong, God wouldn't have messed up this bad. What God says is right. I checked on irf.net and it does confirm that as long as the wives aren't having extra-marital sex then there'd be no diseases. Unlike if a woman had many husbands which would inevitably lead to disease.

So wot do u think of this guy. Could he really have performed what he said? Should I have witnessed it? Or is this an example of where Allah gives the unbelievers what they want coz he knows it'll make them feel happy? Let me know please.

Maybe he could have but don't you believe in illusions, and magic and sorcery. Our prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) himself had sorcery used upon him, so we shouldn't view such things as just "superstition".

But performing magic doesn't make a person a prophet. David copperfield performs more elaborate illusions but we wouldn't ever say he's a prophet would we?

We know many false prophets will pass, each will try to draw us away from our faith. There have also been many muslims who have claimed to be prophets, i.e that guy from the ahmadiyah movement? he's passed away now.

One ramadan years ago i remember seeing a bbc docu type programme following a man in europe somewhere performing miracles, not saying he was a prophet. But later on with many followers claiming to be a prophet. He said he is planning to come to the uk to convert ppl to Christianity. He seems to model himself on images of Jesus (as) as depicted in christmas movies. Long slightly wavy hair, a close beard, the long jubba like garment, even a shepards staff in his hand. I couldn't take him seriously. But i could see why ppl were drawn to him. He was very charismatic, and generous and soft spoken. He had time for everyone particularly the elderly and poor. I eventually thght wake up girl he's nothing but a con artist how ever nice he may appear. Ppl did pay him for blessing them etc. He seems to make a living out of it. Same as these pir sabs nothing but a prophet for profit

lol i'll stay outta this one, but Ackbar - from a Christian - i'd steer clear of people who claim to perform "miracles."

God doesn't perform magic tricks to convince us.

There are dangerous pastors here in the states that run around trying to convert people to their particular flavor of Christianity for money.

Obviously the idea of a growing Christian community is appealing to me, but I am more concerned about what the growing Christian community is "about" - and people like this strike me as a bit exploitive.

Thanks guys.

The media, government, tried to blow us, but they can't out the flame, or doubt the name.

We are in england.

It always rains.

That is not a miracle. Closer to a curse :twisted:

But, as Dave says... avoid

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Allahuakbar" wrote:
Ok so I have been talking to this Christian about religion and we have talked about a lot of stuff. Today he challenged me, he said he could perform a miracle in front of me. This was turning water to wine. He also said b4 that, that we should pray for something on saturday to happen he said that it should rain for half an hour then stop etc to prove whose God is right.

I was shocked, what do you guys think of this. I mean, I told him that God does this according to his will and that the signs of God are everywhere. I told him about contradictions in the Bible but all he can say about that is that its been translated wrong. I told him that people can do freaky things, many of these ppl dont believe in God but they do voodoo, black magic etc etc

Do u guys think that this is an example of this? He also replied to my comment about prophets doing miracles by saying he was a prophet! I told him that Muhammad(saw) was the final prophet. He said thats where the Qur'an ends but Bible speaks differently. This guy has also told me that he is also the Son of God. I feel a bit bad for turning down the challenge thing altho I know I shouldn't. I told him that the God I believe in is the same God he believes in. Except that his concept of God is different. I also told him why a man can marry more than 1 wife and he said that this was wrong and that they would get HIV coz of blood exchange. I told him that this was also wrong, God wouldn't have messed up this bad. What God says is right. I checked on irf.net and it does confirm that as long as the wives aren't having extra-marital sex then there'd be no diseases. Unlike if a woman had many husbands which would inevitably lead to disease.

So wot do u think of this guy. Could he really have performed what he said? Should I have witnessed it? Or is this an example of where Allah gives the unbelievers what they want coz he knows it'll make them feel happy? Let me know please.

lol.... reminds me of an episode of the simpson where Homer says:

"Please God... if you want me to eat this dougnut for you give me no sign"

You mayaswell turn around and tell him if the Sun comes up on Saturday that is a miracle of Allah(swt) on its own wether you ask for it or not.

Back in BLACK

True. I understand that. But one point, how do you tell a Prophet of God from one practising sorcery? I know that the prophets of God did magical things, but the difference is that they preached the Gospel of unity of 1 God, right? And they asked for no reward from their ppl.

This guy wasn't saying it was gonna rain at a certain time, he was saying that it would rain at a certian time, then stop, then rain again. According to the times he would say. Dodgy guy lol.

The media, government, tried to blow us, but they can't out the flame, or doubt the name.

"Constantine" wrote:

God doesn't perform magic tricks to convince us.

Judging from the Koran Jesus was given one of the best miracles, I always I assumed that was the reason you worshipped one of God’s prophets. So Dave where do you see “Divine inspiration”, as a human you will need something to convince us right?

IMO Muhammad got the best miracle EVER , a scientifically proven and a mathematically composed book full of enlightenment and wisdom revealed in the dark ages. I also read in a ahadith he could split the moon and beat up this man who had the strength of an elephant….

"Allahuakbar" wrote:
I also told him why a man can marry more than 1 wife and he said that this was wrong and that they would get HIV coz of blood exchange. I told him that this was also wrong, God wouldn't have messed up this bad. What God says is right. I checked on irf.net and it does confirm that as long as the wives aren't having extra-marital sex then there'd be no diseases. Unlike if a woman had many husbands which would inevitably lead to disease.

Strictly speaking I have heard MANY Muslims say that polygamy is ONLY acceptable if it is the best interest of the orphan coz the man would provide for the orphan and the widow since men are the bred winners.

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

maybe you should have pointed out there are countless verses in the bible that permit polygamy. Example, King david, King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines many other examples.

Isn't HIV more likely in ppl who have casual relationships? If a muslim man decides to take on more than one wife i think it would be wise for the women and man to get a HIV test for safety. Nowadays it's quite common for many sisters to make conditions such as HIV tests prior to accepting a marriage proposal.
I'm sure there are non muslims who make such conditions aswell. So sexually transmitted diseases aren't necessarily a polygamous issue.

"yashmaki" wrote:
maybe you should have pointed out there are countless verses in the bible that permit polygamy. Example, King david, King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines many other examples.

huh?

i thought sulman and Dawud only had 4 wives

:?:

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

"Judda" wrote:
"yashmaki" wrote:
maybe you should have pointed out there are countless verses in the bible that permit polygamy. Example, King david, King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines many other examples.

huh?

i thought sulman and Dawud only had 4 wives

:?:


either way its polygamy, so her point still stands.

but yash, y wud the bible say their Prophets had concubines, isnt that disrespectful? :?

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

i duno it's in the old testament Asiyah.

I never said king David had hundreds of wives King solomon did according to the old testament. According to the same testament i think King David had six wives and a number of concubines aswell.

"yashmaki" wrote:
i duno it's in the old testament Asiyah.

I never said king David had hundreds of wives King solomon did according to the old testament. According to the same testament i think King David had six wives and a number of concubines aswell.


:shock: :? Dave plz can u confirm, i find that extremely disrespectful (the concubines bit).

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

Ok i'll give you the reference Dave can verify for us:

[i]Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.[/i]

Ref:

Salam

"Allahuakbar" wrote:
I have been talking to this Christian about religion and we have talked about a lot of stuff. Today he challenged me, he said he could perform a miracle in front of me. This was turning water to wine...

Send him up north.

I have friends who can perform even greater miracles.

Omrow

maybe it;s a cuss i agree this site can be. But i only referred to it for the references, and nothing else. If the references are wrong i'll apologise and Dave can correct us. But they could be right.

Equally there is a christian site which gives replies to this website.

"Judda" wrote:
"yashmaki" wrote:

Ref:

sites like them are there to cuss religions...quite often they are wrong....


i happen to agree with Judda here - i remember being miffed wen i checked out that 'answering-islam' website. if this is a reaction to that, i'd be equally miffed. i dont like people who insult others religions. :?

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

"Aasiyah" wrote:
"Judda" wrote:
"yashmaki" wrote:

Ref:

sites like them are there to cuss religions...quite often they are wrong....


i happen to agree with Judda here - i remember being miffed wen i checked out that 'answering-islam' website. if this is a reaction to that, i'd be equally miffed. i dont like people who insult others religions. :?

submission.org 'answers back' but y dont revival do that :idea: :?: :twisted:

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

"Judda" wrote:
"Aasiyah" wrote:
i happen to agree with Judda here - i remember being miffed wen i checked out that 'answering-islam' website. if this is a reaction to that, i'd be equally miffed. i dont like people who insult others religions. :?

submission.org 'answers back' but y dont revival do that :idea: :?: :twisted:


'answers back' to what? i think u know very well that submission.org dont know what theyr on about half the time! Blum 3

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

"Aasiyah" wrote:
"Judda" wrote:
"Aasiyah" wrote:
i happen to agree with Judda here - i remember being miffed wen i checked out that 'answering-islam' website. if this is a reaction to that, i'd be equally miffed. i dont like people who insult others religions. :?

submission.org 'answers back' but y dont revival do that :idea: :?: :twisted:


'answers back' to what? i think u know very well that submission.org dont know what theyr on about half the time! Blum 3

lol assia the site that "answers Islam", i lost the adress to it, i'll try and tell Mr Editor about that site if i find the URL :twisted: that site is starting to get on ma nerves :?

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

yeah i agree but find out if the references are correct that;s the only reason i pasted them.

I'll try find these same references elsewhere if that will help.

"yashmaki" wrote:
yeah i agree but find out if the references are correct that;s the only reason i pasted them.

I'll try find these same references elsewhere if that will help.

nah it makes no diff to dave coz he said stuff dont like that dont bother him

But i get bothered :evil:

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

:evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

"Judda" wrote:
"Aasiyah" wrote:
"Judda" wrote:
"Aasiyah" wrote:
i happen to agree with Judda here - i remember being miffed wen i checked out that 'answering-islam' website. if this is a reaction to that, i'd be equally miffed. i dont like people who insult others religions. :?

submission.org 'answers back' but y dont revival do that :idea: :?: :twisted:


'answers back' to what? i think u know very well that submission.org dont know what theyr on about half the time! Blum 3

lol assia the site that "answers Islam", i lost the adress to it, i'll try and tell Mr Editor about that site if i find the URL :twisted: that site is starting to get on ma nerves :?


o ok u meant that submission.org answers back to that 'answering-islam' website? hmm, dunno if that'd b productive...

but yeh, i guess we cud correct them on many things, we wouldnt b the first muslim website to do so though. i dont think theyd actually correct the stuff on their website anyway, their intentions are screwed up - they intend to mislead ppl as opposed to informing them. :?

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

yash i prolly know daves answer to all the claims:

"IT WAS ABROGATED BY THE NEW TESTEMATE"

:roll:

but dave dont like it if u tell him the bible has been altered, he feels as though it is an attack on his religion....

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

that same site gives references from the new testament too, i'll dig them out a bit later tired now

Actually i've given you the link read it do some work Biggrin

"yashmaki" wrote:
that same site gives references from the new testament too, i'll dig them out a bit later tired now

Actually i've given you the link read it do some work Biggrin

then he wud prolly say;

"they are reading it out of context"

"the bible is too old to interprate correctly"

"its the catholics that believe that"

"so what, ur religon is flawed as well"

:roll:

i'll give u a fiver if its not one of the above...

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

fiver i'm skint is that all you're gona give me!

lol whoa what's with the convert Dave drive all of a sudden - Judda calm down, Yash - hooked ya up with an explanation below. I can provide further relevant scripture if you need it.

But let's try not to transfer our frustration at miracle man onto me or my religion folks.

"yashmaki" wrote:
maybe you should have pointed out there are countless verses in the bible that permit polygamy. Example, King david, King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines many other examples.

It doesn't matter if there are countless examples - it's prohibited based on doctrine and other biblical scripture.

In the beginning God created [b]A[/b] man and [b]A[/b] woman to be together - not a man and women. We believe that polygamy is an examply of humanity's perversion of divine will, the fact that Prophets Kings or Patriarchs practiced it is irrelevant since in our beliefs they were not perfect and did sin.

David especially.

Polygamy is not a Christian practice

"Judda" wrote:
Judging from the Koran Jesus was given one of the best miracles, I always I assumed that was the reason you worshipped one of God’s prophets. So Dave where do you see “Divine inspiration”, as a human you will need something to convince us right?

IMO Muhammad got the best miracle EVER , a scientifically proven and a mathematically composed book full of enlightenment and wisdom revealed in the dark ages. I also read in a ahadith he could split the moon and beat up this man who had the strength of an elephant….

We worship him because he told us he is divine and part of God, not because he could turn water into wine or walk on water.

Though that is impressive.

"Judda" wrote:

then he wud prolly say;

"they are reading it out of context"

Didn't say that

Quote:
"the bible is too old to interprate correctly"

or that

Quote:
"IT WAS ABROGATED BY THE NEW TESTEMATE"

or that

Quote:
"its the catholics that believe that"

or that

Quote:
"so what, ur religon is flawed as well"

or that

Quote:
i'll give u a fiver if its not one of the above...

Yash is 5 pounds richer! Now go out and see Harry Potter (and take Aasiyah with you)

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