it may exist, but probably not as were told

i doubt they are that large, that they are that clever, that they are that dangerous

note: im not backing em, nor dissin em - i need to meet em to do that!

i recall a studio guest on Sky news.......he says al qaeda is a myth, does it even exist?! its jus wat bush n blair like to say to make every1 think they got things on lock down

[b]EDIT[/b]

"Admin" wrote:

Alqaeda...

does it exist?

is it omnipresent/omniecient?

Is it an organisation?

is it a twisted Ideal?

can it be defeated? can it be killed?

Or will it succeed.

Is it an in joke? or is it a scapegoat?

All those questions who cares :twisted:

Obviously they must exist they aint exactly a figure of imagination! They do exist maybe exactly the way they are viewed or maybe its exageration, aint a clue!

[b]EDIT[/b]

"Admin" wrote:

hey people believe inmartians. that does not mean they exist.

And there are websites about martians aswell.

not saying (yet) that Alqaead does not exist, but just because they are discussed does not mean they exist.

Well somethin relating to it does exist!

"Admin" wrote:

So... is alqaeda an organisation? or is it an ideology? or a scapegoat?

OBL's group is called Al Saiqa...

Maybe its Al-Saqia's bro/sis Al-Qaeda, i duno, i dont wrk for either!

Maybe its just a good way of using it to put the blame on someone?

al-saiqa

first time heard a dat 1..

goodness how many groups out der

and hw do they manage to do they job from hidin thats of the hook.

bless.

I believe they did exist as a group before 9/11, but after the war in Afghanistan, i believe it was broken up and basically what was left was a idealogy. Which will prove to be much more dangerous for the muslims and non muslims.

I dunno, first I herd of these Al Qa eedas was after 9/11. Before I was aware of certain people, of certain tanzeems but them Al Qa eedas were totally unknown to me.

Seeing as I only herd abt this group after 9/11 I find it very dodgy, particularly as those people and groups which today are supposedly part of that Al Qa eeda network were well known to me, just surprised that I wasnt aware of the org b4 9/11.

And I dont believe half the stuff they say that Al qaeeda claim responsibilty for was actually done by them. We still dont have an explanation for the british soldiers dressed in arab clothing who arrested by the ''iraqi'' cops and then freed by the ''allies''.

I cud go and stab som1 today, come here and post responsibilty as AlQaeeda Jihadi in UK, ppl can say anything on net.

Its all confusion.

Som1 asked abt alqaeda and y i comment on them.

Reason is because EVRYTHING that happens is made out to be something to do with alqaeda. lest we 4get good old saddam was also some how a supporter fo alqaeda and wasnt he aslo involved in helping with 9/11?

it seems everywhere we go every thing that muslims do is alqaeda related, kashmir wants freedom, must be the alqaedas attacking indian soldiers, thai muslims suffer at hands of police and respond and defend tehmselves, must be the alqaedas again, petrol ''factory'' in france, must be alqaeda.

I dont need to defend al qaeeda, nor do I need to condemn it becuase I dont knw it exists or not.

What I can condemn is stuff like petrol bombing coppers in france cos thats rong, I can condemn killing people on random busses or train cos thats rong, but what I cant do is comment on an organistaion that to be honest, seems to be straight out of a cartoon.

I'd liken al-qaeda to a mafia. However I do think they are influenced by certain governments, perhaps without their knowledge.

People did talk about Al Qaeda before 9-11. It's just that they used to be reffered to as a 'propogandist' org.

Al-Qaeda has been given a more actively violent air after 9-11.

Also, any group that loosely shares Al Qaeda's nihilistic anti-Western takfiree ideology is labeld as an 'Al Qaeda affiliate.'

To summarise thus far, if I understand correctly, and to let you in on my thoughts:

Hayder thinks al Qaeda may be a storm in a teacup, and would need to meet them to have an opinion on them.

naj believes al Qaeda is real and thinks they are great, as are any similar groups. She is especially impressed with their covertness.

angel thinks al Qaeda or something similar exists, doesn't want to speculate about them since we can't be sure, but suggests they might be a foil.

Admin is wide open on the subject.

yuit believes they exist, but that today al Qaeda is not organised and their ideology has become widespread.

Med is suspicious of claims that al Qaeda exists, but makes clear his opposition to the activities attributed to al Qaeda.

salaf believes al Qaeda exists, possibly in league with unspecified governments.

irfghan implies al Qaeda exists but thinks they are scapegoated or too conveniently fingered.

100man believes al Qaeda and similar terrorist groups exist, that they represent a serious threat and that their ideology is extremely dangerous; struggles to assess how much support there is for Islamist Imperialism and to what extent their motivation might not be purely ideological; and considers that their agenda blends legitimate concerns with a quasi-prophetic message of world dominance and impending Armageddon, playing on Islamic unity and angst and stoking outrage to garner support. Additionally I acknowledge that being British and Jewish informs my fears that al Qaeda may be the tip of the iceberg of a nefarious 'other', and seek to establish whether these fears are grounded when talking with people at various points in the matrix of world opinion.

[b]EDIT - Naj is a she[/b] [i]Thanks. Apologies Naj. - 100[/i]

i go with irgan and yuit as well

i just dont think they are that dangerous as we are told, theres very little proof

i dont back them, again i feel the need to re-iterate that point, but i think its all a ploy now by the US and UK governments to plot a deep sense of fear within us all

'be afraid...Al-Qaeda is coming for ya!!'

i bet they dont even know themselves who Al-Qaeda are specifically! (by that i mean, where they are specifically based, their members, their resources, thier ideas etc)

The programme on Radio 4 last night...

Irfan Chisti was on it and he spoke about takfir.

Takfir means excommunication, eg calling other Muslims kaffirs.

I 'like' this word 'takfiri'. It was the first time I paid [u]any[/u] attention to it.

I think this is a very apt label for Al Qaeda et al.

What do you think?

Can anyone tell me more about it?

"100" wrote:

naj believes al Qaeda is real and thinks they are great, as are any similar groups. She is especially impressed with their covertness.

LOL nw nw dat ^^^ made me laugh...anywayz let u off wont bother correcting u, i'd rather not air what i really think.

You should correct me, why wouldn't you? I thought that is why you were writing stuff like INSHALLAH and bless when you mentioned them and "hw do they manage to do they job from hidin thats of the hook." I'm not looking to misunderstand you.

hes ryt naj, you cant say you dont wanna air your views

you already have!!

not really hayder....i could say alot more than inshallah or bless, that doesnt show i think they great or oda groups are great or im impressed by how they carry out their work,

u cant judge my thoughts by a few words can ya?

i'll let u think what u want.

your words clearly show your support for them, no matter if you say one word or an article

arite hayder like i said think what ya like....but such things shall remain just with me like what i think about OBL aswell, i aint gonna go discussin it now.

such statements show your liking for them, the fact you dont want to discuss it

fair enuff, your entitled to your view

just because som1 doesnt like to discuss something doesnt mean they like it, I now quite regularly say I dont wanna get into an issue cos I know its futile explaining it cos ppl think its right when its clearly rong.

Now, I would like to say that I believe in certain principles. I believe firstly that I cant be suspicious of pious believing muslims. A dirty crossworshipper makes accusations on pious muslims who pray and give zakah, I HAVE to by my religious consciousness rely on the muslim and think good of him.

Secondly, I think certain things need to be noted. From the very inception of Islam lies were made up about Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam, about verses of Quran, about Sahabah Karaam. From the very beginning lies have been spread about the Truth.

There exist a group of people, they pray, they give zakah, they obey ALLAH and His Rasul salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
There exist a group of people, they worship the devil and his cohorts, the oppress the weak, they disobey ALLAH and His Rasul salallahu alayhi wa sallam.

One group says the other do this, the other replies we are free from it. I rely on the people of truth.

People should be aware of the incidents that have taken place in South Waziristan, this is in Pakistan, the country of origin for many here. Investigate what happened to the terrorists, investigate why a whole battalion of Pakistani soldiers wept and refused to fight them, investigate why a new battalion had to be brought in, investigate what the dwellers of Junoobi Waziristan did, and why they came to Pakistan. Investigate that how these GUESTS were treated by the Hosts, and at the same time how from the other side, the Idolworshippers came over as GUESTS and how the Hosts treated them.

One group of guests, who prayed, gave zakah, feared ALLAH and His Rasul salallahu alayhi wa sallam, one group who protected the hosts from the soviet hordes for years, their treatment was worse than dogs.
The other group, who worshipped the idols, who drank the wine, who are upon misguidance, one group were honoured guests, one group for whom the muslims girls of lahore were made to put on a ''show'' of song and dance for.

SubhanALLAH!

One group have their homes demolished with the children and women inside, the other are entertained with women of the hosts dancing and jiggling about for them.

Laa hawla wa laa quwwata illah billah.

Salam

Al Qaeda exists. And I believe that it can be defeated.

But not by the present approach the American administration is taking.

It is making more enemies than friends.

The current strategy of US is to threaten the extremists.

This is so stupid. What the hell are they thinking.

I mean, how on earth do you scare a bunch of suicidal maniacs ?

Its like the cops warning a depressed manager who is about to jump off a building: "Stop or we will shoot you."

Threats don't work with people who WANT to die.

If this methods used by Washington does not change soon, they will have one hell of a war on their hands. It will be too late to change things. Defeat will be imminent. Already many experts are saying that war on terror is being lost.

We need a change of plan:

How to win hearts and minds.

Omrow

I don't think it's useful to think of Al Qaeda as an organized operation anymore. The trouble with Qaeda was they were completely dependent on bin Laden for money, training, everything. Unfortunately he has converted his power through hard investment into soft power on a global scale - islamists and terrorists sympathetic to his message (and there are many) take cues from him still through his interviews and whatnot.

On the same token the administration appears to be using Al Qaeda as their default evil doers. They are giving conflicting signals about the operational capacity of Qaeda and and the same time implying their direct operational involvement in almost any act of terror. I personally think this is because the US public doesn't have the patience to be introduced to and chase down every last terrorist group that hates us, and Al Qaeda is the most visible symbol - this could be a reflection of our poor choice in a military target "global terrorism" which is unclear and requires a greater commitment.

Admin I thought Saiqa was secular palestinian and about 30 years older than bin Laden...

In fact I don't think hes ever been directly involved in Israel - which is somewhat strange.

Salam

I agree.

And one thing is for certain.

Muslim world's help is essential if this war on terror is ever to be won.

Al Qaeda also knows this; that they need muslims on their side to keep their campaign of terror legitimate.

You cannot kill suicide bombers with bombs.

The day the extremists lose moral support is the day they will die.

Omrow

"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

I agree.

And one thing is for certain.

Muslim world's help is essential if this war on terror is ever to be won.

Al Qaeda also knows this; that they need muslims on their side to keep their campaign of terror legitimate.

You cannot kill suicide bombers with bombs.

The day the extremists lose moral support is the day they will die.

Omrow

Ironically you actually are talking about point 2 of the american counter insurgency warfare doctrine straight from the academy books.

Fighting an Insurgency:

1) All military operations must be checked gainst a clear political goal/plan
- All military policy must be secondary to political necessities
2) All members of a side must appear honest efficient and more sympathetic to the people (to fight the insurgents recruitment pool)
- There must be more credibility, everyone must know this part of the plan
3) There must be a clear thorough integrated plan including politican, economic, and military goals that all actors on the ground level must be aware of
4) There must be intelligence and PR dominance
5) Guerilla infrastructure must be destroyed, their access to food ammunition, supplies, intelligences, recruits and weapopns must be cut

There must be at least a 10:1 force advantage against the insurgents to have a fighting chance, this kind of warfare is 90% political and only 10% military, advantage is actually against the insurgents since most insurgencies are revolutionary movements.

Unfortunately the neocons changed the military doctrines that didn't fit into their "transformation" strategy and they literally purged any of the old military structure that still adhered to official US military doctrine - General Shinseki is the classic example. The reason he told the senate we needed a force of at least 400,000 wasn't because Saddams troops were particularly talented - it was to maintain the 10:1 force advantage.

Doug Feith disagreed.

Salam

Well, the Iraq war was not fought by military means.

It was fought by political means.

Pentagon was used as a pawn by the White House.

When politicians start doing the work of the Generals, we get into one big mess.

They should have simply let the Generals plan and execute the war until its successful end.

Too late now.

Its another Vietnam, if not worse.

Omrow