LOL

Maybe you can PM me the joke in more detail.

Irfghan,

Dear oh dear. You sad deluded person.

Anyone that speaks the truth has an ulterior motive?

Using what you have quoted.

"See people for what they are and not what they tell you that you should see them for"

A very non-specific comment that actually applies to a lot of sections of society including in my opinion political parties religious groups and other ethnic, cultural, nationalist communities. Looking at the truth was the only implication here.

And actually if you took your own prejudiced glasses off and look at what I said you may see that if my opinion was aimed at all black people I wouldn't have said the majority would I, I would have said ALL.

And as for trying to tie what I said to Muslims too, that is pathetic. Are you trying to win brownie points?

My two best mates from school in HANDSWORTH, one of whom got married last year and invited me, to be best man, that, incidentally, was one of the best days of my life so far by the way, ARE BOTH BLACK.

Oh and here is the killer, I am very happily engaged to a very beautiful Asian girl. Who incidentally had to keep me secret for about two years untill we could find a way of telling her family without them putting a stop to the whole thing BECAUSE OF MY COLOUR. Oh no wait I'm a racist, let me call the wedding off shes Asian.

There is no prejudice in this world worse than in the mind of the ignorant. I am not a racist just because I tell the truth as I see it.

Your assumptions are crass ignorant and judgemental.

Perspective? you are so far up your own backside you can't see past your own ignorance.

The 'Some of my best friends are black/brown/Jewish/whatever' defence is often used by people in response to accusations of racism. Some people who use this defence are still racist.

You said that the MAJORITY of black people are 'loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred'. Why the majority? You are implying that a few of them have brocken free of the shackles of inferiority but most have not.

Many people are loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred. But this trancends peoples' colour or race.

To pick out black people and characterise them as 'loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred' is racist.

You're engaged to an Asian. So what? I didn't pass comment on your views on Asian people. I thought you were Asian yourself, but that doesn't change anything IMO.

"irfghan" wrote:

The 'Some of my best friends are black/brown/Jewish/whatever' defence is often used by people in response to accusations of racism. Some people who use this defence are still racist.

"I'm not racist! I have a black friend!"

hahahha I love that one - it gets ripped to shreds in the movie crash

yup, thats what Luis Aragones said as well.......

pack of lies, a weak cover up

"irfghan" wrote:

The 'Some of my best friends are black/brown/Jewish/whatever' defence is often used by people in response to accusations of racism. Some people who use this defence are still racist.

You said that the MAJORITY of black people are 'loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred'. Why the majority? You are implying that a few of them have brocken free of the shackles of inferiority but most have not.

Many people are loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred. But this trancends peoples' colour or race.

To pick out black people and characterise them as 'loud and aggressive and full of contempt and hatred' is racist.

You're engaged to an Asian. So what? I didn't pass comment on your views on Asian people. I thought you were Asian yourself, but that doesn't change anything IMO.

Irfghan dear brother i'm with u 200% please please keep it up i just havent got the energy to contend with racist people

you see the major problem here is they dont admit to it and perhaps never will and that is precisely why the whole disgusting mess goes on and we get no peace or sense

"Admin" wrote:

No racist will ever see him/herself as racist. There will be layers of justification.

Definitely

I think Ice T really had the litmus test

I dont think DTC is racist. He has in my view made it clear that he doesnt think ALL black people are a certain way, He is commenting on the black people that live in birmingham and how the MAJORITY of them behave.

I can vouch for his comments.

I think, he is one of those people who speak bluntly and to the point, they dont get mixed up in PR jargon or trying to sound polite. He calls a spade a spade and I respect him for that.

"Admin" wrote:

He thinks he majority are. A few have managed to rise above the level of scum. Now that is racist thought IMO.

I think we need to ask for clarification.

Brother DTC when you say majority who are you referring to?

Are you referring to:
all blacks (african and caribbean)
caribbean blacks
blacks in UK
blacks in Birmingham. ?

Secondly, admin has the brother said ''a few have managed to rise above the level of scum''. Are those his actual words?

I aint arguing, I am only seeking clarification.

As far as I understood , DTC was referring the blacks in handsworth/lozells area, and his comments about them are bang on. If he is referring to blacks in all places all over the world then that is a problem, but I understood him to be referring to a specific limited group of individuals.

How dare you narrow minded idiots even consider that you know me well enough to accuse me of racism.

Racism is the belief in total superiority of race religion or creed over all others, not the truth as one sees it and expressing that in open forum, idiots, I hold no such perverse ideas because believe me if I thought it I would say it.

Point at hand I have commented directly from living in Handsworth for most of my life and med has hit the nail on the head, I am talking specifically about that area. Where do I say anything to the contrary? Isn't this thread about "The HANDSWORTH riots?" I have lived in Handsworth for so long that I have formulated that opinion from experience, not from blind ignorance and arse licking, KEEP QUIET liberalism, like some of you have.

Admin,

The minority have managed to rise above the level of scum. Your words and not mine. Rising above that mental slavery of, we don't get this and that because we are black, and putting effort into changing some of their own mind set is not racism its practical thinking. Get down off your high horse and don't reckon that you know my "sentiments" without knowing more about me. You arrogant moron. How can you know my whole sentiment on anything from this thread alone?

seema,

If I am racist, for what you say you think I am, then you are equally so for calling me racist. Exercise your right to free thinking instead of picking up the drippings of left over media hype and constant ignorance of the facts. You are just blind to reality, you are just a puppet to political correctness.

Irfghan,

Your amazing! You spout garbage about racism, without I think really knowing what the word means. It means, once again for those who are not familiar, the belief in the superiority of one race over all others.

I' m marrying an Asian girl, hopefully if I can fully get past her familys ignorance, how the heck does that make my supposed belief in my racial superiority possible?

I certainly have my prejudices like we all do but Racist thats just crap.

Get a grip on reality. Say openly, what you probably say to your friends behind closed doors anyway.

"DTC" wrote:

Irfghan,

Your amazing! You spout garbage about racism, without I think really knowing what the word means. It means, once again for those who are not familiar, [b]the belief in the superiority of one race over all others[/b].

I' m marrying an Asian girl, hopefully if I can fully get past her familys ignorance, [b]how the heck does that make my supposed belief in my racial superiority possible[/b]?

I certainly have my prejudices like we all do but Racist thats just crap.

Get a grip on reality. Say openly, what you probably say to your friends behind closed doors anyway.

Racism can involve the belief in the superirority of one race over all others.

Racism can also invlove the 'ranking' of races in terms of superiority and inferiority.

It can also involve believing in the inferiority of one particluar race or group of races.

You don't necessarily have to believe in the superioirity of one race to be a racist.

lol, DTC bro a gud post.

U make me laff bro. May ALLAH lighten your face, make your heart glow and grant you and all of us a heart content with what ALLAH is content on. ameen.

DTC come on this is getting out of hand you do know that racism is much more then one race hating another or feeling superior this is predujice and this type of bigotry one would hope has almost been curbed (in the open anyway)

What we are dealing with here is racial discrimination which takes place as a result of deep social and institutional practices and habits.

That is, historical patterns of race-based exclusion do not disappear with individual prejudices. Long after people cease to actively hate and consciously discriminate against racial minorities, there persist social patterns—where people live, which social organizations they belong to, what schools they attend, —that were built during many years where active racial prejudice was the fact of life.

These social and institutional structures, in other words, are constructed on prejudicial racialist foundations. As such, they are bearers of the racist past, even though they may today no longer be populated by active bigots. [b]This social and economic exclusion on the basis of race is what “racism” is really all about. [/b]

but you knew that right so thats why you totally blame these people for their own misfortunes

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism

rac·ism Audio pronunciation of "racism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

seema,

Racial discrimination? If I accept your explanation of "racism" which I don't, because that word is as i have said before used much too easily it has started to lose its true, most accurate and most useful meaning, shouldn't I hate all black people and class them all the same? But as I said I certainly do not. I do NOT hate the whole race how did you arrive at that narrow minded conclusion?

I don't totally blame "these people for their own misfortunes" but I do think sitting back and blaming everyone else for them and then justifying even in part the nonsense of those riots for past treatment is disgusting, unhelpful and does nothing to promote the "plight" of black people.

Racism and prejudice are the same thing?

Where are you saying that this type of prejudice has been "curbed" from? Britain generally? White Britain, is that the only place it exists? Asian society? Black society? Where? Because that kind of prejudice exists in all walks of society without exception.

Averroes,

I haven't ranked anyones race, there isn't a premiership of races in my mind. I have just said what I see and have lived with all of my life.

Costantine,

Thanks for the definition, it kind of proves my point. I didn't say the whole race.

"DTC" wrote:

Averroes,

I haven't ranked anyones race, there isn't a premiership of races in my mind. I have just said what I see and have lived with all of my life.

I didn't say that you did 'rank'.

The point is that you choose to pick a racial group and say that that particuler group is loud, full of hate, etc.

Many people are loud, full of hate, etc. But this trancends peoples' race.

The fact that you pick out [i]black people[/i] and say that [i]they[/i] are loud and hateful is very prejudicial.

Irfghan,

[i]"Racism can involve the 'ranking' of races in terms of superiority and inferiority." [/i]

What you said I believe.

The racial group(s) was chosen by whoever started the thread, I didn't pick them out. The riots were about black and asian people, my comments were and are made with that action, that area and that situation in mind.

Don't we all have some prejudice? Although that still is not the reason that I have made the comments that I have.

One other point Mr Admin, I never said that the people that I referred to as aggressive, and full of hate were "scum," please don't put words in my mouth.

.

"DTC" wrote:

Irfghan,

[i]"Racism can involve the 'ranking' of races in terms of superiority and inferiority." [/i]

What you said I believe.

Just to clear things up.

I wasn't saying that you were 'ranking'.

I was just trying to work out a definition of racism.

"DTC" wrote:

The racial group(s) was chosen by whoever started the thread, I didn't pick them out. The riots were about black and asian people, my comments were and are made with that action, that area and that situation in mind.

Don't we all have some prejudice? Although that still is not the reason that I have made the comments that I have.

We can be assured that many people are loud, aggressive and full of hate and contempt - be they black, white, brown, whatever.

I'm sure there are brown and white people in Handsworth who are loud, aggressive, and hateful.

But for you to only pick out a group of loud and hate-filled people on the basis of colour is prejudicial.

The reasons for aggressiveness and hate don't have anything to do with anyone's colour. These reasons can be found elsewhere, and they are not the same for everyone.

Irfghan,

IN MY OPINION the majority of black people that I have come in contact with in that area are loud and aggressive, they can be intimidating and threatening.

Ask asian people that live there ask other people that live there, maybe they will have a different opinion.

I didn't say that the reason they are that way, in my opinion, was because they are black, I said that that kind of behaviour / attitude was attributable to the majority of black people in that area, a different thing to what you are suggesting. If they had been any colour and behaved in that way and acted that way and I had lived amongst them for as long as I have around there, I would have said the same.

If people on this forum were not afraid of saying what they think and say, in the open, rather than behind closed doors or behind peoples backs a lot more people would agree with me.

.

"DTC" wrote:

If people on this forum were not afraid of saying what they think and say, in the open, rather than behind closed doors or behind peoples backs a lot more people would agree with me.

.

DTC you keep saying this i think it is very sad that you believe people do this true free thinkers are not shackled by such predujices nor are they bullied by the media or their circumstances

we do sincerley believe in the human in all of us and respond with open eyes and minds and do not attribute any one failing to exist in any one class creed or race of people

However having siaid this we do realise that circumstances do lead people to form certain opinions - such as yours

so i withdraw my remark of racist and say that you are not racist but only reacting to the unfortunate circumstances you find yourself in.

i hope and pray that the violence ends and that life gives people a chance to appreciate their differences rather than hate them and above all that we all have the luxery to think freely and justly.

after all if you are in the thick of things and only see these people doing violence etc then we must hear your opinions as the cries of a man in need to be heard and i do feel for you this argument of racist not racist is not helping you - i understand that now

sorry for any added heartache caused - sincerley

Seema,

I have read your post several times and am still not sure wether you are very subtly patronising me :? and I have just suddenly become very paranoid :? or your comments are genuine and heart felt. :?:

I suspect the latter, that being the case I really do appreciate that. And conversely, do sincerely apologise if I have said anything to offend you personally.

Your comment about free thinkers is so absolutely true and that is what I am and have been saying. Its a fact that that goes on, you must have come across it, maybe you just haven't noticed or realised.

True, free thinkers are not shackled by prejudice but nor should they be shackled by political correctness, or how can they be free thinkers?

As med said I do like to call a spade a spade. And it does on occassion get me 'erm "noticed".

X

yes having read my own post doesnt sound totally clear in plain english then what i want to say is that you are only stating what you have seen and experienced who am i to argue and dis your feelings

and no i dont feel you've said anything out of order to me

"DTC" wrote:

Irfghan,

IN MY OPINION the majority of black people that I have come in contact with in that area are loud and aggressive, they can be intimidating and threatening.

Ask asian people that live there ask other people that live there, maybe they will have a different opinion.

I didn't say that the reason they are that way, in my opinion, was because they are black, I said that that kind of behaviour / attitude was attributable to the majority of black people in that area, a different thing to what you are suggesting. If they had been any colour and behaved in that way and acted that way and I had lived amongst them for as long as I have around there, I would have said the same.

If people on this forum were not afraid of saying what they think and say, in the open, rather than behind closed doors or behind peoples backs a lot more people would agree with me.

.

I think you are absolutely right.

Most of the blacks I have met are loud, obnoxious, lazy, irresponsible, and are fiercly aggressive - [i]especially[/i] when they are concentrated together and not diluted within other groups.

It's nearly impossible to carry on a decent conversation with them - and you're right it's not racism.

I think it's a cultural thing honestly, like they are raised that way, why else would they act like that when they get concentrated into groups - take your example of how the blacks act in that neighborhood you were speaking of.

I've got nothing against blacks because of color - for me it's all about culture.

You're dead right too - it's not about race, it could be asians or slavs or something like that.

It's just their culture.

And frankly, I think it's fair to say that you can draw conclusions about people based on their culture. Unless you want to pretend culture doesn't exist or doesn't have an effect on people.

It's just socially prudent to have pre-formed personal opinions about individuals on the basis of their culture. - And that can totally be changed, you can have a black guy that acts white because he was seperated from the black culture.

It's all just Cultural relativism - you can't argue with that, blacks are just naturally hardwired to act a certain way.

So I guess i'm saying it's not that they are biologically different or inferior - they are just hardwired toward their culture which just happens to be less civilized than other cultures that other races are more naturally hardwired to.

Nothing racist about that.

[deleted

"seema*" wrote:

no no Constantine that totally is racist...

Duh

lol no no seems, i'm not a racist!

I have a black friend!

[deleted