i dont care what people say i will kiss my thumbs when hearin the prophets name as i belive in this. whoeva dont believe in it shouldnt really say anythin to people who do believe in it

we kiss a thumbs den put it on our eyes beacause it is sed da noor is put on ur eyes so u eyes can remain healthy and it is respectful not brelwi @ all

maybe it is a good act if waz not made into a must by some people.therefore is innovation.BUT to those who do it carry on so

Does anyone know of anyone by name who has made kissing of the thumbs at the mention of the Prophet's (SAW) name compulsory?

"jazzy" wrote:

maybe it is a good act if waz not made into a must by some people.therefore is innovation.BUT to those who do it carry on so

your wrong. dont care i do it

"irfghan" wrote:

"MastKuri" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

"MastKuri" wrote:

"khans1" wrote:

again it sounds like some barelawwiy crap to me

thats coz it is khan :roll:

Some people are so DU[size=12]M[/size]B!!! :roll:

"yashmaki" wrote:

Quote:

[color=blue][b]Those who categorically condemn this practice altogether should realize that it is not a baseless act that was invented by some Muslims in the Indian Subcontinent. [/b][/color]

[color=red][b]It is something that is practiced in other parts of the Muslim and Arab world also, such as in Syria and Yemen. [/b][/color]

[color=green][b]If one was to visit the famous city of Syria Halab (Aleppo), one would see many Arab Muslims including scholars kissing their thumbs and placing them on their eyes upon hearing the name of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) during the Adhan.[/b][/color]

whats [banned word] in that MR i know it all?

Let me du[size=12]m[/size]b it down for you.

The subject is kissing your thumbs when Prophet is mentioned. OK? Understand?

Khans1 said that this is a Brelwi thing. Yes?

You said that you agree with him. Didn't you?

You said that you agree that this is a Brelwi thing. Right?

Yashmaki had quoted a short peice of text about kissing your thumbs when Prophet is mentioned. Didn't she? Did you read it?

In that text it was stated that kissing your thumbs when Prophet is mentioned is not something that happens only in the Subcontinent. It said that this also happens in Syria and Yemen.
- 'Brelwis' come from the Subcontinent.
- 'Brelwis' do not come from Syria and Yemen.
- If kissing your thumbs when Prophet is mentioned was only a Brelwi thing then people in Syria and Yemen wouldn't be doing it.

You responed to the 6th post on this thread and ignored the 11th post on the very first page just to make a baseless prejudicial statement.

For ignoring Yashmaki's post just to make a childish remark you are du[size=12]m[/size]b.

Comprende?

bro by saying others outside india-sub continent practice it does not make it correct

the fact is irf everyone i asked in the mosque who does it , just responds by saying everyone else does it so i do it

thats stupid

[u][b]so does anyone have an hadith or quote from the holy quran to why its done ? if not dont do it because its innovation . simple[/b][/u]

i just want to reiterate this point

does anyone have an hadith or quote from the holy quran to why its done ?

if not then logically it should be classed as innovation since someone innovated it, true or false ?

If someone who has not got a valid quote from the quran or hadith, then they should not do take part in this act as they are innovating which is a serious sin, true or false?

learned people and students of islam please clarify and answer these questions

"Raf786" wrote:

bro by saying others outside india-sub continent practice it does not make it correct

the fact is irf everyone i asked in the mosque who does it , just responds by saying everyone else does it so i do it

thats stupid

[u][b]so does anyone have an hadith or quote from the holy quran to why its done ? if not dont do it because its innovation . simple[/b][/u]

I have tried not to get into arguments with you in the forum, but...

I didn't claim to present Quranic or Hadith-based evidence for this.

I was simply stating that people should stop being du[size=12]m[/size]b and saying that 'only Brelwis do it.'

However...

Yashmaki posted a scholarly commentary on this issue. The scholar did not condemn this practice. This is a direct quote from that:

Quote:

If one practiced this act out of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and due to the narrations of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), even if the narrations are considered weak, then there would be nothing wrong with that.

Ed posted this:

Quote:

well some ppl do it based on a weak hadith, that hazrat bilal (RA) was doing the azaan and the sahabaah including Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) kissed their hands and placed them on theior eyes. The prophet said whpever does that I will grab hold of them and take them to Jannah.

the authenticity of that hadith is disputed. That is why i dont practise it.

As Angel said, this is a form of respect. Although the Hadiths are weak, this practice does not seem to contravene any Islamic rulings. If it does, I'd like to see a decent scholarly commentary.

I have to agree with Ed those hadiths are weak

also isnt innovation agaisnt islam

additionally what is to say those who do it in yemen and syria are not brelwis

wasnt you arguing with me yesterday about the comment i made
'indian sub-continent sub sects'

another thread goin down that same route....... :roll:

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

another thread goin down that same route....... :roll:

yeh Admin, i think ppl hav sed all there is to b sed on this topic, can u lock it please?

this and that other 1 med has created goin down that all too familiar route

im sick and tired of it now, its very tedious

many have started loggin on less frequently coz of all the junk - sectarniasim, accusing, aloo filled posts, wat i ate for dinner, wat my pet did last nite....kind of topics

intellectuality has hit an all time low amongst the ummah it seems...

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

this and that other 1 med has created goin down that all too familiar route

im sick and tired of it now, its very tedious

many have started loggin on less frequently coz of all the junk - sectarniasim, accusing, aloo filled posts, wat i ate for dinner, wat my pet did last nite....kind of topics

intellectuality has hit an all time low amongst the ummah it seems...

i agree. :!:

why do people have the opinion that a daeef hadith is weak?

It is not. Just the chain of narration is not strong.

A Sahih Hadith is one where all members of the chain of narration are known ton have met, are all known as honest, and the hadith does not contradict the qur'an.

A weak hadith is the same as the above, but where either therre is no solid the members of the chain have met, or they cannot remember the exact words. the narrators still have to be known to be honest, and the words of the hadith not contradict the Qur'an.

A hadith where either the chain is non-existant, or members of the chain are found to be untrustworthy, or the hadith contradicts the qur'an is a rejected hadith, not a daeef hadith.

I find it offensive to ignore a hadith because it is daeef.

Its all the psuedo muhaddith of this time who think they know more than the scholars who travelled far and wide to compile these hadith, and went through the effort opf going through everything. If they had found a flaw, it would have been a rejected/false hadith. Not daeef.

Not everything ever said by the Prophet is in Bukhari.

Just another link about kissing of the thumbs:

http://www.livingislam.org/maa/ktda_e.html

and a quote regarding daeef hadith:

Quote:

; and it is because the Hadith is Da'if that the 'amal is counted among the Fada'il, and not the confirmed Sunna!). Nevertheless, this is definitely not a fabricated Hadith [Mawdu'], [b]and weak Hadiths are not and cannot be considered as false and lies[/b]. Furthermore, as Sayyid 'Alawi al-Maliki (may Allah be pleased with him!) reported in his dedicated treatise on the rules concerning the use of weak Hadiths, the Manhal Latif, that scholars of the four law-schools [madhhab] concurred by Ijma' [Consensus]--and that this Ijma' was recorded from the time of the Mujtahid Imam, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (may Allah be well pleased with him!) until now--that any Hadith which are Da'if (as long as it is not Mawdu'), can be acted upon for the Fada'il al-A'mal ['Alawi al-Maliki, Manhal, 251-253].

Going round in circles and it seems ppl who are just joinin are postin without readin the whole thread.

So to all those readin the thread before you post, read the full thread ESPECIALLY yashmaki's post as it clarifies everythin, its getin rather boring everyone havin to repeat themselves!

"Raf786" wrote:

I have to agree with Ed those hadiths are weak

Why do you agree with Ed? What clinched it for you?

"Raf786" wrote:

additionally what is to say those who do it in yemen and syria are not brelwis

wasnt you arguing with me yesterday about the comment i made
'indian sub-continent sub sects'

Brelwism is very specific to the Indian Subcontinent. I doubt it gets converts abroad. Largely because many Muslims in other countries don't see much perculiar to Brelwism.

'indian sub-continent sub sects'? Yes, there are sub sects in the Indian Subcontinent. That does not mean all sectarianism flows from there.

"Admin" wrote:

why do people have the opinion that a daeef hadith is weak?

I find it offensive to ignore a hadith because it is daeef.

Not everything ever said by the Prophet is in Bukhari.

coz daeef means weak anyway.if it wasnt weak it wudnt be called weak.
ur not sposed to take a daeef hadith as proof if u hav another stronger hadeeth to back it.
imam bukhari dint use all hadeeths coz they wernt strong enuf/the sanad(link) wernt as sturdy as his standards reqiured.
tru a hadith is a hadith but they've gotta be fairly authentic, suntyms u find that its not only sahaba that have narrated the hadith see or theres a missing person..... which makes the hadeeths sanad weaker.its just the way it is

"Raf786" wrote:

also isnt innovation agaisnt islam

There is a distinction between beautiful innovation, which is leggit and good, and bad bidah which is not so great.

Also I thought I'd contribute this from:

[url]http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/hdth/Kissing-t-Quran.html[/url]

" " wrote:

<< 3.The great scholar Abu'l Wafa says that he saw some fatwas saying that
Abu

Bakr (RA) kissed the nails of his two thumbs and then touched his eyes with
them when he heard rasoolalah's (peace be upon him) name in adhan, and when
the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked why he did so, he said, 'to attain
blessings through your blessed name.' Rasoolalah then declared. ''you did
well. He who does so never suffers from eye disease.'

I would like to add just a detail to this correct account. When Hazrat
AbuBakr (radhiAllahuanho) kissed his thumbs and then touched his eyes with
them,
he said "Marhabum be habibi, kuratoanee bika Ya RasoolAllah
(sallalahualaihiwassalam)." That is, "you are the coolness of my eyes, oh
RasoolAllah (sallalahualaihiwassalam)". Definitely it is true that anyone
who does
this with sincerity and aqida will never suffer from eye disease. My
friends, these are the true sunnah and traditions that Alhumdulillah people
of Ahle-Sunnat who are ahle-mohabat, those who have great love, for the
Sweet Noble Prophet of Madeenah (sallalahualaihiwassalam) have never
forgotten. These are expressions of love for Nabi-e-Kareem
(sallalahualaihiwassalam) and InshaAllah azawajjal they will never be
forgotten. Those who call it bidah or shirk or kufr will be long forgotten
and erased but these beautiful expressions of "mohabat" will never be
forgotten. It is my hope,desire dream, and heartfelt prayer that when
InshaAllah azawajjal the Most Noble King of All the Prophets, Nabi-e-Kareem
(sallalahualaihiwassalam) comes to my grave after I die, may Allah azawajjal
give me the opportunity to say "Ya RasoolAllah (sallalahualaihiwassalam)
Ahlan Wasalan Marhaba" and then offer beautiful Durood-sharif with aqida and
sincerity. Ameen.

"hEAVenSenT" wrote:

coz daeef means weak anyway.if it wasnt weak it wudnt be called weak.
ur not sposed to take a daeef hadith as proof if u hav another stronger hadeeth to back it.
imam bukhari dint use all hadeeths coz they wernt strong enuf/the sanad(link) wernt as sturdy as his standards reqiured.
tru a hadith is a hadith but they've gotta be fairly authentic, suntyms u find that its not only sahaba that have narrated the hadith see or theres a missing person..... which makes the hadeeths sanad weaker.its just the way it is

Imam bukhari was a comiler of Ahadith. He compiled the Sahih hadith into Sahih Al Bukhari. He did not reject the daeef hadith.

A weak hadith is still a valid hadith. It cannot be ignored. However it just is not used as basis for a rule of law.

My original argument was why is it rejected if it is weak? If it was to be rejected, the muhaddith would have rejected it. They do have grouping apart from Sahih, Daeef. There is Mawdu', the rejected and a couple of others iirc.

From the page I linked to last time:

Quote:

Imam al-Nawawi (may Allah be pleased with him!), in his popular work the Adhkar, says:

"The specialists of Hadiths [i.e., Muhaddith] and the jurists [Fuqaha'] and other (scholars) have said that one is permitted, and in fact is recommended, to use weak Hadith in matters of 'extra acts of devotion' [Fada'il] and in 'arousing one's desire to do good and inspiring one's fear from doing evil' [Targhib wa al-Tarhib]--as long as it is not a fabricated Hadith. As for the legal rulings pertaining to what is lawful and unlawful [al-Halal wa al-Haram], buying and selling, marriage and divorce, and others like it [because all of them involve either an injunctive legal ruling [Hukm Shar'i Taklifi] (such as Haram and Wajib) or a stipulatory legal ruling [Hukm Shar'i Wad'i] (such as Shart and Mani')] are concerned, one can only use a rigorously authenticated Hadith [Sahih] or a well authenticated Hadith [Hasan], except if a precautionary ruling [Ihtiyat] is [involved] in some matter relating to one of them. So, if a weak Hadith is found to object against some types of sales or some form of marriages, then it is recommended to avoid it (i.e., the sale or the marriage) even when it is not obligatory to do so [and even when the sale or the marriage is legally valid]." [al-Nawawi, Adhkar, 7-8]

Back to topic, The hadith of Abu Bakr (ra):

Quote:

[Whenever he [Abu Bakr] heard the Mu'addhin say: "I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah", he would repeat this [phrase as it is the Mandub of Adhan] and would kiss the tip of the index fingers [or thumbs] and wipe his eyes. The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him!) said: whosoever does what my friend [i.e., Abu Bakr] did, my intercession will come down upon him] (Related by al-Daylami, with variants).

umm...which book is the hadeeth mentioned in? anybody?

Al Daylami and others... read the bottom of the quote.

WE HAVE ALL SAID WHAT WE NEEDED TO.

WE ARE JUST GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES AND HAVING POINTLESS ARGUMENTS.
THIS THREAD IS NOW LOCKED