I'd like to say that I didn't post this to have a go at the jews.
http://www.forward.com/main/printer-friendly.php?id=4805
The point is to show the hypocracy with which the western media deals with muslims. There was outrage by many in the media when muslims in Canada proposed to introduce islamic family law. If a muslim community this size banned (verbally) women from driving there would be a campaign against them from the media.
But Islam is evil.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
hmm interesting, what wud u call these ppl, cavejews?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
just 'cave people' is enough aint it?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
u find "cavepeople" in every religion
be it Islam/judaism/christinaity etc
they usually insecure sad pathetic men who like to exert their authority by misinterpreting teachings of their religion
Thats uncalled for. Many ulema also say that women shouldn't drive. My point was the double standards of the media.
u refering to the saudi ulema?
they say a lot of things regarding women-which have no basis in islam
we need to get an 'Islamic media'.
No none of the nauseous Islamic stuff done by muslims atm, but a proper media that reports it as it is. Have an alternative news channel. Not a 'muslim news' channel, but a proper news channel, which discusses subjects which are taboo, and goes into more detail than the nprmal channels.
Well Al Jazeerain english wold be a good start... but change the name to NewsCorpIntl...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I was thinking of the deobandis.
What do saudi scholars say that has no basis in Islam.
brother i wasnt saying anything abt the ulama. Basically some ppl accuse me of being a neanderathal and a caveman. I was just asking how they wud refer to the jews who ban women drivers? wud they be called cavejews?
I seek ALLAH's protection from insulting the ulama.
some ppl here have admitted to missing fajr salah regularly but feel no shame in condemning the noble ulama of Saudia. SubhanALLAH.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i only know of what I been told by someone living in Saudi
she said that saudi police say "driving is haraam for women and so is voting"
what is the islamic basis in that?
Islamic legal tradition is very diverse and so you will get opinions that conflict with your understanding of islam. The saudi scholars say voting for women is haram. Hizb-ut-tahrir say it is halal. Shaykh Abdalqadir as-sufi says democracy itself is islamically undesirable (although not definately haram).
I'm OK with differences of opinion-but I ONLY agree and follow the mass majority
and most scholars say that women CAN vote/drive etc
I have an issue with the scholars that go out of their way to oppress and hold women back
islam gives women rights
its sad when women have to fight for their God given rights-
i see nothing wrong with speaking out against them-but according to SOME judgemental cavemen I cant do this cos I sumtimes miss my Fajr :roll:
I wonder if the caveman has ever missed a Fajr in his life :roll:
who says driving is a god given right?
MuslimSis Lil Sis u got some seroius problems in logic. Driving is not a right for ANY1 its a privilege.
How u make driving a god given right is totally beyond me. The person who is under 17 cant even have a provisional licence in uk, even though he may be islamically mature, dont c u sayin they being denied their god given rigts. Person over 17 cant drive legally unless he/she has passed the test, no1 says he is denied his god given rights.
Lol, even whenm u get the driving licence it can be revoked and ur ''RIGHT'' to drive is taken away.
Why do u talk so illogically? Is it a mental problem or do u do it on purpose. Lil Sis ur funny.
mashaALLAH
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
get a life u caveman
when did i say "driving is a God given right"?
I said "its sad when women have to fight for their God given rights"
I wasnt specifically refering to driving
so put ur glasses on u fool :roll:
but then again I wouldnt expect any less from the "people of assumption"
How do you know?
k, whatevaa, salaam.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
ditto.
heard it in a lesson from a scholar.
He said "Most scholars say it is permissable for women to drive and vote"?
I would imagine there has been very little research done into the issue of women voting since democracy has never existed in most muslim countries.
Assalamu Alaikum,
Why can't women drive? The only argument I've heard is that women can cause fithna. They can waste their time galavanting around in their cars for no good reason other than chilling, playing music, going to places they shouldn't be in.
If this is the argument to ban women from driving on, well then none of us should be driving. Because I see brothers chilling out with their mates, and getting up to no good in their vehicles more than sisters. In fact I've never seen sisters doing that, even though many of them drive in the UK. So I can't say i respect the fatwa given, it sounds so hypocritical and unjust to ban one sex but permit the other, as if men are somehow morally superior, and less likely to sin?
Regardless of gender vehicles should only be used when there is a "need", and "cruising" with mates isn't a need for women or MEN.
I'm not a feminist but this fatwa just stinks. This is not what our religion is about. All rigid and favourable towards the male species, to the detriment of the other.
Men who argue women should only be accompanied by their mahram or public transport is safer. Well sorry brothers but public transport is not safe these days neither is walking in comparion to having your own vehicle.
For convenience also women need to do shopping, see doctors etc the mundane chores of life, and they can't always wait for husbands to return from work. By that time things are closed up. We have to be realistic. Where there is a need for men and women to drive it should be permitted.
I don't drive yet. I have all the amenities I require close by. But I feel for those sisters who are restricted in this way and cannot get out.
Med why does it appear as if men are given a God given right to vote and drive by certain ulema? If these aren't God given rights as you say why have fatwas been placed over them? It has been made into a Godly issue.
I thght voting in the democratic system was frowned upon regardless of gender? So where is the logic that men can vote but women can't? I don't believe in the voting system but if I knew there was a possibility the BNP could get into power then I would vote for the greater good, and Allah knows my intentions I don't care what chauvinistic men think. Men with double standards, playing the democratic system but preventing their sisters on the grounds of it being "haram". Well brother it's "halal" for you, but "haram" for me? You have no sense of honour or respect for the female species or the womb that bore you. It's sad that this is what Islam has been reduced to by some men.
Muhtaram u misunderstand me. I dont believe that voting is a god given right nor do i think driving is a god given right.
My point was that driving is not a God given right, its a privilege.
Fatwas have been placed over them to make clear the issue for the people regarding their permissibility or otherwise. For the record, I have not mentioned women ca drive, nor have I said they can. That is not in my knowledge to say. ALL I was saying is that it is not a god given right.
Muhtarama's objections to banning women are valid for her, but obviously the ulama who differ with her on this have their own stance. Again I reiterate that I have not said it is allowed or not, I have no right to hol opinion on thsi matter, and it has not been taught to us that it is halal/haram for women so i CANT comment further.
Sorry, if i made ppl think i supported voting or womendrivers. I maintain silence on the ruling and respect the views of both ulama but remember that taqwa is to go with the safer option and there are indeed leading hanafi ulama today who have issue with women driving, they have evidence including the ahadeeth referring to wome sitting on the saddles of camels towards the end days. ALLAH knows best and i am from the followers.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
inshallah gonna start me driving mid nxt year.....
the deobandi ulema do nt ban women from driving... i agree with med, we shoud nt disrespect the ulema in any way... naj u go girl-just mind the pedestrians
Gossip is the most destructive thing in the universe...
good point
ur entire post was very good
LOL dnt u wry bout it..im gna be a safe driver arite, not like all these
looneys u see dwn ere, think they own da roads...
doesnt 1 get angry when guyz tend to park in middle of the rd and hav a 2 min convo with nxt man, and build up a queue behind...they deserve a good bashin :twisted:
Assalamu Alaikum
Brother Med I do respect the scholars, but I can't say I agree with the double standards set. I can't understand why it's acceptable for men, but sinful for women, and no one can give me a satisfactory answer. If it can be explained then I'll accept it. But it just seems so unjust.
Right now I don't need a car but looking back in my life there were a few times when i could have done with one.
Uni-I was commuting, my coach or trains would get cancelled or just terminate half way on the journey without warning. Some days it would be quite dark out, and I'd be alone. I think I would have felt safer in my own transport. The worst part was getting the taxi home once i'd got off the train. Even in broad daylight I don't feel safe in these vehicles, how do you think I felt at night? Before you say I should have had a mahram, yes I should of but when we go uni how many of us have the luxury of devoted mahram to chaperone us all the time?
Hospital rounds- My mother needs to be taken to the hospital regularly. The main hospital is a 20/25 min drive away. Since my brother that drives was always at work I'd have to take my mother in a taxi. These journeys came near to a tenner there and a tenner back. Economically it would have be wise to have a car then don't you think?, and more comfy for my mother too.
Work- During winter, it gets dark early, and I'd be expected to work one late shift for xmas. My brother couldn't always pick me up. I'd walk home coz i didn't wana hang around for a bus, when ppl were lining up for the clubs and bars, and taxis i just didn't wana risk. I felt very vulnerable, especially in a headscarf and jilbab. Don't you reckon a car would have been far safer?
It would be ideal to have mahrams around all the time. I wouldn't object to it. But the reality is they can't always be there, they have to earn a living. For various reasons I had to go to work, so not working wasn't an option at the time.
My point being shouldn't the ulema take the banning of driving (for men&women) on a case by case basis? Look at the circumstances. If I had a car and was up to no good my parents would find out sooner or later and ban me anyway. Is it fair or practical to have the ulema ban all women even though most women are good decent individuals and are driving due to a real "need"?
I think I've dried out this topic now.
EXCELLENT! yashmaki very good points mashallah, driving for most women is a NEED, not every1 can have a mehram round 24/7...its a go ahead from some scholars i know, BUT its a privilege not a god given right
u go yash-
Islam is not a unpractical, extreme religion
too bad way too many people portray it as such
is anything-driving "increase's" a woman's pardah
if i had my license I would never have to walk it/bus it or use the busy trains
MashaALLAH it is gud u respect teh scholars. Im not fussed either way on this issue so if a woman wants to drive thats her choice, if she doesnt then thats her choice, doesnt bother me either way.
One thing I wud say is that u are still waiting for a satisfactory answer. Muhtarama with all due respect who are we to start demanding answers? Again I emphasise Im not fussed either way, I follow what my ustaadji says, whether my feeble mind understands it or not, I have confidence in the ability of the ulama that I follow. In this light, if u follow ulama in every issue and then those same ulama say women shouldnt drive then I dnt think u are in a postition to question their judgement. This, u understand, is all hypthetical.
Find some ulama u have confidence in, and stick with them inshaALLAH. But to think that we, non ulama, can comprehend the deen and its rulings without studying at the feet of ulama is foolishness.
Another thing to remember, is that there may be different rulings in different circumstances, the ulama of Saudia have ruled according to what they see as best for their society and ALHAMDULILLAH I am confident that they made th best ruling for their society. Subhanallah I am sure that incidents of fornication are far less widespread in the kingdom as compared to other arab countries. But like I said, to me this isnt a major issue,it doesnt fire me up or get me angry either way.
Alhamdulillah, the ulama have differed and they have validity in both sides. May ALLAH accept them ameen.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Actually we do need satisfactory answers.
We are not catholics, where the pope is always right.
We are muslims, and these issues need answers.
Otherwise Mufti'e azam of the revival (me) can make a fatwa without proof, and since you cannot ask for explanation of the fatwa, or look into my background (how insulting that would be!), you will have to accept it. That is not the Islamic way. Not even in taqleed.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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