Let's stop all this arguing by listening to some nice qawali.

www.virtualafghans.com/music/Islam/14.asx

(27 mins)

"Med" wrote:

''teri surat nigaahon mein phir rahe,
ishq tera sataaye to mein kya karoon

Your face keeps appearing before my eyes,
love for you torments me, what can I do''

Is the chorus of one of azeez mian's qawalis. Funny thing is he didnt have a beard or wear a topi or have any apparent connection with sunnah and he made songs about how much the face of Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam was always in his mind?

strange.

Strange, how do u know what was in his heart, Allah (swt) doesn't luk at ones appearcance but deep down to see what is truly in the individual's heart....

Hazrat Abu Hurraira (RA) reports that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said, “Allah Almighty does see neither your faces nor your bodies but he sees your hearts. (And there are words in another tradition), “Verily Allah Almighty does not see your faces or your wealth/property but takes your intentions in view.

Muslim, as-Sahih, , Book of reward (4:1986#2564)

Hazrat Sahl Bin Saad reports that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said, “The intention of the believer is superior to his action and the action of hypocrite is superior to his intention. So every one acts upon his intentions. And when believer performs an act, a fountain of light springs out from his heart.”

Tabrani, Al-Moujam-al-kabir (6:185#5942)

As you can see from the aboce Ahadith intentions matter more as opposed to the appearance. I just found it weird that you can judge sum1 based on the fact that he didnt have a beard when you clearly dont know what is in his heart!

That Qawali "mai sharabi sharabi is class"! Good choice hayder

No I dont know what is in his heart. But we are to judge and treat a person based on what is apparent. Hence if a person reads kalima in hiding but never reveals that he has imaan then we would treat him as a kafir, he would be buried according to the nonmuslim customs but in his heart he may well be a believer. Similirly a person may externally be a believer and be treated as one, but inside is an apostate or a hypocrite, but we would treat him on what is apparent.

So yes I agree that I cant make full statement on his heart. That is between him and ALLAH, May ALLAH forgive him. But the point is that he made tall claims of love.

Making claims of love is not sufficient to establish love. It is noted that people of a certain sect walk around doing marches, and bday parties etc and say we ashiq e rasul we this we that. True ishq is to love all those things which Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam loved and to hate the things He salallahu alayhi wa sallam hated. Hence ppl who make tall claims of love that is not enough. Actions speak louder than words.

I have met alhamdulillah some people who on their mouths never have they said they claim love for Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. Yet everything about them is according to sunnah, their bodies testify to that which their tongues do not profess. On the other hand some people profess love but their actions oppose it?

By my understanding of love it is the love that Sahabah Karaam radhiyallahu anhum ajmaeen had. They didnt make no bday parties or sing qawwalis. But the way they behaved testified to what their tongues and hearts did not disclose.

"Med" wrote:

1. Next time I come across a qawwali I will inshaALLAH make a mental note of the shirkiya statement.

2. Generally they are from punjab, they are shall we say extremely well fed, they do dress in fancy clothes, and they do sit and torment the Awlliya with their songs.

Allah has chosen that deobandi masjid to be the house where his servants come to when penitent and when remembering ALLAH.

Excuse me brother, regarding your first statement in the previous post you said the Qawwal commit shirk during the Qawwalis, and now when someone asked you to provide proof of such accusation you say you will make a mental note, I suggest that before you make any sort of accusations get your facts right.

Secondly, how do you know they torment the Awliya? Have you met a saint, have you heard them say such a thing? Or do you have to go and make a mental note of that as well? :roll:

Allah chooses whom ever he wants, and you by no means can question Allah upon whom he showers His blessing upon!!!

As angel said Allah judges people by their intention and not by their faces!!!

You can keep a beard and have the intention that people are going to consider you a pious, religious and a practising muslim, and this same act can be rejected in the court of Allah Almighty because you keeping the beard was for others and not pleasure of Allah.

So you see everything depends on intention!!!! Which you nor I can see in the hearts of others.

Lol. Surprise Surprise!

IshaALLAH I will get my facts right.

Regarding awliya. If a wali spent his entire life in poverty spreading the message of deen, if the wali spent his entire life calling people away from merriment and music and called them to the dhikr of ALLAH, if the wali spent his life calling the people away from the constricts of shirk to the vastness of tawheed. To ''honour'' the wali by singing songs attributing ALLAH'S qualities to the wali, or to have music flouting around the grave where the wali can hear the music, and also putting scarves on the graves if this isnt torturing the ALLAH Wali then what is?

All his life the Allah Wali spent in tawheed, poverty, abstaining from music and in honour of the wali you spend lavish money on dupattas, and music and shirk. What is this rubbish?

ALLAH save us.

lol ...dont bother

"NaJ/19" wrote:

lol ...dont bother

?

u mean dont bother gettin my facts straight cos ppl aint interested?

let people believe what they want to...we know whats right innit,

its like talking to a brick wall, this masla will stay

inshaALLAH. May ALLAH guide us all. ameen

the nature of a wali has been amply stated in the sufi thread it is not wise to lump all wali together for they differ greatly in their lifestyles but all have one aim to please Allah

some liked music some did not

"seema*" wrote:

some liked music some did not

now to me, THAT is an extremely dodgy statement. seeing as music is haraam. a wali who likes music? hmmm

I agree that Awliya differed greatly and thats the beauty of Islam that it is vast enough for peoples different personalities to flourish and accomplish great things. But , in my view, certain things are standard. Like we all say that every wali was a five-time namazi cos thats essential. Similarly by us, the music is haraam so all the awliya abstained from it and thus music by their graves is a wrong act.

yes it is like talking to a brick wall!

:twisted:

the whole point being there are probably dodgy qawal's. There are probably people who make wrong statements.

However slandering everyone is wrong. saying its shirk without proof is wrong. Shirk is the biggest crime one can commit, so the accusation should never be used lightly.

So going around shouting shirk! shirk! mushrik! shirk! is not a good thing.

you can be like 118 118 got your...

:twisted:

And I do not know anyone who attributes Allah's qualities to anyone but allah. Or of any qawali that does.

I do not listen to many qawali's. not my taste. But before making a declaration of kufr and shirk, I would be careful.

And Allah IS all powerful. He can give anyone the power of what he desires to give that individual? after all he has given the ability to hear even afer death, who are we to limit the generosity of Allah (swt)?

and not all music is haraam. Tambourine is defo allowed. It was even used in the presence of the Prophet (saw).

brother I didnt say the ENTIRE poetry in qawwali is shirk. U misunderstand me.

I am saying that often, in fact MOST times the qawwali will contain statements of shirk. Calling a spade a spade is not wrong.

"Med" wrote:

brother I didnt say the ENTIRE poetry in qawwali is shirk. U misunderstand me.

I am saying that often, in fact MOST times the qawwali will contain statements of shirk. Calling a spade a spade is not wrong.

asking to see the spade is not wrong either.

After all in the matrix there is no spoon.

If there is shirk in MOST qawali's ot will be easier to prove your point.

We will note them, and when a radio station broadcasts it, we should contact them saying 'its shirk bro...'

Now can I see the spoon erm... spade... erm .. proof....

I dont have a collection of these qawwalis so I can only say that next time I come across a qawwali i will make comment.

ok.

and until then can you stop the acusations aswell?

heard a qawwali today on tv.....the guyz had alot of jewellery on,and the way they move they hands and head is sooooo funny

"NaJ/19" wrote:

heard a qawwali today on tv.....the guyz had alot of jewellery on,and the way they move they hands and head is sooooo funny

yup.

Its all about the money.

lol

"Med" wrote:

Regarding awliya. If a wali spent his entire life in poverty spreading the message of deen, if the wali spent his entire life calling people away from merriment and music and called them to the dhikr of ALLAH, if the wali spent his life calling the people away from the constricts of shirk to the vastness of tawheed. To ''honour'' the wali by singing songs attributing ALLAH'S qualities to the wali, or to have music flouting around the grave where the wali can hear the music, and also putting scarves on the graves if this isnt torturing the ALLAH Wali then what is?

All his life the Allah Wali spent in tawheed, poverty, abstaining from music and in honour of the wali you spend lavish money on dupattas, and music and shirk. What is this rubbish?

ALLAH save us.

Ehmmmmmm, name one wali who has called people away from shirk????

And just to point brother, there are certain attributes of Allah Almighty which are specific to Him alone, and if these attributes are for someone other than Allah Almighty then that is classified as Shirk.

May Allah guide you to the true path (ameen)

When a Muslim engages in an abundance of ibâdah, abstains from sins, does not become attached to the world, and follows the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in every way, he becomes the friend and beloved of Allâh Ta'âla. Such a person is called a wali. At times, a wali does certain acts which cannot be done by others. These acts are called karamât (miracles, or noble and excellent deeds).

* Making ruku of the graves.
* Making sajdah to the graves.
* Making tawaaf of the graves.
* Kissing the graves.
* Reversing away from the graves in a show of excessive veneration for the graves.
* Decorating the graves with expensive bedding.
* Placing foodstuff at the graves.
* Arranging festivals and fairs at the graves

this is all shirk,
One who commits shirk with Allah, is as if he has fallen from the sky; then some bird (of prey) snatched him or a wind blew him and deposited him in afar away deep pit (of darkness)."

anyone know of any WALI who has not called anyone from SHIRK.

In explaining this aayah Ibn Mas'ood (RA) said:
"Wallaahi Laa ilaaha illaa huwa this refers to music and singing."
The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, "There will come among my nation a group of people making permissible the wearing of silk (for men) the drinking of wine, and the usage of musical instruments." [Al-Bukhaari

"NaJ/19" wrote:

When a Muslim engages in an abundance of ibâdah, abstains from sins, does not become attached to the world, and follows the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in every way, he becomes the friend and beloved of Allâh Ta'âla. Such a person is called a wali. At times, a wali does certain acts which cannot be done by others. These acts are called karamât (miracles, or noble and excellent deeds).

* Making ruku of the graves.
* Making sajdah to the graves.
* Making tawaaf of the graves.
* Kissing the graves.
* Reversing away from the graves in a show of excessive veneration for the graves.
* Decorating the graves with expensive bedding.
* Placing foodstuff at the graves.
* Arranging festivals and fairs at the graves

this is all shirk,
One who commits shirk with Allah, is as if he has fallen from the sky; then some bird (of prey) snatched him or a wind blew him and deposited him in afar away deep pit (of darkness)."

anyone know of any WALI who has not called anyone from SHIRK.

Can i just point something sister, apart from the ruku, the sajda, all the rest do not apply to Allah Almighty as Allah does not eat or drink, you don't do tawaf around Allah, you cant kiss Allah, Allah is everywhere so you can't walk in the backward manner.

I'm sorry but to me people who say such things are the ones committing shirk because they are trying to associate the human attributes to Allah Almighty.

Does anyone here agree with me on this (does not refer to med or naj as they both agree with one another, whether someone is telling them the truth or not)

[color=red]can you first answer my question please, i didnt ask who a wali is, but asked name me a wali who has explicitly abstained people from shirk[/color]

Lol.

Amber you misunderstand. When we do sajdah or ruku, ALLAH is not infront of us either. It is a wall or a prayer mat. Yet if someone does ruku/sajdah to a grave it is accepted as shirk.

Similarly tawaaf is only an act of ibadah which is done around kabatullah. To make tawaf of graves is shirk becuase it is an ibadah which is exclusive for ALLAH.

Muhtarama Naj u were right about brick walls. Saying that we shouldnt be excessively respectful of the grave is called shirk, lol

Err. I thought ALL Awliya preached against shirk.But for your benefit Hadrat Khawaja Moinuddeen Chishti Ajmeri, also known as Hadrat Ghareeb Nawaz, preached against shirk, hence he converted thousands of hindus to islam.

"NaJ/19" wrote:

In explaining this aayah Ibn Mas'ood (RA) said:
"Wallaahi Laa ilaaha illaa huwa this refers to music and singing."
The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, "There will come among my nation a group of people making permissible the wearing of silk (for men) the drinking of wine, and the usage of musical instruments." [Al-Bukhaari

WAH WAH!

bhot khoob.

Truth has come and falsehood has perished, for falsehood by its very nature is doomed to perish.

"Med" wrote:

Saying that we shouldnt be excessively respectful of the grave is called shirk, lol

Hadrat Khawaja Moinuddeen Chishti Ajmeri, also known as Hadrat Ghareeb Nawaz, preached against shirk, hence he converted thousands of hindus to islam.

I would prefer if you called me sister, i gave you the respect of a brother and i expect the same in return.

Can I ask what else did Hazrat Moinudeen Chisti Ajmeri (RA) do to convert these hindus to muslims????

How does excessive respect to graves contribute to shirk? As far as my understanding went as long as you don't prostrate before the grave, showing respect is not shirk.

Anyway who does tawaf of the grave?????

I took you for a man. I apologise Muhtarama, but I dislike using word sister.

My point regarding the grave is that ppl commit exessive acts at gravesides and supplicate to the inmate and this is shirk. Even a certain person on sunnipath has permitted the asking directly from the inmates and this is a great sin.

Tawaf and graves? You woud be surprised how many do it. And as for leaving food at the graves, what is with that?

My relatives on special days go and leave laddoo, or a glass of milk at the foot of our ancestors graves in pak, I dont understand that practice and it seems well dodgy.

"Med" wrote:

My relatives on special days go and leave laddoo, or a glass of milk at the foot of our ancestors graves in pak, I dont understand that practice and it seems well dodgy.

I dont agree with leaving the food at the graves, and i dont understand why the people even do such an act.

k.

Can any1 shed some light on why food is left at graves?

"NaJ/19" wrote:

When a Muslim engages in an abundance of ibâdah, abstains from sins, does not become attached to the world, and follows the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in every way, he becomes the friend and beloved of Allâh Ta'âla. Such a person is called a wali. At times, a wali does certain acts which cannot be done by others. These acts are called karamât (miracles, or noble and excellent deeds).

1 Making ruku of the graves.
2 Making sajdah to the graves.
3 Making tawaaf of the graves.
4 Kissing the graves.
5 Reversing away from the graves in a show of excessive veneration for the graves.
6 Decorating the graves with expensive bedding.
7 Placing foodstuff at the graves.
8 Arranging festivals and fairs at the graves

this is all shirk,
One who commits shirk with Allah, is as if he has fallen from the sky; then some bird (of prey) snatched him or a wind blew him and deposited him in afar away deep pit (of darkness)."

anyone know of any WALI who has not called anyone from SHIRK.

1,2,3 are clearly wrong. no-one defends that. If there are people who do that they need to see a scholar. all scholars of all sects ban that. (and as amber said, number 3 is not shirk anyway... we do not worship the kaabah... or is tawaf shirk full stop?)

4. while I myself would not do that, how is it shirk? same with 6?

number 5 is about respect. I would not do that, and nor would anyone IO know (as far as I know), but again how is that shirk?

re number 7, who leaves food behind? the food will just spoil. Unless it is left for the poor... but first time I have heard of it...

number 8, how is that shirk? I understand you mean a religious gathering and not a circus? praying for the deceased is allowed. having a religious gathering calling people to Islam near a grave has no problems.

So please clarify your understanding of shirk.