I appreciate your advice.

1. clothing and intermixing are not the only things I talk about. You will note I have also mentioned about forced marriages in the relevant thread, about MQM in the relevant thread etc. In my view those who place little importance on these issues tend to think I put too much on them. I assure you I am not only concerned about clothing and intermixing but for sure I AM concerned about them.

2. By us yes drugs and everything else are important. But no thread has come up on these topics recently.

3. Regarding Judda. I have made it a habit not to respond to what he is writing about because it is clear to me he is not a muslim nor is he intersted in learning. Rather he is only here to cause controversy. So I do not bother to read his posts, merely mentioned a few times that he is uttering kufr and has left islam if he ever was in islam.

4. I have only ritten essays on women and masajid, you will note with the other topics I have only mdae passing comments so your saying I writing essays on these is not actually true.

5. Yes I need to learn the priorities. But by us not taking drugs, establishing salah is just as priority worthy as wearing sunnah clothes, abstaining from intermingling and not making pictures. If the outside is rotten, the inside is worse.

Islamic clothing is VERY important.

Editor if I am not mistaken you were the one providing quotes and essays about pictures, clothing, imitiation of kuffar women and masajid etc. I only provided such things with women and masajid so rather you are the one writng essays. I am only making comment

dont discourage thr brother from providing his views and evidence

its a discusiion board....not an agreement board :x

makes it fun 4 us 2 watch

"Medievalist" wrote:

Editor if I am not mistaken you were the one providing quotes and essays about pictures, clothing, imitiation of kuffar women and masajid etc. I only provided such things with women and children so rather you are the one writng essays. I am only making comment

only because you turned it in to a massive issue..and i had to respond. Also you posess more lnowledge bro...

i have to be honest i do disagree with you alot....simply because we see Islam from different angles, i enjoy our discussions. i have learnt from them, inshallah.

anyway...i like your earlier responce.

but try to focus on the misconceptions more... and give Muslim youth and especially sisters more encouragement rather than criticism...youth find it hard to practise islam today, they need help not us to have a go at them, if you know what i mean.
ok bro, take care
wasalaam

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

only because you turned it in to a massive issue..and i had to respond.

brother again I say to you I only made correct argument in the thread ''Hijab and Jeans''. With the imitation of kuffar, and pictures threads I am pretty sure I have not made any big issue. I just made passing comments.

1. In Imitating kuffar thread you gave the fourth post outlining in detail your stance. I posted as the 9th post just saying personally when I make a decision I try to go for the best one, the one closest to sunnah. I have yet to comment on your version of imitation of kuffar. I dont think I have made big issue there. Again brother you gave your views on imitation, I have not made any comment on your post, merely said when I choose I try to choose closest to sunnah.

2. Further in the same thread I commented how some men are not wearing proper clothing for salah which often results in shape of buttock or even sight of buttocks being visible. You responded by sayin I am obsessed with clothing. Again saying people should wear loose decent clothing for salah is not a big issue, I havent made it one.

3. Taking Pictures thread. My initial post is number 22, yours apporx number 8. In my post I merely said to Muhtarama that she should refer to her alim relatives or teachers and that I agreed with her teachers stance. No response to your post number 8 or anything more about pics is mentioned.

4. Taking Pictures onm page you have contributed a great deal to the topic. You make 5 hefty posts. I make a post a little while later saying 5 points dua for muhtaramas father, encouraging muhtarama to keep respect for her teachers, commenting on how difficult it is too wear picture clothes AND read salah 5 times, other alternatives to displaying pics ad how i am uncomfortable with pics of shaykhs. Nothing major or controversial there I dont think.

To this post you respond that you dont think pics of leaders etc should be displayed. We dont have any issues on that. Again no major controversy started by me. Rather you have more deeper discussions with other people in this thread notably Muhtarama Yashmaki.

5. If you again check the imitating kuffar and taking picture thread you will note that I am sayin ttruth. And I ahve in both posts DELIBERATELY not made comments that will turn it inot a massive issue. Please explain how I amde those into massive issues? I only gave a view in each post and particularly in pics thread the only issue between me and you was that u agreed with me that u also don agree with displaying pics of shaykhs. In imitating kuffar thread also I have not said anything out of the ordinary I dont think.

6. Women and masajid. I wholly accept that that thread has major contribution from me. However I am not sure about me making major issues in the other threads. I could easily do so if u wish(!)

7. I agree there is much lacking in my approach. The thing is in forums its all theory not action. In practice I come across quite differently but on paper I seem different. Yes the young people need to be encouraged and welcomed but not at the expense of genuine religious teaching.

just a question....before anyone accuses me of being "hostile" or wotever... :roll:

do u have to dress like a pakistani peasent to be a muslim?

does dressin like an arab make u a better muslim?

i thought u just needed to dress modestly....

no and no

theyre misconceptions embedded in your mind protrayed thru the media :roll:

u aint the shaprest tool in the box are u hyper?

now i startin to understand how omrow the dungon master feels....

JESUS H CHRIST !!!

GOD !!

it wasnt a real question hyder!

why ask then :roll:

and can someone please tell me what Jesu's middle name was?? H?

deleted

being a muslim is a matter of the heart. However by us it is that the inner condition is made manifest on the external condition. Those who have no iman remain in state of physical impurity, they do not know what is ghusl and what is wudhu. Those people who have pure hearts maintain a pure external by staying constantly in wudhu and not remaining in either major or minor impurity. And between the two there are varying degrees.

So although a person may dress as george bush, or as james bond he may still have imaan in his heart but the stronger the imaan the more manifest it is in ones clothing, mode of speech, mannerisms etc because these things a person naturally adapts to the Holy Sunnah.

"St George" wrote:

just a question....before anyone accuses me of being "hostile" or wotever... :roll:

do u have to dress like a pakistani peasent to be a muslim?

does dressin like an arab make u a better muslim?

i thought u just needed to dress modestly....

good point georgy pie

"St George" wrote:

just a question....before anyone accuses me of being "hostile" or wotever... :roll:

do u have to dress like a pakistani peasent to be a muslim?

does dressin like an arab make u a better muslim?

i thought u just needed to dress modestly....

You can dress how ever you wish, english clothes, western clothes, asian, arab, african clothing etc...it doesnt matter.
The only thing to bare in mind is that the clothes have to fit the conditions that they are loose, they dont reveal the outlines of your body or reveal your body. For a woman the whole body must be covered from head to toe apart from the face, hands and feet...and for the man from the navel up to the knees.
If these conditions are met then it doesnt matter what you wear, by wearing a robe or asian salwaar kameez or a pair of trousers does not make you a good, bad, better or worse Muslim.
To be a Muslim you just have to belief in the fundamentals of Islam and the best Muslim is the one who follows and practises Islam completely.

deleted

TOTALLY agree with Hadrat Mufti's comments.

"yashmaki" wrote:

[b]Question:
Is it an option to follow Sunnah?[/b]

People say that it is not obligatory to follow sunnah in each and every thing. They say Rasool Allah was different than human beings and could do many things that an ordinary human being can't do. They say that there were some qualities in Rasool Allah which were preoredained or predestined, like only his eyes used to sleep, not his heart. Humans can't have those qualites. And also, they say that Rasool Allah never asked us to have a beard, or to dress like him, eat like him etc. They say, now things are changed and we don't have to follow Rasool Allah in certain aspects. Is it an option to follow Sunnah? People say, there are many (modern) islamic scholors who wear a suit and dont have a beard. What are the things that Rasool Allah ordered us to do? Plz give some verses and hadiths. Thanx

[b]Answer:[/b]

We concede that there were some qualities in Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) which were specific and special to him. But to deduce from this fact that we don't have to follow Rasulullah's (Salla Allahu alayhhi wa salam) way of life is totally out of context and absolutely incorrect. In fact, the pride of Islam is that is offers a system of life superior to all others. It is obligatory to follow the Sunnah of Rasulullah (SAlla Allahu alayhi wa salam) in all walks of life. The verses and Ahadith confirming this are too numerous to mention here. We will reproduce a few of them below:

1) Allah Ta'ala says, "Whatever the Messenger gives you, then grasp
it (implement it) and whatever he prohibits you then stay away from it. (Surah Hashr: Verse 7)

2) Allah Ta'ala says, "Say (Oh Muhammad (Salla Allahu alayhi wa
salam) if you love Allah follow me, then Allah will love you and forgive your sins. (Surah Ale Imran: Verse 31)

3) Allah Ta'ala says, "Indeed in the messenger of Allah is a
beautiful lifestyle for you, if you have hope for (meeting) Allah and for the last day.(Surah Ahzaab: Verse 21)

4) Irbaadh ibn Saariyah (RA) reports, "Raulullah (Salla ALlahu
alayhi wa salam) once advised us with such eloquence that our hearts trembled and our eyes flowed with tears. We said, "O' Rasulullah, as though this is the advice of one bidding farewell therefore advise us. RASULULLAH (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) said, "I advise you to fear Allah and to hear and obey even if a slave is made your leader. Whoever lives after me will indeed see many divisions, therefore follow my way and the way of the Khulafa-e-Raashideen (the rightly guided Khaleefas) cling to it with your teeth , and stay away from innovations for indeed every innovation is misguidance. (Riyadhus Saliheen: #157)

5) Abu Hurairah (RA) reports that the Prophet (Salla Allahu alayhi
wa salam) said, "My entire ummah will enter jannah except he who refuses. The sahaba enquired, "Who will refuse O' Rasulullah? Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) said, "Whoever obeys me will enter jannah, and whoever disobeys me, he has refused."(Bukhari)

From the above it is apparent that it is obligatory to follow the sunnah of Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam). The contention that Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) never asked us to keep a beard, or to dress like him, or eat like him is totally false. In regards to the beard, Nabi (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) has said, "Oppose the mushrikeen, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard." (Muslim #500) Nabi (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) has also given us guidelines on how to dress. Ubaid ibn Khalid Al-Muhaarabi (RA) says, " I was once walking in Madina when a person behind called out behind me, "Raise your lower garment, for indeed it is closer to taqwa and more effective in protecting your clothes!" The sahabi says, "I turned around and that person was Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) then I said, "O' Rasulallah, this is a malha cloth (low quality garment)." Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) replied, "Don't you find in me a beautiful example?" I looked at Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa
salam) and I found that his lower garment ended in the middle of his calves. (Shamaail Tirmidhi) Like this, Rasulullah (Salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) has given us directives and shown us by example how to lead our lives. Obviously to narrate all of them is beyond the scope of this answer. Books like Riyadhus Saliheen which have been translated into English will provide great insight into this. As for modern day scholars who wear suits and shave their beards, they are in no way a proof for substantiating the leaving out of the sunnah, rather they are a shame on Islam and a dishonour to the knowledge they have acquired.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

FOR-Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

CHECKED and APPROVED: Moulana Emraan Vawda

REf:http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=10729

is the mufti sahb trying to say that we souldnt or cant wear a suit, jeans, top, cap, football shirt etc because that is going against the sunnah?

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"yashmaki" wrote:

that's a decision you have to make yourself, based on the evidences before you.

no i was asking you a question, wanted clarification, because from the evidence provided i think that is what the mufti sahb is trying to say which i totally disagree with.

everyone wants and tries to follow sunnah to its upmost

also we have to differentiate between sunnat e muakkadah and gayr muakkadah

if its muakkadah u have to do, if u dont its a sin
gayr muakkadah, if u dont do its not a sin, if u do u get reward...

bear dis sunnat muakkedah and some say wajib, so u HAVE to keep a beard.... but the rest eg clothes, turban, hat, jubba is not muakkedah.

like i said previous any clothes which follow islamic criterion are islamic, they may not be sunnah, but are islamic ie. loose, cant see outline of body etc...

obviously we should [b]try[/b] to eat like the Prophet (saw), dress like him, walk like him, sleep like him, talk like him etc....
eg it is sunnah to wear turban...but if u dont is that a sin? no! is there an open command to say you should, you must, its a sin otherwise- no! so that means if u wear it its good and rewarding, if u dont..there is no sin and u cant accuse people for leaving or turning away from the sunnah or the way of the prophet simply because an optional act of the prophet was not followed.

am i making any sense here?

bottom line- if u dont do something in the way the prophet did, for whatever reason, and that action is not fardh, waajib, sunnat e muakkidah , then there is no harm in not doing it.

"yuit" wrote:

I agree with Yash and Med on the subject. It all about indentity, today I find it hard to differiante a muslim from a non muslim. It also turn out that I can't really tell the difference in action as well. For many there is no different. However, the muslims who have a clear identity of being a muslim seem to shine out IMO. It not about Halal and Haraam in this case, it about preference. I believe the littlest thing will affect the way you will act. So in today environment I believe it important to stand out as a muslim as much as possible and too what ever the situation you are in allow you too.

stand out as a muslim?

the sahabah did not stand out because of the way they were dressed but because of their ettiquett, manners, behaviour, wisdom, practise....

if i work for a big firm and i wear a suit everyday but my behaviour , ettiquett, manners, practise is islamic...am i a less of a muslim, further away from the sunnah simply becasue i dont wear a turban, jubba, hat, hold a miswaak in my hand????

i dont get your thinking!

I will not get into legalities as I have not got into them upto this stage.

Suffice to say that in the time of Sahabah Karaam no1 asked what was sunnah, what was muakkadah sunnah, what acts is makruh tahrimi, what is mubah, what is mustahab, what is makruh tanzihi. These categories came later for us weak in imaan because we try to get away with doing the minimum where it suits us by saying that thing isnt fard or wajib or sunnah muakkadah, and when we want to do things that are doubtful or suspect we say that thing isnt haraam, makruh, it is mubah., it is bidah hasana etc.

This is our weakness.

The Sahabah Karaam ridhwanullahi ta'ala alayhim ajameen acted on every slightest approval and disapproval of Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. May ALLAH grant us tawfeeq to follow every sunnah regardless of what its status because even the most ''insignificant'' sunnah in th eyes of the people is a salvation for us. ameen Ya Rabbal Alameen.

"Medievalist" wrote:

I will not get into legalities as I have not got into them upto this stage.

Suffice to say that in the time of Sahabah Karaam no1 asked what was sunnah, what was muakkadah sunnah, what acts is makruh tahrimi, what is mubah, what is mustahab, what is makruh tanzihi. These categories came later for us weak in imaan because we try to get away with doing the minimum where it suits us by saying that thing isnt fard or wajib or sunnah muakkadah, and when we want to do things that are doubtful or suspect we say that thing isnt haraam, makruh, it is mubah., it is bidah hasana etc.

This is our weakness.

The Sahabah Karaam ridhwanullahi ta'ala alayhim ajameen acted on every slightest approval and disapproval of Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. May ALLAH grant us tawfeeq to follow every sunnah regardless of what its status because even the most signifcant sunnah in th eyes of the people is a salvation for us. ameen Ya Rabbal Alameen.

a good speech...but you dodged the question.

I agree with ed.. there should be more emphasis placed on the character of a person as your way of behaviour with others is what will attract them towards you, so if you behave in a decent manner that will leave a good impression not only about you but also bout islam...As long as one is dressed in a way which is modest and according to shariah what is wrong with that?

Yes Muhtarama. Excellent character is a must. But this thread is to do with imitation of kuffar. If a thread was started on character then character would be discussed, here imitation is the topic so that is what is being discussed.

People should not assume (and I am speaking in general) that just because someone is talking about islamic clothing that he just considers islam to end there. No. The topic is imitation and during the coversations the issues of clothing came up so that is what is being discussed. If a person opened a topic on character than I am sure that the same people who discussed the importance of sunnah clothing would also palce just as much importance and emphasis on sunnah character. They are not mutually exclusive.

"Medievalist" wrote:

Yes Muhtarama. Excellent character is a must. But this thread is to do with imitation of kuffar. If a thread was started on character then character would be discussed, here imitation is the topic so that is what is being discussed.

People should not assume (and I am speaking in general) that just because someone is talking about islamic clothing that he just considers islam to end there. No. The topic is imitation and during the coversations the issues of clothing came up so that is what is being discussed. If a person opened a topic on character than I am sure that the same people who discussed the importance of sunnah clothing would also palce just as much importance and emphasis on sunnah character. They are not mutually exclusive.

please can you not call me "muhtarama", what does it mean, please call me sis, i dont like the sound of muhtarama..umm who decides what i can/cannot discuss i was mentioning that character is a good thing...i also mentioned ppl shouldnt get all hyped up bout the dress sense as long as it is according to shariah..just because someone dresses in a certain way doesn't make him/her less of a muslim..

I apologise for calling you Muhtarama.

You can discuss anything under the sun. I was merely explaining that just because some here are emphasising sunnah clothing does not mean that they place no importance on excellent character.

Just for information purposes Muhtarama means Respected Lady.

I apologise for any offence caused Lady.

"yuit" wrote:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

"yuit" wrote:

I agree with Yash and Med on the subject. It all about indentity, today I find it hard to differiante a muslim from a non muslim. It also turn out that I can't really tell the difference in action as well. For many there is no different. However, the muslims who have a clear identity of being a muslim seem to shine out IMO. It not about Halal and Haraam in this case, it about preference. I believe the littlest thing will affect the way you will act. So in today environment I believe it important to stand out as a muslim as much as possible and too what ever the situation you are in allow you too.

stand out as a muslim?

the sahabah did not stand out because of the way they were dressed but because of their ettiquett, manners, behaviour, wisdom, practise....

if i work for a big firm and i wear a suit everyday but my behaviour , ettiquett, manners, practise is islamic...am i a less of a muslim, further away from the sunnah simply becasue i dont wear a turban, jubba, hat, hold a miswaak in my hand????

i dont get your thinking!

See thats why I wrote in as much case as possible, at work you can not help it. I talking about in everyday life, in your leisure time as people call it. Now if I walking into town centre wearing my juba and hat and whatever esle, I am going to be much more aware of my action and the way I go about things.

LOL

again ..i dont see the relation..if u wear jubba and hat its gonna make u do good things and keep u away from the bad?
and if u wear jeans, cap, shirt, trousers its gonna make u do bad things, or makes it harder to do good things?
im sorry but i dont agree.

people who wear jubba, hat etc i respect it, but i dont think any less of those who dont. to me they are as good a muslim as the one wearing jubba , hat etc if not better...depending on their character etc