I know some people ain't going to like the fact I used the word kuffar, but that their problems. :twisted:
I always found this subject interesting. Where do we draw the line when we hear this statement, what does it exactly mean to imitate the kuffar. Is it by the clothes, food and entertainment we seek, or is it strictly a lifestyle question.
It is stated that, Whoever imitates a group, then he belongs to them." Abu Dawood, narrated by Hadhrat Ibn Umar (R.A). But does this problem really exist in all the minor aspect, or is it only defined in the major action that we undertake.
Where are we meant to exactly draw the line on this subject. I personally find it confusing :?
good topic
u can copy them as much as u want
if the queen eats crumpets with tea so can we
if JLo wears jeans so can muslim women (at home-not in front of men)
if Rupert in ur maths class eats Roast dinner on Sundays-so can we (if its halaal)
if prince william likes to play Polo-so can we
u can copy them as much as u want
as long as u dont break any islamic laws in the process
The reason why I ask the question is that the people that I normally meet and who inspire me in my everyday life, have a very strong islamic indentity, I look too them and see Islam and the way it should be practice. They manage to create a balance through the two. But too many people get caught into the trap, where they used one more then the other and it does dilute their islam. Where do we exactly draw the line. Because by accepting and taking on all the little things are we in fact getting further away from islam, without realising it?
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
salaam
here we are talking about tasshab'uh...imitating the kufaar
its simply really:
Imitating means trying to be like someone, which the fuqahaa' understand to mean being similar in a certain way to the person whom one is imitating. The Muslim is not permitted to imitate the kuffaar by wearing clothing that is unique to them and for which they are known, like the belt worn by Christian monks, or the distinctive headgear of Magians (Zoroastrians) and Jews, because of the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." (Reported by Abu Dawood, 4/314).
[b]The scholars have specified that the prohibition of imitation applies in two cases:[/b]
1. Where what is imitated is clothing that is characteristic of the kuffaar, not things that are worn by others too or things that used to be distinct to them but have now become widespread among other groups too - like the jeans etc.
2. When the act of imitation happens at a time when the clothing in question is characteristic of the kuffaar. This is because al[b][i]-Haafiz Ibn Hajar [/i][/b](may Allaah have mercy on him) reported that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) saw some people wearing shawl-like garments over their heads and shoulders, and said, "They look like the Jews of Khaybar." Ibn Hajar commented: "This could be used as evidence that this kind of garment was characteristic of the Jews at that time, but this is no longer the case, so that garment is now counted as something that is in general permitted." (Fath al-Baari, 10/275).
The scholars also made an exception concerning Muslims wearing the distinctive clothes of the kuffaar when living in daar al-harb (non-Muslim countries which are at war with Muslims) or for purposes which will benefit the Muslims. [b]Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: [/b]
"When a Muslim is living in a non-Muslim land (whether or not it is hostile to Islam), he is not expected to differ from them (the kuffaar) in his outward appearance, because of the harm that may result (from dressing as a Muslim). It is preferable, even obligatory, for a man to look like them sometimes, if that will achieve some religious purpose such as calling them to Islam, finding out their secrets in order to tell the Muslims about them, repelling their harm from the Muslims, and other worthwhile aims.
But in the Muslim lands where Allaah has caused His religion to prevail, and where the kuffaar are in an inferior position and are paying jizyah (taxes paid by non-Muslims living under an Islamic government), it is obligatory for Muslims to look different from the kuffaar." (Iqtidaa' al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem, 1/418).
now when it comes to wearing jeans, foorball shirts, caps, hairstyles, slang words, food which is halaal etc theer should be no argument here..ye sth enon muslims also do them, wear them, eat them but thats because we live in a non muslim country and that is the culture and most importantly it does not make any shari' rules.
now when you talk about celebrating [b]christmas, easter, april fools [/b]etc to take part in these practices it means you are celebrating something which is not from Islam, no evidence from Quran, sunnah, ijma, qiyas, classical scholars etc.... the main reason here it is not allowed is because muslims have their own celebrations and are told to stick to them...and also these celebrations are distinguished with non muslims/christians/ non believers etc....
i hope this clears the matter slightly.
wasalaam
So what would people say if their imaam led jamaat in a Arsenal Shirt, would it be a big deal. Because if it isn't alright for him, why is it ok for the majority?
Also at the moment alot of people say that we should completely intergrate into society and we should not wear anything that is islamic as we living in unstable times. How far can we intergrate before our indentity is in danger.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
When it gets to the point where imaams lead jamaat in football shirts you had lost your identity a long time ago.
I think lilsis hit the nail on the head, aslong as we dont break any Islamic laws our identity is our own to create and mould as we see it.
Back in BLACK
Why couldnt the Imam wear that if he wanted to as long as it fitted the Islamic dress code for a man?
Im not gonna get into the legalities of the issue. But am i correct in understanding that even if other clothes are permitted you still think that islamic clothing, islamic fashions are superior?
I view the issue as follows. Everyone wears clothes, (except for the group of deviants called naturalists), but apart from them everyone waears clothing to some exent or other. Now the issue is that we have a choice what clothing to wear, in my view everyone has to choose what clothes he is going to wear, so why not make the best choice and wear a white thobe.
Most men at some time or other go to get their haircut. We have a choice. Why not choose cutting the hair in the correct islamic way that Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam and Sahabah Karaam had their hair cut?
Everyone at some point or other eats rice. Choices are to eat with a fork/spoon or eat with fingers. If you have to make a choice then why not just go with the better method?
Im not talkng about halal haraam or fatwa. I am just saying that whenever these choices come up we should try and make the better choice. Subhanallah even cutting nails we have a choice where to start and where to finish, why not do it the way recommended by ulama?
Regarding imitating kuffar the way I look at it is my clothing, my haircut, my length of trousers, my perfume, my toothbrush, etc are all a reflection of who i am and whose trends and whose fashions i like. For me alhamdulillah I think the fashion of Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam and Sahabah Karam is nobler and more fitting with me.
Some people have said to me why do you wear those clothes in uk? when in rome do as the romans etc. I say when the British came to india they didnt leave their trousers, their ties, their funny suffocating clothes were kept by them in midday sun of india, because they were proud of their way of life, of their clothing. Same with me, if they could come to india and keep their dress and instead of being ridiculed were aped by the local population then also i dont see why i should leave my clothing. Infact the trousers and shirt are impractical in summer in india, the loose shalwar kameez is better. However over here even in the winter the thobe and shalwar suffices, well for me at any rate.
Alhamdulillah.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
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i didnt know the Prophet
wore shalwar kameez
who said he did?
I said that if british can stick with their clothes in india when shalwar kameez is by far more comfortable, then i dont see why i should have to change my clothing just because i leav in uk.
I didnt say shalwar kameez is sunnah clothing. However it is established that Nabi salallahu alayhi wa sallam wore kurta aswell as thobe so kameez can be considered sunnah. Further those Sahabah Karaam who conquered Afghanistan did wear shalwar kurta
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
let me get this right...are you trying to say if u wear jeans, shirt, suit, tie, top, cap, football shirt, colgate toothbrush, have a cool spikey haircut etc you are imitating the kuffar???? because the prophet
never did this? i hope i misunderstood what you were saying!
any clothes, not just jubba, robe is sunnah as long as it fulfills the criteria and conditions. so i can wear jeans, shirt, cap and it will be 100% islamic just like the robe!
salwaar kameez is a pakistani dress, no more islamic than loose western clothes! i would only wear salwaar kameez in paksitan.
alot of us take the 'imitating kuffar' well out of context...
Imitating the non-muslims is when you take upon their beliefs and doubt your own as for wearin clothes, eatin etc do not come in2 this context as long as you are abiding by islamic law as lilsis pointed out then all is fine
Editor yet again you start making assumptions. I didnt say anything about legalities.
I merely said we should make the BEST CHOICE, the one that is closer to sunnah. As for saying this is anti sunnah, this is imitation I have not mentioned one thing like that. Nor have I said Shalwara kameez is sunnah, i was making the point that those who say we should abandon our cultural dress because we in uk should remember that british came to india and didnt leave their dress so i dont see why i should HAVE to leave my cultural dress because im in britain.
Again I didnt say anything about imitation so dont get ur point.
Saying jeans, t shirt cap is sunnah is a heavy statement. I am free from it. Dont bother starting to give your evidence or trying to prove that jeans and shirt are sunnah, im not intersted. I just state that I am free from such statements.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
bro, what i meant to say is that any dress can be an [b]Islamic dress[/b] if it fulfills the conditions of the islamic dress code. i didnt mean to write 'sunnah' when i was referring to jeans, cap etc i meant it was islamic because it fulfills the conditions. so my mistake there.
also i was ONLY asking you to clarify your statement as i didnt really understand it...i wasn't making assumptions..you're beginning to get paranoid now.
dont worry i wont start to provide YOU with any evidences for any issue because there is no point...you're happy and comfortable as you are..i dont want to corrupt you now do I!
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disagree.
skirts and loose long tops can also fulfill islamic requirement
She never said they can't.
She said its hard to get them matching.
And that she prefers jilbab.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
MashaALLAH Muhtarama has given a good post. The link is also beneficial.
However I am not so sure about men wearing jeans trousers with no covering. Among the conditions for clothing is that it should be loose so the shape of the body cannot be seen. It is agreed that in Hanafi Madhab the satr for men is from the navel to below the knees. Whilst it is true that trousers and jeans can cover the aformentioned portions they do not conceal the shape so it is better to wear atleast a long kurta or kameez over the trousers. Particularly I mention that some men come to the mosque wearing only trousers and shirt and when in ruku or sajda at times the satr at the bottom of the back is exposed and if it is not exposed then atleast in different postures the shapes of the legs and rear end can be clearly outlined. This is wrong.
A people of a certain sect make tall claims of being ashiq e rasul yet they do not emphasise on their students the following of sunnah in every life aspect. Wheras people of another group do not go around boasting that we are ashiq e rasul and at their madaris a student has necessarily to dress as close to the sunnah as possible. By some ishq is celebrating bdays and distributing halwa at the graves, by another it means something totally different.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i can get them to match-
its not impossible
point is you CAN find loose skirts and tops etc that look good, match AND fulfill islamic requirements
which sect/group u referring to?
I've never claimed to be part of any sect/group
accusations accusations.
Can you stop with accusations please.
Oh and during Sajdah My forehead is glued to the floor. what about yours?
Is it to the rear of the guy infront of you?
:shock:
And that halva, you can take it and shove... I better stop here. You may call that shirk!
:evil:
[b]EDIT[/b]
That has come out a bit strong. Sorry for any offence cause. If any has been.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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He has a point.
When reading sunnat people are spaced out and at different stages of the prayer. Some people finish whilst others are still praying.
Indecent exposure sometimes takes place.
I am not making accusations, it was a general statement. Actually I dont do sajdah in peoples bodies, that is ridiculous. But by us people read sunnah and nafl salah in the mosque as well. Sometimes it happens that a person is just sitting in the mosque and the person infront goes into sajdah and it is seen that his clothing is not adequate for hijab. Sorry you find that unfathomable but its a true fact.
EDIT
my point stands correct by Irfghan and Muhtarama.
NB Muhtarama I am a man criticising the mens clothing.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Back on topic, but loose garments are good enough.
Nothing skin tight. However some muslims do wear skintight jeans...
If its loose garments (notice the 's') should be ok.
Even in a kurtah, a basic shape can be made out.
But not in a duvet.
Try walking around in one of them!
And not to mention the trigger happy coppers...
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
obsessed with clothing arent you? gee....
you mention that in almost every post.
you got nothing else to say apart from clothes and inter-mixing
Yes they are valid issues but they seem to be your most favourite topics!
There are more important issues than them you know....and I dont mean wearing a topee (hat)
Islam is the most misunderstood religion in the world, it is attacked and ridiculed on a daily basis, media bashing everyday, muslim youths in to drugs, booze, crime...sooo far away from the deen...and you're fussing over guys wearing jeans
what can I say?
I mean Judda ridiculed Islam on many times and you hardly said a word... but mention women going mosque, hijab, inter-mixing, imitating kuffar, taking pictures.....you write essays!
A student of Islam should know what the prioroties are...and spend more time on that. I am only saying all this becasue you have good knowledge of the deen and I would like to see you use it more effectively on this forum so we can all benefit..its not a personal attack bro.
wasalaam
'Ed, he has his forte.
Let him discuss and cuss what he knows.
He did have a valid point. however due to his almost accusation I did not take it seriously.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
he loves his 'almost' accusations
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