This is research for my essay, so pleeeeeeeeeeeease contribute your thoughts/opinions WHATEVER it is.
Do you think there's any aspect of sufism that there could be considered cultlike?
Any over emphasis on authority etc for example?
This IS a process, for anyone who answers (I hope a few of you will) I then want to run a checklist by you and ask if you think those things apply to sufism. Itll only be yes/no so it won't take you but a few minutes.
I repeat... PLEEEEEEEEEEASE help me. & please be honest! I need both sides.
Define cult?
I havent checked its definition, but from what I presume of a cult:
1. Extreme devotion to a spiritual leader: present.
2. Sometimes there is also a siege mentality where the group will consider itself besieged and may even become secretive. I consider this idea cultish, no idea if it fits with the definition though.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
NO, NO definitions yet. Don't wreck the system up!
Just from what you know of Sufism, do you think there's any way it could be considered cultlike? Or is it completely not and could never be cult-like?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
The only academic difference between a cult and a religion is the number of followers. Cults are usually smaller in number and generally hold beliefs that are considered outside the norm. But otherwise the word cult comes from a root latin work meaning 'worship'.
Whereas Sufisim is the perfection of the worship of Allah (swt). As to how they do that, i dont know. Im afraid i dont really know much about sufisim.
And I heard as it were, the noise of thunder. One of the four beasts saying come and see and I beheld, a pale horse. And his name that sat on him was Death... and Hell followed with him.
the word sufi means wool
so how on earth can a perfect religion name itself wool?
this alone proves it is not perfection but a flaw, religion needs a good name to start with if it needs a nickname the nickname should also be good, sufi means wool, so sufism means follwoers of the wool, what can be more useless of a group who follow wool?
whats so religious and perfect about being follwoes of wool? who worships wool
you look at ahlussunnah wal jamaah sunni muslim terms they mean something, and equals to perfection
sufi the definition is wool, sufism people fot he wool, again theris nothing good about this islamically, it doesnt show any form of decotion to allah or perfect worship it jsut shows people of the wool/useless
in regards to sufism only one story is needed to show what sufis really are:
1. Al-Tinnisi said: We were sitting with Malik with his companions around him. A man from the people of Nasibin said, 'We have some people who go by the name of Sufis. They eat a lot then they start [chanting] poems (qasa'id), after which they stand up and start dancing.' Malik said, 'Are they boys (sibyan)?' He said no. Malik said, 'Are they insane?' He said, 'No, they are old men (mashayikh) and other than that, and they are mature and sane (`uqala').' Malik said, 'I never heard that any of the people of Islam do this.' The man said to him, 'Indeed, they do! They eat, then they stand up and start dancing intensively (dawa'ib), and some of them slap their heads, and some their faces.' Malik started laughing then went into his house. His companions said to the man, 'You were, O man, ill luck (mash'um) for our friend [Malik]. We have been sitting with him thirty-odd years and never saw him laugh except today.'
This is narrated without chain by al-Qadi `Iyad. in Tartib al-Madarik (2:53-54).
2. `Abd al-Malik ibn Ziyad al-Nasibi said: 'We were with Malik when I mentioned to him Sufis in our city. I said to him that they wear fancy Yemenite clothes, and do such and such. He replied, 'Woe to you! Are they Muslims?' He then laughed until he lay on his back. Some of his companions said to me, 'What is this? We have not seen more trouble (fitna) caused to the Shaykh than you, for we never saw him laugh!?'
Narrated by al-Khallal in al-Hathth `ala al-Tijara wal-Sina`a wal-`Amal (ed. Abu Ghudda, §97) with a weak chain because of `Abd al-Malik ibn Zyad al-Nasibi who is 'condemned in his narrations and untrustworthy' (munkar al-hadith, ghayr thiqa) according to al-Azdi as per Ibn al-Jawzi in al-Du`af?' wal-Matrukin (1:149) while Ibn Hibban in his Thiqat (8:390) said he reports oddities from Malik.
I know there's people who are strongly against Sufism, but to me, it doesn't seem like a sect. I feel like it's a way of life, and i think that there's different stages. So i'd say the main focus of a sufi is to seek the awakening of the heart, love and gain closeness to Allah. So by desiring this, sufi's will devote themselves to dhikr, remembrance and worship and try to stay away from wealth and the pleasures of this world. (Shouldn't this be our aim anyway?!) But i think the controversial issue falls with those people who want to take this to a new level and feel the need to dance, and perform certain acts which aren't directly from the Quran and Sunnah like the whirling dervishes. But if you do try asking them, then they'll most likely tell you that, thats 'their' way of practising the deen, gaining reward and trying to be better Muslims and people in general. (Btw, this is just my opinion on Sufism. I think i need better knowledge on what a cult is, but me just thinks its a way of life).
islam is a way of life
sufism is a sect
Slogans are easy.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
...brought to you by McD's, where you can a Chicken McBreakfast for only 99p
Nah bruv, chicken cottage, proper halal, bargain bucket £6.99
lmao
And I heard as it were, the noise of thunder. One of the four beasts saying come and see and I beheld, a pale horse. And his name that sat on him was Death... and Hell followed with him.
spoken by the cowards from the farm of headless cows
By the skins of a thousand camels, what are you talking about? lol
Back in BLACK
im sure the other 2 would know although mr response wasnt correct so astaghfurullah
and sorry to them
LOL that was the only funny thing you've ever said
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Thanks for this Titanium, you're one of few who bothered trying to answer my question properly.
We watched a vid in lecture about some handshake one or something where the guy would just touch them and they'd go into that state of 'hal', it looked like they got electrocuted whenever he touched them, they started swaying about and falling and stuff. Was very strange!
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
this is true it is known to b done in bangladesh pakistan and india by the sufis
they take cannabis/marijuana claiming they do it to get closzer to allah some have gone to the level of having wine to have the same effect
sufis are jokes, its becuase of this action of this many nonmuslim write in their website islam permits such useless harram actions
and not forgetting they dance thinking their michael jackson
But is the drinking and drugs and MJ dance part of thier core belief?
If not, your arguments are invalid.
There are "many nonmuslim" writers who claim Islam is an agressive religion and use 9/11 and 7/7 to justify theit claims.
Just like that can't represent Islam, can this drug taking and "SOME" going to the extreme of taking wine etc be a fair view to judge Sufis by?
theirs a big difference between that and this
dance thing can be used because it is done by a large number of sufis jutified by their scholars, second point it has been done not today but since the early days of islam as proven by the imam malik story which shows the sufis have been doing their dance thing for a long time, this was always a sufi beleif, and a core beleif as seen in the imam malik scenario again it is stated the sufis dance and do other crazy thigns which shows this is a core belief of sufi sects
this is further proven by this
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMiM6OEoni0]
the drug thing ok i can accept it is done only by some sufis but dance one is not the case here
theirs a big difference between that and this
dance thing can be used because it is done by a large number of sufis jutified by their scholars, second point it has been done not today but since the early days of islam as proven by the imam malik story which shows the sufis have been doing their dance thing for a long time, this was always a sufi beleif, and a core beleif as seen in the imam malik scenario again it is stated the sufis dance and do other crazy thigns which shows this is a core belief of sufi sects
this is further proven by this
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMiM6OEoni0]
the drug thing ok i can accept it is done only by some sufis but dance one is not the case here
The video doesn't seem very genuine. I feel like the sounds don't correspond with what i could see.
There are ahadith in sahih bukhari of dancing taking place in the prophet (saw)'s mosque with Hadhrat Aisha siddeeqa watching while resting her head on the prophet (saw)'s arm/shoulder.
They were not banned.
There are other ahadith of other occasions too. Now the question is do we accept classical sources or do we accept what you modernists say at face value while ignoring the qur'an and sunnah?
@ Rawrrs - On the issue of sufism, a problem is we often get two different things mixed up and it can get more confusing.
PS I have never come across secret handshakes etc.
1. People following tariqahs and part of the sufi stuff.
2. People from ... well anywhere who are not salafi.
A lot of people like abu will put everyone into the group of "sufi", while others will only use the word sufi for those that actually practice tassawuf/zuhd.
@Ocean - God has more than one name.like "the 99 names of God". People do dhikr of them where every name has a meaning that you can contemplate over. I assume that is what you encountered? In that case, they are medicating over the name of God. Your phrasing is quite insulting IMO.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
[quote=You]
There are ahadith in sahih bukhari of dancing taking place in the prophet (saw)'s mosque with Hadhrat Aisha siddeeqa watching while resting her head on the prophet (saw)'s arm/shoulder.
They were not banned.
There are other ahadith of other occasions too. Now the question is do we accept classical sources or do we accept what you modernists say at face value while ignoring the qur'an and sunnah?
their is a hadith in bukhari is not a evidence post the hadith here along with the full reference
ahlul bidah do not know the meaning of quran and sunnah
their is a hadith in bukhari is not a evidence post the hadith here along with the full reference
ahlul bidah do not know the meaning of quran and sunnah
Al-Tinnisi said: We were sitting with Malik with his companions
around him. A man from the people of Nasibin said, 'We have some people
who go by the name of Sufis. They eat a lot then they start [chanting]
poems (qasa'id), after which they stand up and start dancing.' Malik
said, 'Are they boys (sibyan)?' He said no. Malik said, 'Are they
insane?' He said, 'No, they are old men (mashayikh) and other than that,
and they are mature and sane (`uqala').' Malik said, 'I never heard
that any of the people of Islam do this.' The man said to him, 'Indeed,
they do! They eat, then they stand up and start dancing intensively
(dawa'ib), and some of them slap their heads, and some their faces.'
Malik started laughing then went into his house. His companions said to
the man, 'You were, O man, ill luck (mash'um) for our friend [Malik]. We
have been sitting with him thirty-odd years and never saw him laugh
except today.'
This is narrated without chain (claimed by sufis) by al-Qadi `Iyad. in Tartib al-Madarik (2:53-54).
funny thing as this story is narrated in the book of imam malik written by himself called malik muwatta
and that book is sahih and this narration cant be false as it doesn tneed previous chain becuase imam malik wrote it himself regarding himself but his students are a further evidence of this happening
Sufis are just groups of simple mystics who each
have a Mentor called Shiekh (male), or Shiekha (female).
He, or She, guides and teach the novices in higher arts.
They do not get angry if the inititates misses classes or messes things up.
The authority of the Shiekh, or Shiekha, is not too great as it is in the Cults around the world.
I had a woman. Her Highness was wonderful.
_
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
So there are Shia suffis too?
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
yes and sufi and shias have a good unity with one another afterall they have similar beliefs minus the view on ali ra and his family case
sufi believe muhammad saw has been created from light
shia believe ali ra has been created from light
both celebrate mawlid shia do it for ali ra sufi for muhammad saw
sufi do crazy dancing shia do crazy beating
and their are other similrties
A hadith referenced in there I think is this, from a translation of Sahih Bukhari:
You see, if you do read the classical stuff, you will realise that there are specific forms of dance which are not allowed and these have been discussed in detail in the classical books, but then if you decide to ignore 1200 years of Muslim history and decide that Islam only follows what was found in the last 200 years, the modernism will get you lost.
SInce this topic is about an academic question and now about this topic in details, maybe we should take the discussion to an existing topic which already discusses the ahadith and scholarly opinion - here.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
and they quote the qur'an for it. Like it or not there has been a historical discussion on this and while there has been some debate (and before you add some misguidance here - both sides believe the prophet
to be human.), it has not been on the level that the new modernists take it stating that it simply cannot be, not realising that they are limiting the power of God by stating that God cannot create the prophet 
how they so wish.
and they quote God giving salaam to a prophet on the day of his birth and on the day of his death and on the day of his ressurection as proof that the day of birth of a prophet is a blessed occasion and that we should all be grateful.
Like breathing air?
Someone was mentioning the other day about different groups and the martyrdom of Imam Hussain and it was a stark position - the shia believe that it was an unmitigated disaster. The classical sunnis for most of their history have believed that it was something where through the martyrdom Islam was revived. and then we have people that I suppose like you who believe that Hadhrat Imam hussain were in the wrong. Something that historically hasnt really existed. Is that your position? If not, do you reject your teachers who have held that position?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
your assumption has led to your own disaster
for if you had any brains you wouldve listened to the video of that thrad i made called hussain ibn ali ra in this forum and then wouldve seen what my view of hussain ra is instead of making assumptions which are wrong
second regarding muhammad saw being light their is no evidence from anywhere of such useless claims
angels are light humans are clay and jinns are fire i beleive its very easy to understand
The Messenger of Allaah
(peace and blessings of Allaah
be upon him) has been described as being light from the light of Allaah. If what is meant
by this is that he himself is from the light of Allaah, then this goes against the
Qur’aan, which refers to his being human. If what is meant is that he is light in the
sense that he brought the Revelation by which whoever Allah wills of His creation is
guided, then this is correct. The committee has issued a fatwa concerning this matter, as
follows:
“The Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has
light which is the light of the message and guidance from Allaah, through which Allaah
guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. No doubt the light of the message and of guidance
comes from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
‘It is not given to any human being that Allaah should speak to
him unless (it be)by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to
reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.
And thus We have sent to you (O Muhammad) Roohan (an Inspiration, and a
Mercy) of Our Command. You knew not what is the Book, nor what is Faith? But We have made
it (this Qur’aan) a light wherewith We guide whosoever of Our slaves We will. And
verily, you (O Muhammad) are indeed guiding (mankind) to the Straight Path (i.e.,
Allaah’s religion of Islamic monotheism), --
The path of Allaah, to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and all
that is in the earth. Verily, all the matters at the end go to Allaah (for
decision).”[al-Shura 42:51-53]
This light is not derived from the Seal of the Awliya’ as some
heretics claim. The body of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was
blood and flesh and bone, and so on. He was created from a father and a mother, and had no
existence before he was born. The reports which say that the first thing created by Allaah
was the light of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or that Allaah
grasped a handful of the light from His Face and that this handful was Muhammad
(peace
and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then He looked at it and it formed drops, and from
each of these drops He created a Prophet, or He created all of creation from the light of
the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – all of these reports and
the like are not saheeh (authentic), and nothing like this has been narrated from the Prophet
(peace
and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”
From the fatwa quoted above, it is clear that this is a false belief.
As for the report which says “I am ‘Arab without (the
letter) ‘ayn, i.e., Rabb, and I am Ahmad without (the letter) meem,
i.e., Ahad” – the attributes of Lordship (ruboobiyah, from Rabb
meaning Lord) and Absolute Unity (Ahad meaning One) are attributes that belong
uniquely to Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted. It is not permissible for any one of
His creation to be described as “the Lord (Rabb)” or as being One (Ahad)
in absolute terms. These are attributes that belong exclusively to Allaah, and are not
used to describe the Messengers or any other human beings. May Allaah bless our Prophet
Muhammad and his family and companions.
Al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah li’l-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah
wa’l-Ifta’ (Standing Committee for Academic Research and the Issuing of Fatwas).
Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/310.
Question:
Is it said that Allaah created the heavens and earth for the purpose of
creating the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? What is the meaning of
the words, “Were it not for you, the universe [lit. heavenly bodies] would not have
been created”? Is there any basis for this hadeeth (prophetic narration)? Is it saheeh (authentic) or not? Please give
us the facts.
Answer:
The heavens and earth were not created for the sake of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They were created for the reason mentioned by
Allaah in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“It is Allaah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth
the like thereof (i.e., seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth),
that you may know that Allaah has power over all things, and that Allaah surrounds
(comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.” [al-Talaaq 65:12]
As for the hadeeth mentioned, it is falsely attributed to the
Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and has no grounds for authenticity.
May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions.
Praise be to Allaah alone, and peace and blessings be upon
His Messenger and his family and companions.
Celebrating the birthday of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is an innovation (bid’ah)
which goes against the guidance of the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and of the Rightly Guided Khaleefahs
(al-khulafaa’ al-raashidoon) and the Sahaabah, may Allaah be
pleased with them. It is proven that the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does anything
that is not part of this matter of ours (i.e., Islam), will have it rejected.”
(For more details, please see Question # 249).
Believing that the Prophet (peace
and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is not like the rest of humanity, and
that he is light from the Light of Allaah Himself is not a correct belief,
because it contradicts the Qur’aan. Allaah has stated that the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
is human, and has explained what makes the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) different from the rest of mankind.
He said (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): ‘I am only a man like you. It
has been inspired to me that your God is One God (Allaah). So whoever hopes
for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none
as a partner in the worship of his Lord.” [al-Kahf 18:110]
Mankind, human beings, are created, as Allaah says (interpretation
of the meaning):
“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from
a single person (Adam), and from him He created his wife (Hawwa/Eve), and
from them both He created many men and women…” [al-Nisaa’ 4:1]
“O mankind, if you are in doubt about the Resurrection,
then verily! We have created you from dust, then from a nutfah (mixed drops
of male and female sexual discharge)…” [al-Hajj 22:5]
“O Prophet! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a
bearer of glad tidings, and a warner, - and as one who invites to Allaah by
His leave, and as a lamp spreading light.” [al-Ahzaab 33:45-46]
In contrast, Allaah is the First, and He has no beginning, as
He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing
is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him), and the Most Near (nothing
is nearer than Him). And He is the All-Knower of every thing.” [al-Hadeed
57:3]
Allaah called His Prophet “light” and a “lamp
spreading light” because of the guidance and light with which Allaah
sent him, with which Allaah guides all those who answer his call
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of
the meaning):
“… Indeed, there has come to you a light (Prophet
Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon
him)) and a plain Book (this Qur’aan).” [al-Maa’idah 5:15]
Saying that he is present and watching in every place, that
he is himself present at every gathering to celebrate his birthday, and
that he hears what the people present are saying, is all false. There is
no basis for this in either the Qur’aan or the Sunnah.
Calling on him and seeking his help and support is a form
of major shirk which is not permitted, whether one is calling on the Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
or on any other created being, because Allaah says (interpretation of the
meaning):
“… so invoke not anyone along with Allaah.”
[al-Junn 72:18]
“And whoever invokes (or worships) besides Allaah, any
other god of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord.
Surely! Al-kaafiroon (the disbelievers) will not be successful.” [al-Mu’minoon
23:117]
(Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 3/4)
The Muslim should follow, not innovate. He should believe in
Allaah alone, call on Him alone and seek His help alone. He should not call
on or seek the help of anyone else. The consequences of shirk are devastating,
as it will wipe out all a person’s good deeds and lead to his doom in Hell.
Bid’ah is a serious matter, which will cause a person’s deeds to be
thrown back at him, not accepted. The Muslim should love, respect, honour and
obey the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah
be upon him), and give his words precedence over the words of any other human
being, but it is not permitted to exaggerate about him, or to raise his status
above that which has been bestowed upon him by Allaah, or to call on him instead
of Allaah, because this is a violation of the rights of Allaah, and involves
directing acts of worship to someone other than Allaah, when they should only
be directed towards Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted. We ask Allaah to
help us to do that which will please Him and to avoid that which will earn His
wrath, and to help us to love Him and His Prophet
(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.
And Allaah knows best.
you exposed yourself from the second you defended both shia and sufi showing your alliance with one anotherafter all you are both one of the corrupted 73 sects the ahlul bidah and ahlul shia
both brainless and blind deaf and dumb
“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from
a single person (Adam), and from him He created his wife (Hawwa/Eve), and
from them both He created many men and women…” [al-Nisaa’ 4:1]
second you claim the angels said salaam to muhammad saw when he was born, you sound like a christian who claim jesus is son of god becuase he has no father if thats the case adam should be mroe powerfull then him as he has neither
same here you claim muhamamd saw got salaam from angels then aadam as got bowedd down by the angels his creation miracle and angels bowing down miracle is mroe powerfull then getting salaam form the angels so theirfore the case of aadam as is more powerfull here so according to your logic aadam as should be mroe celebrated then muhamamd saw here
now the angels bowed down to aadam as does that mean you can bow down to aadam as and the prophets? no because this was a action which allah only gave to the angels
same with muhammad saw if the angels did say salaam to him at his birth this was a action only for them not us exactly like the scenario of aadam as, this action was only for the angels not us
i ask one very simple question just a simple question
show me a single hadith in which the sahaba ra and muhammad saw celebratng mawlid or the first 3 generation and 4 imams who are part of that celebrating mawlid
and dont give me muhamamd saw fasting on mondays for that he did not do on the day of mawlid, it was a regular monday thing and he had a second reason for doing that aswell
Ignoring the qur'an eh?
(Surah Maidah 5:15)
The arabic word used is "noor". No evidence apart from the words of the qur'an. I will take the qur'an on this.
I am not one to limit the power of God, for that is what your position is. I believe that God can create humans however He (swt) so wishes and angels however He (swt) so wishes.
Trying to limit the power of God is shirk.
Remind me, when the sahabah tried to copy the prophet
with his multi-day fasts, what did the prophet 
tell them? Or will you ignore ahadith here again because it doesnt fit into your modernist revisions?
It is funny how classical Islam is more in tune with modern day descoveries that modernist revisions try to push as the truth.
1. If you read carefully, I only defended Islamic beliefs. any other stuff you added, I ignored and did not discuss apart from when exposing.
2. If shia have a belief it does not mean its wrong. They consider the prophet
as the final prophet 
- are we to reject such things because they believe the same? No! This is a trap the modernists fall into when they reject classical Islamic opinion simply because eg the kuffaar realise that it is common sense and adopt it. Our guidebook is not to oppose what others do for the sake of it, but to follow Islam through its primary sources and if others do the same, then so be it, that is not a reason to reject it.
erm... Are you telling me that we should not follow the qur'an? The qur'an is a guide for us and if there are bits that are mansukh, there is something that makes them mansukh (and by that I mean real sources, other verses and not your posts on a forum). We cannot just follow what you say. Quote qur'an and sunnah when suggesting that the qur'an should not be followed.
So far:
1. You limit the power of God because it doesnt suit you.
2. You reject the qur'an because it doesnt suit you.
Bravo.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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