Tell me where Islam allows that.

Provide me any Islamic source that allows it.

This is cultural backwardness and not Islam (where the testimony of the rape victim alone cna be enough to convict the rapist).

Why have you put 'Islamic law' in the title. It is not Islamic law, it is Afghnanistan's law.

I should add that my first reaction to this news was of anger and disgust

lollywood wrote:

Wait a women needs 4 Shahadati [witnesses] to prove her rape

No she doesnt.

4 witnesses are required to prove an extra marital affair.

That does not apply to rape and in early Muslim history people were at times punished on the simple word of the woman.

coz females more emotional blah blah. but i dont know if it had to be male.

yes. the conditions are harsh so that the punishment is not easily applied and the couple can repent and the sin stays hidden.

the four witnesses have to witness the actual act so its highly unlikely. and if the couple want to turnthemselves in the judge is supose to turn away 3 times. just like the prophet (pbuh) did. and if the person comes back THEN we stone them.

and i read somewhere that if the person decides to run away during the stoning then we let them.

the stoning is a way of repenting for this sin in this life rather than in the hereafter. and inshaaAllah after being stoned the person is forgiven for that sin.

Lilly wrote:

the four witnesses have to witness the actual act so its highly unlikely. and if the couple want to turnthemselves in the judge is supose to turn away 3 times. just like the prophet (pbuh) did. and if the person comes back THEN we stone them.

and i read somewhere that if the person decides to run away during the stoning then we let them.

huhh? why?

because stoning is a way for them to get forgiven and if their faith aint high enough for them to take it - aka they run - then who are we to force someone to repent?

lollywood wrote:

Lilly wrote:

coz females more emotional blah blah. but i dont know if it had to be male.
yes. the conditions are harsh so that the punishment is not easily applied and the couple can repent and the sin stays hidden.

So it's commit the sin on purpose just because you fill like it and then repent?

Lilly wrote:

the four witnesses have to witness the actual act so its highly unlikely. and if the couple want to turnthemselves in the judge is supose to turn away 3 times. just like the prophet (pbuh) did. and if the person comes back THEN we stone them.

That's the whole point this is a floored system that could never work in the favour of women
Why would you commit the same sin 3 times?

Lilly wrote:

and i read somewhere that if the person decides to run away during the stoning then we let them.

Oh I get it so you commit the crime and then you run away

Lilly wrote:

the stoning is a way of repenting for this sin in this life rather than in the hereafter. and inshaaAllah after being stoned the person is forgiven for that sin.

After being stoned the person is forgiven for that sin, Are you joking man the person is most likely dead[/quote]

wouaw..talk about every single expressions about someone someone understanding something wrong (Sorry its late..but daaayyyymm..i couldnt even begin to chose one of them expressions for the above!)

anyway

if you wanted to have sex you'll just do it without repenting. the repenting bit is if you fear Allah and are truly sorry. conditions of repentance is sincerity. that means MEANING being sorry.

It's FLAWED system. and what are you talking about not working for women? its not about commiting the sin three times. the hadith goes. she commited zina and got pregnant. she came to prophet (pbuh) all repentful and wanted the punishment to be applied. he (pbuh) sent her away until she gave birth. then she came back and he sent her away to breastfeed the baby for 2 years. then she came back again. (not because she felt like it but because she was truly sorry and wanted forgiveness) so now the prophet (pbuh) had no excuse to send her away so he had to get her stoned. and someone made a remark about her while they were stoning her and he silenced them. i'll try and find the hadith.

dead but inshaaAllah forgiven for that sin.

the run away bit is coz your faith isnt high enough. Im not an expert on this okay! so do some research or something!

Lilly wrote:

because stoning is a way for them to get forgiven and if their faith aint high enough for them to take it - aka they run - then who are we to force someone to repent?

Stoning was not the general case and it was something that was eliminated more or less too.

In the hadith on stoning you mentioned before, not only is it clear that the prophet did not want the person to confess, but when he was told that the person had changed his mind, the prophet said his punishment should not have been carried out.

(and AFAIK there is no ahadith where a MUSLIM was punished for adultery in such a way - the Jews and teh christians had their own law they were held to and cases where the eprson may have been Muslim are also suspected by some to be cases of rape and not adultery).

the witness rulings where more women are required than men is a specific requirement for ONLY financial transactions (and maybe even limited to communities where women are not involved in business) and not a general ruling to be applies elsewhere.

Zina

Zina is illegal sex between unmarried partners. If the perpetrators are married while they do this, they are to be stoned to death. If they are single, they are to be flogged 100 times.

Though quite severe, and perhaps the most thorny issue in our times, it has to be seen in its context. The crime is established under two circumstances: 1. Voluntary confession. 2. When four trustworthy men testify that they have witnessed the act.

Keeping the first one aside for a later discussion[i], what interests us now is the testimony of four witnesses. The condition, as required for everything else, is that the witnesses be sane, adult and trustworthy. All four should have actually witnessed the penetration clearly – the male organ into the female one. Each witness’s account of the incident – taken separately – should corroborate with the other. Furthermore there should be no room for any doubt regarding this. Such a case at best may occur when it is done in an unashamed manner, perhaps somewhat publicly.

The punishment is strict, but so are the conditions required to establish it. Nothing can explain this better than the fact that only 14 cases of stoning to death were carried out in over 1400 years of Islamic history.

[i] Muslims, and there have been instances in the past and present, may choose to voluntarily redeem their sin by facing the punishment in this world rather than in the hereafter. Though this not necessary, as Muslims are encouraged to hide their sins and turn in repentance directly and privately to Allah, the Almighty God who is Most Merciful and Oft-Forgiving, it nevertheless is still an option and a way of repentance and purifying oneself of the sin. Such a person is required to voluntarily come and confess to the judge at four different times. And each time, the judge will turn away his face with disgust and discourage the confession. After four confessions, the Hadd punishment of Zina is carried out. If the person runs away while the punishment is being carried out, he is not chased as it is considered a sign that he has retracted his confession.

Ref: Abdullah Mohammed, Lashing, stoning, mutilating; Abdulrahman Al-Sheha, Misconceptions on Human Rights in Islam

i dont know if the info in the note is trustworthy. which i should check. but gotta be up at dawn tomorrow so i'm off.

read full article - capital punishment in Islam - here

no point? this is a matter of spending the rest of your life in hell or not.

and if he claims its adultery when it was rape then he's going to die too. and the witnesses are to witness that it WAS adultery. not that is wasnt....

lollywood wrote:

Lilly wrote:

no point? this is a matter of spending the rest of your life in hell or not.

It'll be ok because I'll have your company

Lilly wrote:

and if he claims its adultery when it was rape then he's going to die too. and the witnesses are to witness that it WAS adultery. not that is wasnt....

Don't you think that it's too late by then?[/quote]

to both: WHAT?

lollywood im not pronouncing or assumin anything aboutyour faith but are your muslim simple question no intention to offend. why do ask?, because i am totallly offended and disgusted by ur comments if you are, more so than the article. yes islam is a great religion the greatest religion on this earth and no other comes above it. the fact is this is a cultural issue so take your gripe to the afghan men who create these absurd laws!

also u have mentioned many insanely. correct statements in this thread. u are mixjng adultery laws with rape. u are saying Allahs laws are unfair and favoured towards men. the most erronous thing u said was why did the propht saw send the woman who got pregnant from adulterous affair breastfeed, according to ur laws the bab should have been killed because it was out of wedlock? who are you to decide? the baby is innocent in all of this only under rape and other dire circumstances can a bab be aborted. just coz the baby is out of wedlock it doesnt make that baby tainted. also our prophet saw was correct he only follows allahs laws, the child has a right to the breastmilk.

funny thing i heard this headline on bbc radio and they said it was according to pashtun laws, yet here u are doing a trash tabloid spin on it islamic law? loool

ok if u say u are muslim i believe u. and i agree christians nor anyone should be badly treated in islamic countries, but this isnt islamic laws unfortunately its corruption by man. but in ur zeal to defend the rights of others don't commit sin urself. dont attribute things to islam snd Allah which are simply are not true, the media do this all the time and it angers us. we dont expect muslims to cast stones in the same direction

its sinful because our relationships should be conducted within a marriage not outside. but any child born out of wedlock is not a sinner, the people who had the relationship out of wedlock are the sinners, the child is innocent.

society frowns upon it due to cultural reasons, and if u notice its more frowned upon in non western cultures now ie asian cultures

lollywood wrote:

But the child it's self was born out of a sinful act, in other words it’s a living sin according to Asian cultures so how could it be innocent in that sense?

Because the parents sins don't go to the child. It is born free of sin.