I would have thought they had the chance to be way way way more sincere as they can have a greater appreciation of what they have gained as opposed to born Muslims who may be Muslims just by name.

There's more than one reason why people convert. I guess some might be more likely to revert than others.

what about we start by calling them revert? I like that term better as it just shows they've come back to Islam.

Usually revert are even more religious then born muslims, as they understand and love Islam more than born muslim who grew up with it and take it for granted.

im the complete opposite of your friend. My first choice would be a revert over a born muslim.

about the tempting thing. every bad thing has some good/enjoyment in it. but the bad outweighs the good. Reverts have experienced that first hand and so wont be tempted back. Whereas born muslim who've never done it want to try it (as everyone around them is doing it) so in my opinion, they would be the one that are more tempted.

Salaam
I disagree with the statement as its making a generalisation about ALL converts/reverts yes there is cases where unfortunately they do go back to their old ways but the same could be said for reborn muslims, i think we should look at statements such as this turn it around and think why do some converts/reverts go back to their old ways or something along those lines its far more productive.

Funzo wrote:

Salaam
I disagree with the statement as its making a generalisation about ALL converts/reverts yes there is cases where unfortunately they do go back to their old ways but the same could be said for reborn muslims, i think we should look at statements such as this turn it around and think why do some converts/reverts go back to their old ways or something along those lines its far more productive.

There probably is some truth in the statement - given the social pressure and the social networks that people are born into, Muslims surrounded by Muslim relatives/friends are less likely to apostasise (more difficult to do so with the social pressure) than someone whose networks are non-Muslims (the pressure going the other way). However One could argue the embarressment of having made a wrong decision could also be a pressure to encourage them to remain Muslim...

On the plus side, those who do become Muslims usually have researched Islam quite well and alrady had to fight their way against such pressures to become Muslims and often become stronger Muslims than "native" Muslims.

Interesting discussion nonetheless...

Lilly wrote:

what about we start by calling them revert? I like that term better as it just shows they've come back to Islam.

Anonymous1 wrote:

Funzo wrote:

Salaam
I disagree with the statement as its making a generalisation about ALL converts/reverts yes there is cases where unfortunately they do go back to their old ways but the same could be said for reborn muslims, i think we should look at statements such as this turn it around and think why do some converts/reverts go back to their old ways or something along those lines its far more productive.

There probably is some truth in the statement

Anonymous1 wrote:

On the plus side, those who do become Muslims usually have researched Islam quite well and alrady had to fight their way against such pressures to become Muslims and often become stronger Muslims than "native" Muslims.

this is where I stand.

Yes, people may fail and falter, but that is not what our defauilt view should be IMO.

MuslimBro wrote:

Lilly wrote:

what about we start by calling them revert? I like that term better as it just shows they've come back to Islam.

Unless they were born in a state of fitrah......

Is that http://www.therevival.co.uk/blogs/you/revert-vs-convert-big-fight what you meant? Then yeah, you're right.

Convert it is then.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Anonymous1 wrote:

Interesting discussion nonetheless...

what do u find interesting about it?

It's a new and growing phenomenon on which I've not seen much research or identified trends... Thus always interesting to see different views on a subject until it becomes "colonised" by researchers and clear positions, themes and pardigms become established...

I actually know loads of converts.. tbh, they treat religion more better than others in terms of following the Sunnah..ext. There is less chance of them returning back to their old ways, it also depends on how they were introduced to Islam for example and their love for it..

Just a lil' something I wanted to add

Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said whoever changes their Islamic religion should be killed
Bukhari hadees Volume 9 Book 84 Number 57

But it’s ok for others to leave their religions and convert to Islam

What is the context of the hadith and of the original statement quoted in the hadith?

You wrote:

What is the context of the hadith and of the original statement quoted in the hadith?

Examples of Sunni Hadiths that sanction the death penalty for apostasy include passages in the Sahih al-Bukhari include Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57, Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58 and Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271.

The two most popular Hadiths usually cited by orthodox Islamic clerics to support the death penalty for
apostates are:

"Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17 "Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him" Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57

That is not context.

You wrote:

That is not context.

It is the Hadees though

In the qur'an it says "Do not even approach prayer".

Do you think we can follow that, or do we see that the context is mentioned afterwards with "when you are drunk", the context being do not pray when your mind is intoxicated as you dont know what you will be saying.

(further context is that this verse was when alcohol was not made haraam - alcohol was made haraam later on.)

When quoting ahadith, you need to show wether it is a singular hadith, one of many, its context and know when and how it applies.

Its not as complicated as some make out, but it does require further investigation.

On topic - the actual hadith in Sahih Bukhari actually doesnt provide too much context of those words (as it is in a larger hadth which is talking about another incident where this hadith segment was quoted) and you will need to read the commentaries etc to see what its context is.

You wrote:

In the qur'an it says "Do not even approach prayer".

Do you think we can follow that, or do we see that the context is mentioned afterwards with "when you are drunk", the context being do not pray when your mind is intoxicated as you dont know what you will be saying.

(further context is that this verse was when alcohol was not made haraam - alcohol was made haraam later on.)

Why was alcohol not made haram in the first place?

You wrote:

When quoting ahadith, you need to show wether whether it is a singular hadith, one of many, its context and know when and how it applies.

I can't find it at the mo

You wrote:

Its not as complicated as some make out, but it does require further investigation.

On topic - the actual hadith in Sahih Bukhari actually doesnt provide too much context of those words (as it is in a larger hadth which is talking about another incident where this hadith segment was quoted) and you will need to read the commentaries etc to see what its context is.

The point here is that it says anyone who leaves Islam should be killed but it's ok for people of other religions to convert, I find that a bit unfair what if the other religions said the same?

That is why I told you to find the context.

the context of ahadith which mention such stuff is war. on the battlefield, changing sides is treason.

It doesnt apply elsewhere.

You wrote:

That is why I told you to find the context.

the context of ahadith which mention such stuff is war. on the battlefield, changing sides is treason.

It doesnt apply elsewhere.

i never heard that before. not to undermine admin's word which are totally true. Context is out the UTMOST importance!

and alcohol wasnt made haraam at the beginning because Allah is all wise and knows how his creatures work and knew that no one would have been able to keep up with this rule. for the time he was in macca all the revelations were about believing in Allah alone and worshipping him Allah aka Tawheed. the rules and regulations came later, in madinah.

see, if you went out there and seeked proper knowledge you would know. instead of sitting in front of revvy all day.

lollywood wrote:

The point here is that it says anyone who leaves Islam should be killed but it's ok for people of other religions to convert, I find that a bit unfair what if the other religions said the same?

ironic in christianity they should not only be killed but stoned to death. so if u were in a christian state thats what would happen, its no exclusive to islam, think most prople who care to do a bit of research wouldn't mske such tblpid commntd. so which paper do u wok for, news of the world? i men u were good at pretending to be someone ur not.

Hajjar wrote:

Ironically in christianity they should not only be killed but stoned to death. so if u were in a christian state thats what would happen,

Then that is just as wrong

Hajjar wrote:

its no exclusive to islam, think most prople who care to do a bit of research wouldn't make such stupid comments so which paper do u wok for, news of the world? i mean u were good at pretending to be someone ur not.

yeah news of the world
Mazhar Mehmood also known as the fake Sheikh lol