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Ohh i get it now. Lol. Or maybe not.
Alternative to what? :s
And yes there is no difference between salafis and sunnis.
Nvm
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Thanks.
i dont think i have. maybe i should have said "but then some people would rather be CALLEd hanafis etc..." but i meant that. they'd rather call themselves Hanafis, rather than Salafis. i just decided to just call myself Salafi. (and this doesnt mean i dont listen to what Imaam Abu Hanifa says or take from his teachings)
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
thats what i got from reading your various posts on salafis. they seem to be extremist, jihadist etc.. but i wanted a clearer picture than my assumptions. so what do YOU mean by Salafis?
btw..i dont know much so at some point i will stop replying.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
You need to read my posts better then and not attribute thoughts to me that aren't mine.
I'm guessing that dig is with regards to the Quran translation blog, so if you refer to it, Lamp or The Lamp or whatever his name is, said what I meant more clearly.
And I didnt say anything negative related to Salafism in this topic that I'm aware of, so again, stop jumping to conclusions about me just because I question things.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
please clarify this.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
She I think meant that saying "we are all salafis" does not cut it as because there are specific people/group that are also known as that, so there must be some distinguishing feature.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
and i am asking. who are those people. and why are they different.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
PEOPLE THAT CALL THEMSELVES SALAFI(/Wahabi) AND NOT SUNNI
AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY THEY'RE DIFFERENT.
It's very simple.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Cant really say why - just tht people came to slightly different conclusions on the same matters on some issues over time.
Something that happens.
All groups will argue that they are following the qur'an and sunnah in the best way and that the others aren't.
Since everyone has the same ideals and aims, you cannot show the differences between groups based on idealsor aims - they are the same. what you can show is differing actions or viewpoints, things that they may disagree on.
Salafis are generally considered to originate from Saudi, and historically allied themselves with the saud family, and spread from there.
The salafi view is seen as less strict and at times even opposing of following traditions - they say go back to the source. But opponents will say that they are sticking to the source by following the traditions as they were created in following the source.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I see.
Who rules Saudi Arabia?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
The Saud family, who are given legitimacy by the salafi scholars, and the salafi scholars who are given legitimacy by the Saud family.
There are big differences between the groups and how they act on sources - I am not pretending to say that there aren't, but that is not from ideals, but from actions and applications of those ideals.
In general, the salafi scholars will be less tolerant of things that are considered to be from the sufis, like sticking to one school of thought and letting the scholars from there figure everything out (but then their followers would do the same by following them.... so its only an issue of if scholars should stick to the schools or not) and reject some practices like celebrating the prophet's birthday (on religious grounds that it is a "new addition") and have a different understanding of bid'ah.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Sub groups, not sects.
The sects would be sunni, shia and maybe ibaadi (common in Oman).
beyond that they are within the branch of one of them, with the salafis generally considered to be from within the sunni strand (though some will argue that they are outside there and make their own new strand).
Some have argued that this is a difference due to location how people from different places are - that bedouins and nomads always had such a line while people from cities and places of population always had softer edges etc.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I have never of the term ibaadi :S What's different about them?
Also someone told me that there is a difference in fiqh, aqidah and tasawwuf (basically everything) between salafis and sunnis who follow a particular madhab.
short history/general points on Wahhabism
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
who calls themselves Sunni? dont people call themselves Hanafi/shafi'i/blah blah blah
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
As if you seriously just asked that.
Lots of people call themselves Sunni. I believe more than half of the entire Muslim population call themselves Sunni and then if nec specify something further after.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
now i get it.
but i always thought the "i'm a sunni" was only said to just reaffirmed "im not a shia" coz back at school. i'd be asked "are you sunni or shia" so i thought it was like..flip of the coin...
has the word Sunni being used in Islamic history? by scholars or even the companions? does it stem from Sunnah?
and dude. yes i was seriously asking this. sorry for not knowing.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
yes, the greater body of Muslims has been known to be sunni, or from the ahlussunnah wal jama'ah = people who follow tradition (the main "tradition" being the sunnah of the prophet
but unwritten in there is also the sunnah of the generations following the prophet (saw), the idea being that each generation would pass on to the next what the previous taught them... something stronger than mere books - actions.)
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I was asking because I think it's crazy that it could have escaped your attention given how much you know, something so basic as the majority label.
Most non-Muslims are aware of at the very least the SUNNI-shia divide. Its like saying no-one calls themselves Shi'a, just followers of the Jafari school of thought.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Just to add, most people wont know what hanafi, shafi'i' ,malike, or hanali etc are unless confronted by someone from a different madhab, or asked and then they are made to investigate.
As kids people are taught to pray, read the qur'an etc, but they are not taught from which madhab/style of fiqh it is from unless it is necessary.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
yep, have heard of the "ahlussunah wal jama'ah" name.
and Rawr: please please please, i do NOT know that much..not AT all.. yeah.. just saying..i dont know stuff... at all... whatever you read round the site is most probably exactly what i know, no more. or maybe its from a google search or something. most of the topics round here just throw me off and i gotta go do my research on stuff... and most of the time i'm asking questions... i dont know what the FRICK got into me to start talking, but not to worry, i have been reminded
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Seemed to know then.
And I thought the terms Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah and Sunni were one and the same and used interchangeably.
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
If that was the case then why do we get some people (won't mention any names) who encourage lay people to pick up Bukhari and Muslim and start following it?
They must come under the 'open-minded salafi' category then.
But that is the point, one CAN follow a mujtahid blindly as Allah says in the Quran "Ask the people of knowledge if you don't know" (Surah al-Nahl, v.43). And if one is not a mujtahid, it is necessary upon them to follow someone who is. Re your second point, there many issues which have valid differences of opinions and one has to accept the various opinions but with certain things, there is no other opinion so one CAN accuse others of being wrong. Just to give one example and I'll mention the name here so people can be aware of him. The Saudi scholar who passed away about 10 years ago, Muhammad ibn al Uthaymeen held the opinion that Allah has two eyes. He has been refuted and criticized for it and rightly so. Even in fiqhi matters, there were some people who held very deviant opinions and they were also criticised.
I don't see any contradiction.
me neither, you took it out of context, i cant remember what i wrote or who "they" is.
MB said:
what if it was the other way round? the one who do (condemn) were "close-minded salafis"?
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
I've come across the point that the difference between the Salafis and Sunnis is in their theology.
Hanafis = Maturidi
Shafi'i & Maliki = Ashari
Hanbalis = Salafi
Apparently there isn't actually much of a difference between Maturidi and Ashari.
Also 'normal' people don't really know which theological stance they take. Guess it would just be learnt, and a name isn't really given to it.
I'm listening to this atm and I also listened to this before. (Can't remember how relevant it is though :oops: )
I don't know much else about this, but I want to learn moreee
I like the names Maturidi and Ashari, they sound cool
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
the edit button needs to re-appear! :/
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EszTK1rbcH8&feature=related
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
that's interesting cos it similar to some philosphy of language we're doing about learning languages, you can follow something without necessarily understanding it..
In Islam I think there is a fine balance between what we will never be able to understand and what is very important that we can understand.
How near is modern humanity to reaching the absolute limits of what a human can ever understand?
Don't just do something! Stand there.
very far and each individual human will always only have a small piece of that and what good is it if *somebody else* knows the answer but you dont?
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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