IMO we should all aim to be extremists when it comes to Islam and being a muslim. Extreme meaning we should all be extremely kind, extremely helpful, extremely just etc.

So we should aim to be the best muslims we can, taking everything the Qur'an and Hadith say into account and leaving nothing out.

In short here are my defenitions;

Extreme muslim: somebody who is muslim all the time. (a mu'min)

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

Foysol89 wrote:

IMO we should all aim to be extremists when it comes to Islam and being a muslim. Extreme meaning we should all be extremely kind, extremely helpful, extremely just etc.

So we should aim to be the best muslims we can, taking everything the Qur'an and Hadith say into account and leaving nothing out.

In short here are my defenitions;

Extreme muslim: somebody who is muslim all the time. (a mu'min)

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

Alright, well then Be sure to make it clear to the police if you're ever arrested just how much you are an extremist Muslim.

Foysol89 wrote:

IMO we should all aim to be extremists when it comes to Islam and being a muslim. Extreme meaning we should all be extremely kind, extremely helpful, extremely just etc.

I don't why but this always makes me cringe when someone says that.

Foysol89 wrote:

So we should aim to be the best muslims we can, taking everything the Qur'an and Hadith say into account and leaving nothing out.

In short here are my defenitions;

Extreme muslim: somebody who is muslim all the time. (a mu'min)

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

I disagree with your definition of extreme and moderate. The Prophet said:

"Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded." (Sahih Bukhari)

Also, "Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately... Always adopt a middle, moderate, regular course, whereby you will reach your target (of paradise)." (Sahih Bukhari)

A Muslim is someone who utters the shahada and a person becomes a Mu'min when faith enters their heart.

Your definition of a moderate Muslim doesn't even make sense, a person either fully practices Islam or they don't. That doesn't make them moderate or extreme. IMO an extreme Muslim is someone who over does things and a moderate Muslim is someone who has found a balance.

Like i said "somebody who takes the Qur'an and hadith into account" so IMO somebody who overdoes things is not taking the hadith into account. So therefore they are not being extremely muslim are they?

To be an 'extreme' muslim you have to take all the fundamentals of Qur'an and hadith into account. That is as the hadith says taking the middle path, looking to perfect yourself, that is being an extreme muslim.

In other words being a MUSLIM

These two terms extreme and moderate IMO are just ways of labelling people and splitting the ummah, the old divide and conquer strategy.

I was merely clarifying to those people who think extremists are muslims who take Islam too seriously and blow up people that it's a contradiction. No extreme muslims would believe in the killing of innocents etc. That's anti Islam

May Allah guide us all. Ameen

Foysol89 wrote:

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

Funny.

s.b.f wrote:

Foysol89 wrote:

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

Funny.

I actually think there's no such thing as a moderate muslim but that's what comes to my head whenever anyone mentions it.

Foysol89 wrote:

s.b.f wrote:

Foysol89 wrote:

Moderate muslim: somebody who is muslim sometimes, special occasions maybe. Eid, Ramadhan etc.

Funny.

I actually think there's no such thing as a moderate muslim but that's what comes to my head whenever anyone mentions it.

I have a different version of a moderate muslim in my head.

i kind of agree with foysol in that we should reject the western terminology of "extreme" and "moderate". The west have concocted the language for their ideological warfare, and it does nothing but create tensions amongst muslims and even muslims and non muslims. There is no such thing as a moderate muslim, you either are a fully committed muslim or you're a disbeliever.

Also just uttering the shahadah and believing it in the heart is not enough in islam, it needs to be backed up with actions, especially the obligatory actions at the very least.

I wouldn't want to use the term disbelievers use, so i wouldn't say i'm extreme, i'd rather say i am a fully practicing muslim, now if that means i'm an extremist according to non muslims thats their opinion i don't really care for it, and i'm sure most muslims don't. It's laughable that disbelievers can claim to teach us our own religion by thinking up some new jargon then forcing it down our throats like it is the absolute truth, when its actually nothing but falsehood. Allah defines what is extreme and moderate not disbelievers.

This reminds me of that hadith, i'm sure someone can dig it out please? The one where a man asks about the sort of worship our nabi (Saw) does. 1 man says well i pray all day and night without rest, the other said he fasts without breaking the fast continuously. But our prophet said he prays but has time for other things, he fasts and breaks his fast. Point being moderation.

That thing foysol said about moderate muslims sometimes observing certain islamic practices i.e Eid, Ramadhan, prayers on special nights or fridays only. Most the muslims i've grown up around were like that, me included my excuse i didn't know any better. But as far as Allah is concerned from the age of maturity i should have known better, and thats what i believe. According to a lot of scholars those individuals would be either grave sinners or kaffirs, that would be dependent on which scholar you believe has the stronger evidence. I follow those scholars that say muslims who dont perform salat on a daily basis are not muslims at all, because our prophet said the difference between us and them is salat. yes sounds radical but not extreme at all.

ok since i wear the niqab i will put it down your throats a bit more as an example.sorry..lol. why does the western media paint the niqab and or jilbab as something extreme? Yet when they decide to do some serious reporting they say its a "conservative interpretation of islam", which is more respectful and even accepting its a part of islam. It's dependent on their aim surely?. if the news story is aiming to create hysteria and fear they will say the niqab is extreme clothing, they won't even mention it has a place in islam. But if the aim is to educate and reduce negative perceptions then the evidences seem to magically appear. But again they will never use the word niqab and moderate because that would be admitting it has a place in islam now that just wouldn't do!. Lets just use the word "conservative" instead. It sounds respectful but it gives an air of being an outdated dress reserved only for the elite backward few who think they're holier than other muslims. Doesn't that paint an extreme picture of the west, the lengths they're going to to demonise islam, new dictionary needed. Islamist is another laughable word, i guess the Americans took a few nights at their oval table to think that one up too? What about the UK governments offering COBRA more like blackadder?..lol I'm sure they pay people to brain storm these words, but they claim that it was just thought up with a blink of an eye..yer right!

I agree with everything Hajjar has said but would just like to point out what i think Noor was trying to say.

Allah(swt) has said that anybody who has said the shahadat and truly believes that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is his last and final messenger, then he/she shall enter Jannah. Some may have to serve their time in Jahannam for their actions but their soul will eventually enter Jannah.

That's what i've heard anyway.

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

I guess non-muslims use those terms when refering to the level of practise of a muslim, but like mentioned in the above posts, Islam has more an all or nothing approach and using those labels gives the idea that you can pick and choose ur acts of belief when this isnt the case. But I wouldnt want to label anyone by these terms anyway, because no-one is born a perfect muslim and it takes time for people to better themselves in their practise of Islam, so a term that may apply to them today may not apply to them tomorrow.

and lol! @ ur username Jim Bob

Foysol89 wrote:

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

Yeah right, we'll see.

Foysol89 wrote:

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

Extremism is not allowed. The prophet urged "wasatiyyah" - centralism, or moderation.

The people who bash "moderatism" or being moderate rarely realise that they are acting against sunnah and attacking a sunnah principle.

and I would use the word extremist where it applies, because it has a context and people fit it often enough.

You wrote:

Foysol89 wrote:

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

Extremism is not allowed. The prophet urged "wasatiyyah" - centralism, or moderation.

The people who bash "moderatism" or being moderate rarely realise that they are acting against sunnah and attacking a sunnah principle.

and I would use the word extremist where it applies, because it has a context and people fit it often enough.

I think Jim Bob means practising to the best of ur ability and striving to become the best muslim u can be when he uses the word extreme.

I know what he means, but that is a phrasing straight out of the al muhajiroon playbook.

bilan wrote:

You wrote:

Foysol89 wrote:

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

Extremism is not allowed. The prophet urged "wasatiyyah" - centralism, or moderation.

The people who bash "moderatism" or being moderate rarely realise that they are acting against sunnah and attacking a sunnah principle.

and I would use the word extremist where it applies, because it has a context and people fit it often enough.

I think Jim Bob means practising to the best of ur ability and striving to become the best muslim u can be when he uses the word extreme.

You can't just DECIDE something will mean something other to the current usage and expect it to be taken as such. 'Extremist Muslim' already means something significant, whatever anyone wants to take it to mean, even if there view is a more accurate one. And being ExtremeLY Muslim and AN ExtremIST Muslim are pretty distinct I would say.

plus one.

whateverrrr......in that case exremist muslim doesn't make any sense, contradiction

i know not of any al muhajirun playbook.

they say if you believe in sharia law you are an extremist so....wouldn't that make me an extremis according to them (this is what Hilary clinton said in her US defenition of an extremist)

I think you're confused Foysol.

You wrote:

Foysol89 wrote:

@Rawr i will gladly call myself an eXTREMIST that's actually my what i call myself on XBOX

Extremism is not allowed. The prophet urged "wasatiyyah" - centralism, or moderation.

The people who bash "moderatism" or being moderate rarely realise that they are acting against sunnah and attacking a sunnah principle.

and I would use the word extremist where it applies, because it has a context and people fit it often enough.

Foysol89 said:

Like i said "somebody who takes the Qur'an and hadith into account" so IMO somebody who overdoes things is not taking the hadith into account. So therefore they are not being extremely muslim are they?

Noor wrote:

I think you're confused Foysol.

i'm really not, just misunderstood as usual :/

Foysol89 wrote:

Noor wrote:

I think you're confused Foysol.

i'm really not, just misunderstood as usual :/

Okay well I've just decided the word 'misunderstood' means 'confused'
so you just said you were confused.

lets not get mean...

an extremist muslim according to the west would be what Foysol is talking about..and most if not all practising muslims would fall into that category.

then there's the muslim "extremist muslim" definition. and this is what You and Noor are talking about.

the MUSLIM "extremist muslim" (MeM) is something that we shouldnt go near. coz ISlam isabout the middle path.

an example of extremism i heard in a talk. which is also a way shytaan uses...

you start with making wudu. you an wash each part 1,2 or 3 times right?
then you tell yourself..ahh..but i dont feel clean..so i'll do it 5 times, just to make sure.
then you tell yourself..ahh..but water is free, i'll take a shower everytime.

actually, just listen to the Shaykh himself. from around 25.14mins. starts with "what is the cause of this imbalance"

I just want to add that extremism is not linked to a specific sect or group, but generally people who are not brought up in an environment where they get educated in Islam and then they become interested when in late teens or early 20's are more susceptible to it as they have nothing to balance them.

Lilly wrote:

an extremist muslim according to the west would be what Foysol is talking about..and most if not all practising muslims would fall into that category.

No. Are you willing to explode yourself and innocent people to make a point supposedly on behalf of the ummah? Do you support those who do? Are you prepared to riot so that the law silences views objectionable to your faith? If you are not then you are probably not one of those Muslims who posits that Islam is at odds with the rest of humanity, and most "Westerners" would be satisfied that you do not meet the definition of extremist. Stop smearing "Westerners".

If you do believe that in fact the White House and Western institutions simply have it in for Islam then you are basically supporting the extremist position, hence Admin's reference to the Al Muhajiroun playbook. By insisting on your own definitions whereby most Muslims are lumped in with the real extremists you stymie efforts by moderate Muslims, which is to say decent people who are pious Muslims, to advance Islam as a force for enlightenment.

To my mind I am on the side of the moderate Muslim, who is the Muslim that is horrified to be considered an extremist and is not hostile to their non-Muslim or less religious neighbours. When I talk politics in the real world I do my utmost to ensure that the position of the moderate is defined that way and given credit. That does not mean I am defining Islam for anyone; for the undiscerning there is a question of whether to believe Hamza Yusuf, Al Qaeda or those Muslims who like yourself dismiss the distinction. For anyone else those are three real and distinct positions and it should be borne in mind that the latter two will lie about it and claim that if you are not with them you are not Muslim.

NB For the benefit of anyone new to these forums I am not a Muslim, but a hopefully peace-making Jew.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

I don't think the words 'extremist' should be used for terrorists etc as they aren't even doing acting upon Islam. It's wrong, they're wrong so it shouldn't be linked to Islam :/

+1

Foysol89 wrote:

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

I don't think the words 'extremist' should be used for terrorists etc as they aren't even doing acting upon Islam. It's wrong, they're wrong so it shouldn't be linked to Islam :/

+1

Tell the guys making conspiracy videos and suicide messages and all the people who justify their riots in the name of Islamic unity, who demand that I conflate you with them, that you are not one of them. Tell anyone who feels any sympathy for those guys at every single opportunity.

i wasnt talking about terrorism. no i wasnt.

i was talking about the more day to day stuff like praying on time, wearing very lose clothing, not shaking hands with opposite sex, not shaving for a job, not going to a party because they are serving alcohol/playing music.

that is what i was talking about.

i should have clarified.

i apologize for the misunderstanding.

just to make things clear, this is not the end of my reply to your long post Joie de Vivre. It's just a clarification.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

I don't think the words 'extremist' should be used for terrorists etc as they aren't even doing acting upon Islam. It's wrong, they're wrong so it shouldn't be linked to Islam :/

They are extremist but shouldn't be called Muslim extremist as what they believe in takes them out the fold of Islam.