Something I read from another forum:
Another flaw of Islam. You seem to need a couple of PhDs from an Islamic university in Saudi Arabia and the title of 'scholar' to make any informed decision on anything. Otherwise, continue to follow the crowd and be a sheep and follow everything some sheikh thousands of miles away with no grip on reality says.
It's especially ironic from a religion that claims to be for all mankind. LOL. You mean, it's only for the educated scholars who have the 'authority' to interpret stuff. Everyone else should keep their mouths shut and obey sheikh.
I know people say that we can interpret stuff for ourselves but we still need the education otherwise we might interpret it wrong, so really anyone can't think for themselves and it isn't accessible to everyone? Hence the need of Shaykhs, madhabs, etc?
(Actually, yesterday I was thinking about salafis and how they dont believe in madhabs and that it can kinda dangerous to kinda interpret things yourself etc?)
Ok, so what do you think about this? How would you respond to the quoted bit?
A person who is educated, one who is a scholar, can only make interpretations, why? Well if a person who doesnt have much knowledge on a subject, i.e. Islam, how are they to make decisions on them?
said (im just making this up) to kill all non-muslims, they would assume such and go and start killing non muslims, okay bad example it's not like people will go and randomly start killing everyone but you get my gist?
Like for example, these days they have all these talent shows, lets say music, right? Now the judges, are they ANYONE? or are they people who are experts on music? Argh, let me try not to mess this explanation up and make everyone confused.
So if a person not so knowledgable about Islam were to read that the Prophet
So thats why people who are educated, scholars, who know the religion thoroughly can make decisions as they would understand WHY and WHERE, and WHEN he said it. like if we were to use the killing non muslim one, why, when and where did he say it? Maybe they were at a battle or something and he said it, as an order fpr them to start fighting. I dunno.
I just re-read my first comment and don't think it was clear what I was actually asking.
I agree, the educated are best fit to interpret things
but
then that means everyone can't access the teachings, easily, and they should be able to, shouldn't they?
Wait I still probably don't make any sense, I'm tired :/
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Islam has no limits on education and anyone can get educated.
Anyone can also read the sources to learn from them - the qur'an is a book to be read.
But a cursory or casual look at only parts of the sources will leave a person without full knowledge or not get all the nuances, so it is good to sometimes refer to more educated people.
Just like if you get a cold, you may just buy some random anti cold/flu medicine, but when you are seriously,ill, you go to a doctor, someone who will hopefully have studied medicine deeply in some antiquated institution and may even be slightly out of touch with how you think.
That is no bad thing.
With islam, you don't always need a scholar - but it can be the preferred way because they will have researched the matter more deeply and they should be in touch enough to deal with you on your level.
It is kind of ironic that someone tries to suggest that Islam is exclusivist because it relies on scholars etc, when it was the other religions who would even sometimes ban the plebs from reading their source material, suggesting that that was only for their priests to read.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
plus scholars, who spend their whole lives studying whatever it is they are expert at. will always know more than the "normal crowd" people. thats just obvious and logical...
and salafis dont interpret stuff by themselves... they just dont follow a particular madhab blindly. that is ALL.
they do not NOT follow a madhab.
they do not condemn following madhab
they say, you shouldnt follow blindly everything. or start acting like other people are wrong etc..
they say. you should follow the Quran (Allah) the prophet, the sahabas, the tabi'een, the tabi' tabi'een etc... the pious predecessors. also known as the Salaf.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
I'm not against scholars. Just making that clear, in case it wasn't
(I think Admin's the only one who's actually touched on the point I was on about.)
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Surely no-one advocates following anything blindly?
I don't think you'd catch a sunni going 'Oh yeah, we're always following Madhabs blindly'
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
yeh I was going to say that but i couldn't be bothered to go into it
Madhabs aren't about following blindly. Salafis believe you should follow the sahabas etc but you couldn't possibly do that on your own (imo...obvs) madhabs make it easier and show you how to follow them and I thought everyone thinks all madhabs are right - so one thinks "others are wrong"
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Do Sunnis not do that then?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Yeh they do - Like I said madhabs make it easier and show you how to follow the Prophet (saw), the sahabas and tabieen.
I was just referring back to Lilly as she said Salafis believe in following them.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
in reply to the quote: i would say if you had suspected angina would you visit the doctor or let your kid nephew use his ELC doctors kit on you? I would visit the doctor, the person spewing that rubbish would obviously go with the kids diagnosis, who's health would prosper?
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
as Rawr said, all muslims do that. but you didnt mention how Salafis do it. yet you mentionned how people who follow madhabs do it. not fair.
We follow ALL Imaams, and YES that does include Imaam Ahmad, Imaam Abu Hanifa, Imaam Shafi'i and Imaam Ibn Hanbal.
and if you dont follow blindly ONE particular person, then you're a Salafi. coz Salafi = people who follow the Salaf
Salaf = pious predecessors aka: the prophet (pbuh) the sahabah the tabi'een, the tabi tabi'een
just like someone from Sudan is called SudanI. someone who follows the salaf are called SalafI(s). no big scary meaning behind it...
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
I disagree with your definition.
All Muslims (well most) are salafi, everyone follows the sahaba, tabieen and taba tabieen. If you want to take the term salafi literally then everyone is a salafi.
Whether you follow one school of thought or not, that doesn't determine whether you are a salafi or not.
What does?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
- Don't see how the religion is to blame for anything of that stuff, so not a flaw of Islam.
- I like the last sentence. Think it's true in general although I know it's good and okay to question. Just need to find the right people for that stuff.
- Not knowledgeable about any of the middle waffle so not commenting on that.
Like i said all Muslims are salafi... we all follow the first 3 generations.
People confuse wahabi with salafi.
Hello fellow salafi.
all groups may have the same aim and ideals, but they will acquire their own flavour over time - all muslim groups aim to follow Islam to the best and fullest degree, but they are not all the same and different grups have been given different names.
Not a bad thing, because apart from a core set of beliefs people are allowed to travel slightly divergent paths.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
My teacher said one cannot be called a scholar until he has studied well over 100,000 books and more.
Reading a few hundered books doesn't make a person a scholar. In order to become a figure of authority you need to have studied Islam thoroughly.
i dont get how you disagree with me. please explain a bit more so i can get it.
i never personally met a wahabbist ever. by a wahabi do you mean someone who follows Ibn Wahab? and what about him do they follow exactly?
so what do you call someone who does adhere to any madhab?
as i said, everyone is a salafi, but then some people would rather be hanafis or shafi'is etc.. than just calling themselves salafis.
i dont think there's anythign wrong with my definition though...
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
o.O
Just a question, can one be a non-believer but has studied Islam thoroughly be somewhat called a Scholar?
No you said
What if you don't want to take it literally?
And Are people actually saying that there's no such thing as something distinct that is Salafi? Cos hello people, whether or not there should be, there blatantly IS. And when people ask what makes them distinct, they're obv talking about what we take modern day Salafis to be like.
And aren't salafis and wahabis quite connected?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
wouaw...someone need to tell me what the "unliteral" meaning of salafi is please.
and Rawr who are those so called "scary salafis"?? what do they do?!
what IS the difference between a salafi and a wahabi? i swear wahabi was just a pejorative term to describe a salafi.
btw...there are black sheeps everywhere... I would definatly call myself a salafi.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
do you think a non-believer that has studied as much as Noor says to become a "scholar" STAY a disbeliever? i think after reading 100000 books i'd be convinced...let alone STUDY 100000 books.
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Wtf, I never called anyone that?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
Yes.
No offence Lilly, really hate these type answers.
-
That is up to you but the literal meaning is what i have said.
People have connected the two terms, IMO they are different. Wahabis stem from Abdul Wahab and salafis, well like i said everyone is a salafi. But talking about the modern use many think salafis are the only ones who strictly adhere to the sunnah as they only follow the first 3 generations... but i don't see how that can be as the 4 Imams were from that time.
You said:
You have contradicted yourself there.
Salafi is just a label.
If we are going with labels you can follow a madhab and be a salafi at the same time because in essence they are the same thing.
No I mean if that's the literal perception, what would the alternative be?! You pointing out thats the literalist take implies there's some other one as well?
So what, are you trying to say; that there is NO difference between salafis and sunnis? So in your view, they're not different sects?
#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #
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