A police officer in toronto was giving a talk to students about how to avoid harassment,he said: "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/04/03/slut-walk-toronto...
This sparked anger as you can imagine, it led to a student "slut walk" in protest. What sane person would join a slut walk anyway? eugh!
So do you think women should accept that they are "responsible" for the way they dress, and the reaction it will cause when they go out during the day or evening.?
Is it justifiable for women to say well you can get attacked whether you're old or young, dressed conservatively or skimpy?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think every individual is responsible for the way they dress and carry themselves in public and private, regardless of gender. But as this topic relates to the safety of women in the public domain, then i would say dress does matter. It goes without saying that a woman who dresses in a short skirt, and shows off her cleavage will invite unsavory attention from men, whereas women who are dressed more conservatively are "less" likely to get that sort of attention.
Opportunist rapists who see such girls are more likely to prey on them. But the mental cases will pray on any woman whether she is fully clad or not, and age wont be a barrier to them. To avoid the opportunists isn't it wise to dress a bit more conservatively?
I also dont get this idea that feminists are always chanting its a free society we should be allowed to wear whatever we want.We wear short skirts and low tops to feel good for ourselves not for men. That has got to be the biggest lie they tell themselves. i mean what woman sheds her clothes so that she can see her own flesh? Doesnt she see enough of her own flesh on a daily basis?
Now i'm not saying rapists arent responsible, they are criminals and are entirely responsible for the crime they commit. But at the same time if women are going out especially at night they should think about what attire they are choosing, what are their intentions for wearing it. Is it to attract the opposite gender, if so "bare" in mind that it may attract the sick perverts of society also, not just the "nice men"
I would guess that niqabis assaulted in arab lands would not be considered as "asking for it" so that applies here too (I will also suggest that there are probably more cases of assault and rape in that world than in this world.).
At the same time, context matters and if someone leads another person on and one of them goes further than the first, then both bear some responsibility.
As for the phrase "slutwalking", that is just plain stupid and no sane person with self respect should describe them selves as such.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
I agree with your thoughts on this Hajjar
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
niqabis being attacked would be rare compared with a woman in a low top and mini skirt, id be glad to bet all my life savings on that if betting were permitted.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
I think those kind would go under your 'mental cases' descriptions anyway - the ones who go for anyone.
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
Random blog link - the figures are very high, but sometimes masked by tinted glasses which suggest to the mind that "its a place full of Muslims, it will be better".
BBC News:
Mona El Tahawy suggesting a women getting sexually harrassed while performing hajj even.
Alt Muslimah mentions research that those wearing hijab were actually MORE LIKELY to be harrassed:
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
First of all noone should say it is the lady's fault that she was raped. But whether we like it or not, if a child is walking with his head down bullies will see him as an easy target. Similarly a lady who's dressing or acting provocatively or is drunk WILL be seen as an easy target by some sick perverts. Now we can winge about the so called right to dress provocatively, or we can command the right to be respected (even by ourselves). It's magazines who think that women are best for their sexiness rather than character that should be ashamed for pressuring girls to reveal more by telling them they will be valuied more. Dressing sexily is just a mask for a lack of confidence in your abilities and your true character.
I think both men and women should take responsibility and we need to become what we're really worth.
Of course even Hijabis and conservatively dressed ladies get harassed, but it seems to happen less often, that means maybe a few times in their life, whereas for others it might happen more constantly. Obviously going our alone after dark has some influence and sometimes sick people will harass you no matter, but the sad truth is the more conservatively dressed ladies will be more likely to be supported and helped by passers by.
At the end of the day it's not about blaming men or women. It's about making a choice: the "right" to dress sexily (and be objectified) in public or the right to command the respect for character and tell people that you want to be treated well and you won't let some cheap magazines define you.
Peace!
Btw, I think that'd make a great film speech! ;P
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
Not according to some links in my last post which suggest that they can be targetted MORE OFTEN.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
nice speech lampy
"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi
No, it's apparently all the man's fault for looking.
you, your figures dont give a realistic account of how the hijab protects women from mens sexual advances. i mean your figures relate to egypt alone, no other countries. But egypt does not enforce the hijab, in fact the so called scholars over there have done much to undress our sisters with their pathetic fatwas that go against the Quran and sunnah? As far as i'm aware many women wear whatever they like, it may not be as revealing as the garments here, but they are not restricted.
western media likes to quote such figures so that muslim women will think twice about wearing the hijab, its all propaganda. Sure the hijab is not full proof against every sort of attack, but at large it does protect us from being viewed as sexual objects, in comparison with other forms of clothing.
As for women being attacked during Hajj, yes i've heard of it also but the Haj area is also full of thieves too, point being there are criminals amongst the muslim ummah also, we're not immune. If the attacks in the haraam area were happenning too often i'm sure the authorities over there would do something to try and prevent it, lease i hope they would.
“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Like I said it's not a magical shield, where there are guys who make a hobby out of harassment then it doesn't matter what's worn, but in other countries (like the UK) it may be that Hijab (physical and spiritual)offers some default protection, meaning that normally people will respect you. However, there are other factors involved as well, like the area that you live in. Could it not be argued that the women who came forward in the research believed that they were wronged and they deserve better? Also there are ladies who feel more protected with Hijab on (while in front of men) and the same goes for men who wear their Hijab.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
no woman shud be raped, sumtymes its her fault but sumtymes not.
But yuo've said that no woman should be raped. Do you mean that sometimes it could have been prevented and sometimes not?
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi
i think so
In Egypt, over 80% of women wear the Hijab. In Egypt, sexual harrassment is rampant.
Rape/harrassement is a serious problem even in the UAE where many people are covered from head to toe.
Rape is about control and power - it is not so much to do with what a girl is wearing.
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/through_rapists_eyes.htm
1) “The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can be easily grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.”
True or False?
Both true and false, but more irrelevant than not. Longer hair is easier to grab; however, since 70-80% of rapists are well known to their victim and there is absolutely no known correlation between acquaintance rape and hairstyle/length the above statement is likely to give women with shorter hair a false sense of security. The first thing a rapist looks for is opportunity.
2) “The second thing men look for is clothing style. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing off.”
True or False?
False. The most common outfit of rape victims is jeans and a t-shirt or sweatshirt. It is true that some articles of clothing are easier to remove than others, but there is no data to suggest that a potential victim is at greater risk because of how she is dressed. Remember, 70-80% of assailants are known to their victim, so tactics of stranger rapists aren’t needed.
) “They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing another activity while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.”
True or False?
Both true and false. If we are only discussing stranger rape which comprises only 10-20% of all rapes, there is reliable data to support the theory that a distracted woman is a more attractive target. But, the major distraction device is the Walkman or a like appliance. The element of surprise works much more effectively if the victim is either: 1) outside alone, or, 2) alone in the safety of her own home and she cannot hear. Known assailants don’t need a distraction.
4) “Men are most likely to attack and rape in the early morning between 5-8:30 a.m.”
True or False?
False. Men are most likely to rape whenever they have the opportunity. Although, the prime hours tend to be 6 p.m.-6 a.m. or the hours of darkness: the hours of hanging-out, parties and running around.
5) “The number one place women are abducted from…attacked…are grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots and parking garages. Number three is public restrooms.”
True or False?
alse, False, and False. Very few rape victims are abducted from anywhere. Most victims are either raped in their own home (acquaintance or stranger) or the home of their assailant. Can parking lots and parking garages be dangerous? Yes, certainly; however, no rapist wants to create a public scene and he can never be sure what might happen in a public area. 70-80% of rapists are well known to their victim so have no need to stake out a public location.
6) “The thing is about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don’t have to worry about getting caught.”
True or False?
False. Very few rapists make any attempt to move a victim anywhere because the most common place for a victim to be attacked is in her own home by an acquaintance. If a rapist does attempt to move a victim, he is likely to be planning to do something far worse than raping her.
7) “Only 2% of rapists say they carried weapons because rape carries a much shorter sentence (B Felony) if there was no weapon than if there was (A Felony).”
True or False?
I seriously doubt if this plays any part in a rapist deciding to rape or not. Consider the following facts:
Only 30% of U.S. sexual assaults are ever reported to law enforcement.
So, of every 100 rapes committed in the U.S.:
32 of those 100 are reported to law enforcement
16 of those 32 results in an arrest
13 of those 16 will be prosecuted
7 of those 13 will be convicted
5 of those 7 convicted rapists will go to prison.
Of every 20 rapes committed in the U.S., only one will currently result in the rapist spending even one day in jail, let alone prison.
70-80% of rapists are well known to their victim so have no need to carry a weapon, and sadly very little concern with repercussions.
The law does not acknowledge fists and feet as deadly weapons when used during the commission of a rape, but very few victims can withstand repeated punches, stompings, head-buttings, etc. The majority of victims report having moments of fearing for their life (often times as a result of the horrible things rapists say) and desperately trying to stop his penetration of her. Rapists don’t tell their victim that they won’t hurt/kill her if she cooperates and even if they did…so what? Rape is one of the BIG FOUR (the FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice report annual violent crime rates based on murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault rates only) and if he is willfully committing rape , there’s little reason to trust anything about him, especially her own life. Who needs a weapon? Those rapists who carry lethal weapons are likely to have crimes in addition to rape on their minds.
I mean, I do agree with you MS, it's a range of factors involved. Mainly it is the lack of respect some people have for women that leads to this. Hijab or a conservative dress will sometimes shield you provided that the rapist isn't committed to hurting you, that there isn't anything about the locality or time and place that makes it a hot spot for these sick people to hang about.
It's not uncommon for the rapist to know the victim as they could befriend them slightly and then take advantage of the poor and vulnerable victim.
Really it comes down to wisdom, precautions and some luck to avoid getting harassed or raped.
“Before death takes away what you are given, give away whatever there is to give.”
Mawlana Jalal ud Din Rumi