Wow, that started off angry!

The sins of the father should not be visited upon the son - whatever ills weer done in the past in the name of the British empire, they were not done by the current government.

i have to read that who's Iftikhar?

Iftikhar wrote:

Muslim community is shocked at the honourable British prime minister's speech in Munich about multi-culturalism. The messages from the EDL in Luton and from Munich were the same. we still don't understand which 'British values' Mr. Cameron was talking about. This man is an idiot! The only core values that the British leaders have are hypocrisy and bigotry. Looking at their not-so-distant past, they looted the world, occupied lands, never gave freedom to people, never even taught them democracy, never had any elections held in the occupied countries and gave no one any freedom of speech in the occupied countries.

David Cameron is a wolf in BNP and EDL skin. He is spouting his Islamaphobic claptrap because he is a racist and a bigot. And because he is pandering to idiots in the hope of gaining a few votes from the Nazi BNP and UKIP. In his long, pathetic speech about multiculturalism, the PM never even mentioned the EDL, either.

Why does Cameron fail to speak out against the neo-nazi EDL rampaging through Luton, Harrow and other northern counties and chanting racist and Islamaphobic abuse on our streets? The timing of Mr Cameron's speech has been questioned as it came on the day of a march in Luton by the far-right English Defence League. David Cameron has done more to embolden the far-right in a single speech than anyone since Enoch Powell. I have a hard time believing this was an accident, I think it was deliberate. I hope everyone here realises just how dangerous the EDL actually is, the threat they pose to law-abiding Muslims, and to the country as a whole. The tory party is openly courting the EDL, and we should be very afraid of what this means for the country.

British society was and still does not believe in the process of Multiculturalism. It's individualism and globalisation that are undermining a strong national identity.The outcome of globalisation is Multi-culturalism. The reason multiculturalism has been failing becase the government policy has not been a multicultural policy - it has been an integration policy where all people are melted into one culture. It is the uniculture that has failed as it does not allow for respect of different cultures.

British schooling has been trying to force Muslim children to learn, speak, read and write English only so that they could become notoriously monolingual Brits. There is no arrangement for them to learn Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. They have been vicitim of racism because British schooling is the home of institutional racism and native teachers are chicken racists. A Teacher Union once called Muslim schools as Osama bin Ladden Academies. Even Baroness Warsi claimed that prejudice against Muslims is widespread and socially acceptable.

British PM has urged migrant Muslims to assimilate or in other words f...off. They must adopt British values of anti-social behaviour, binge drinking, drug addiction, teenage pregnancies and abortions, gun and knife culture and racism.

Is there a real problem with the children of migrants NOT learning English? Or is this something from the Conservative Central Command Random Policy Generator.

Highly skilled migrants from outside the EU are essential to British economy. I would have thought that 'highly skilled' meant they would have a reasonable command of the English language as do most EU workers. they have not come here to change their way of life they are here because their skills are badly needed for the economic prosperity of the British society. And the Brits who go to work in say Germany or other EU countries. How many have a good command of the language when they arrive. A few maybe but most will learn very little or none at all. It is difficult to criticise others. They send their children to English medium schools instead of local schools.
There is a difference between speaking/knowing English and English being the first language. So a Fenchman or an Italian will know English but may be speaking their language (mother tongue) at home. Their kids are unlikely to know English until they start going to school. Are these parents expected to teach their children 2 or more languages? I know the trouble getting them to speak and make logical sentences, let alone different languages. I wish people thought intelligently before they went about migrant bashing.

Perhaps English people could learn to read and write their own language as well please Dave. How about teaching the British how to speak it first can't understand half the northerners, Scottish and welsh. Native parents teach their children English. Funnily enough, every immigrant I know can speak at least some English as well as one or more other languages, whereas young English kids, who've been raised on television and hardly know how to have a conversation, can hardly master their own language, let alone anyone else's. You people love to blame everyone else, but the rot set in right here at home: it's not government's fault, it's not immigrants' fault, it's yours, for your laziness, your smugness, and your arrogance.

Migrants learn the language properly, and ultimately, can read and write it better than the English children. I would wager that many Brits would fail a language test as well. As for you can only live here if you speak the language, may I ask how many of Brits living in Spain have taken the trouble to learn the language of the country they live in? The Brits in British-themed resorts in Spain get angry when the waiters don't speak fluent English and there's no fish and chips on the menu. Aren't the British supposed to have an innate sense of irony?

How many English nationals living in SPAIN can actually speak a word of Spanish?? ....You guessed right. Not many. So what is the Prime Minister talking about?? How about a rule that British people must teach their children (correct) English? Most of the immigrants have better grammar and spelling than some of the native-born parents round here.

I am wondering if David Cameron knows anything about language learning; it appears not. Children under the age of about 10 can very easily learn a new language quickly if immersed in it (as they would be by going to school). Many migrant children born in the UK didn't speak English until they went to school. It didn't affect their education/life chances; they all went to University and now have good jobs (oh and they're bilingual). In addition, a friend who has taught in East London schools told me that if parents don't speak English perfectly they should NOT speak English to their children as then the kids start school with bad English, which has to be unlearned. If a child can speak one language (whatever it is) correctly, then they can learn a second without a problem. It is beneficial if children learned their 'mother tongue' first before English. Who cares if English isn't a first language as long as it is spoken competently? Some migrants who have been in the UK a long time may well have a different language as their first language but actually speak English better.

The whole world belongs to Muslims. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. He/she must learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for highier studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time he/she must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with his/her cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

Speaking English does not promote integration into British, American and Australian societies, and broaden opportunities. English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to English language. English language is not only a lingua franca but also lingua frankensteinia. Human right also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime.

Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

I have not read all of the above but what I would say is Multi culture has not worked
each community has its own hold on a town or area and they do not integrate with each other

you didnt have to quote the whole thing.

but you've got a good point, now why dyou think that is?

Lilly wrote:

you didnt have to quote the whole thing.

but you've got a good point, now why do you think that is?

They don't want to I guess

stopincest wrote:

Lilly wrote:

you didnt have to quote the whole thing.

but you've got a good point, now why do you think that is?

They don't want to I guess

if me or you were bothered enough to read the article, im sure we would have more to talk about...

(did you watch that programma of ultra-zionism?, if you did, there's a topic you can comment on)

Multiculturalism has not succeeded because the government policy for the past 5 or more years has not been about multicul;turalism, but about integration and uniculturalism.

Multiculturalism is the only way and that has always been the way, even before the recent immigrants migrated to the UK. Yorkshire had its own culture, lancashire its own, Birmingham its own, London its own and no one could take the freedom of the scotspeople.

For multiculturalism to work, there is only one thing that needs to be taught and that is respect. Respect for others and also respect for oneself (the latter is especially important as people from cultures with less individuals can feel inferior and feel the need to take uo alternative cultures in order to feel worthy.)

i have to admit i have not much knowledge about this.

Lilly wrote:

stopincest wrote:

Lilly wrote:

you didnt have to quote the whole thing.

but you've got a good point, now why do you think that is?

They don't want to I guess

if me or you were bothered enough to read the article, im sure we would have more to talk about...

(did you watch that programma of ultra-zionism?, if you did, there's a topic you can comment on)

I did not watch it

its on iplayer.

You wrote:

Multiculturalism has not succeeded because the government policy for the past 5 or more years has not been about multicul;turalism, but about integration and uniculturalism.

Multiculturalism is the only way and that has always been the way, even before the recent immigrants migrated to the UK. Yorkshire had its own culture, lancashire its own, Birmingham its own, London its own and no one could take the freedom of the scotspeople.

For multiculturalism to work, there is only one thing that needs to be taught and that is respect. Respect for others and also respect for oneself (the latter is especially important as people from cultures with less individuals can feel inferior and feel the need to take uo alternative cultures in order to feel worthy.)

I cant believe I’m saying this but I agree with you 100% on this Multiculturalism thing

"you butter believe it"

btw..if you hadnt realise, this is Admin. You. [insert introductionary speech about Admin] and blah blah blah..you get it dont you?

I am new here

are you sure?

im joking. yes, thats why im doing the introduction. the guy who you had such a good first conversation is the administrator. that means he can block you, delete you and make your life hell.

or...he can be real nice. but its a two way thingymagit, not sure how it works

its pretty late, so i dont make much sense.

Lilly wrote:

are you sure?

im joking. yes, thats why im doing the introduction. the guy who you had such a good first conversation is the administrator. that means he can block you, delete you and make your life hell.

or...he can be real nice. but its a two way thingymagit, not sure how it works

its pretty late, so i dont make much sense.

Have not seen his nice side yet

depends on your definition of nice.

Iftikhar wrote:

Multi-culturalism Vs Mono-culturalism

Would you characterise your post as a good example of written English?

What's wrong with the way he's written?

All of it, from the very first word (should be the). Paragraphs are not structured, containing numerous unrelated and unsupported points. Grammar and punctuation is everywhere; idioms are oddly discombobulated and senseless. A slightly different criticism is that the article repeatedly contradicts itself concerning the importance of an English education.

LOL well, I don't think he's english will ever compare to yours.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

LOL well, I don't think he's english will ever compare to yours.

That's fairly generous, I write conversationally here and there are loads of errors in my posts. Iftikhar is so bad at English I understand why he doesn't like it, writing essay after essay arguing either for an exception to the curriculum or a place in it, presenting himself as a competent educator. In this particular thread he throws in the argument that immigrants are essentially competent enough at English, even more competent than the English. Typos are one thing. A strong accent is one thing. But "David Cameron is a wolf in BNP and EDL skin" is not only an unsupportable accusation, it does not mean what it purports unless Iftikhar is a fan of the EDL and BNP and proposes that Cameron is disguising himself as a fascist so that Muslims will not know he is a wolf. What? Cameron even threw in something about Palestine, no mention of Israel, as if that would perfume the injudicious crap that constituted the rest of his speech, if Iftikhar is interested in language and politics.

I think the word is: *dumbfounded*

Joey, I'm not intending to be rude or anything, but if how you speak on here is just conversational - and I assume, (I really shouldn't do that though) more colloquial then I wouldn't be able to understand a word if you weren't. I don't think people need to be able to speak or write anywhere near as good as you because it's just not needed on a normal day. Although, fair enough you've found some (funny) errors in the post.

You know what, I don't know where this post is going so I'm going to stop there :oops:

Thank you. I'm only pointing out my own comments are very casual and imperfect, especially in Tribune, and I wouldn't go holding anyone to high standards. Just given Iftkhar's habit of writing essays about English and foreign language education in the syllabus I am curious to know if he thinks he can write.

Ok fair enough.

(what are you thanking me for? :S )

I took it you were also complimenting my writing, at least in the first comment.

I was.

But you should realise it could be a negative thing too - since you don't tone it down that much for the less sophisticated, like me, it means your posts can sound too wordy and ambiguous/confusing. :/

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

I was.

But you should realise it could be a negative thing too - since you don't tone it down that much for the less sophisticated, like me, it means your posts can sound too wordy and ambiguous/confusing. :/

I agree

I think the word is: *dumbfounded*

If I'm ever unclear please let me know. Sometimes it's best to be very precise even if that means long sentences and/or long words. At other times simplicity or even vagueness will do. You almost got me discussing sentence construction there but I'll just add, widespread failure by young Muslims to comprehend my long words doesn't bode well for Iftikhar's point.

Joie de Vivre wrote:

widespread failure by young Muslims to comprehend my long words doesn't bode well for Iftikhar's point.

:O